Forget I posted

[kteague]

M.D. Hosehead, I've done a lot of self evaluating on this subject - came up with lots of maybes, but no single silver bullet. I could write a book on my musings, but I doubt anyone would read it and I no longer need it. Sorted though a lot with the guidance of a counselor after my divorce. Personality and past can make one tend toward being a predator magnet, but some bullies are equal opportunity abusers and not afraid of a stronger challenge. For every pattern you'll find exceptions, it's too complicated, as the reasons why a person became violent and how they express their issues are factors that have to mesh with the tolerances of the abused. I guess my consolation is that the abused are usually really nice people - too nice. I'm glad to be wiser now, but I do sometimes grieve the loss of innocence. I'm still nice - I'm still me. But I pity any fool who might unsuspectingly try that crap on me again. Nuff said.

Jaylee, hope today looks better for you.

[Jaylee]

..

[chunkyfrog]

Unfortunate someone felt compelled to goad you; but I'm proud to see you have quite a bit of fight left in you.
Atta girl. If you need it; here's a big, moist froggy hug! Love you, kid.

[Jaylee]

This is why I stopped coming here. There is always someone around who wants to make you feel worse than you already did.

[SleepingUgly]

Unfortunate someone felt compelled to goad you

This is why I stopped coming here. There is always someone around who wants to make you feel worse than you already did.

Well, crap, I really hate to have to defend someone on this topic... I understand how what M.D. Hosehead said came off to you and I'm not going to defend what and how he said what he said and to whom, but I will say that I am 100% sure that he did NOT say any of this to goad you or to make you feel worse. He is just not that type of person. I am sure he will be here responding himself, but I wanted to set the record straight immediately that there is no doubt that any hurtful behavior of his was unintentional.

[-SWS]

Jaylee, I'm sorry you had such a crappy day.

You ex was a rotten guy who doesn't deserve that valuable piece of "real estate" in your mind. You own that precious "plot" of property in your mind, so start working on writing your mental eviction notice to your ex-husband now. I'm serious. Your friends here are behind you!

And I'm also positive M.D.Hosehead wasn't goading you as well---since he has never expressed anything but empathy and support on this message board. Rather he cast you in this "intelligent" light:

the number of intelligent, aware people who are victims of spouse abuse.

I think he also assumed that you are here to commiserate. And commiserating means different things to different people. I'm pretty sure he attempted to intellectualize the issue with you BECAUSE you are so intelligent. While in retrospect that approach might not have been your preferred tactic, it would have been one that I would have appreciated had I been in your shoes.

In any event, I feel your pain. Please hang tough, gal!

[SleepingUgly]

And to cheer you up, I just heard that May is National Masturbation Month! I can't believe half the month is over and no one told me, but better late than never... Let the festivities begin!!

[Jaylee]

My husband beat me and wanted me dead because I wasn't good enough. Carry on, forget I posted. I will go back to lurkdom now.

[SleepingUgly]

Why dot-delete your posts??

[Sireneh]

I'm repeatedly amazed at the number of intelligent, aware people who are victims of spouse abuse. Mostly, but not always, women. How do they get hooked up with abusers? And some of the victims make the same choice more than once.

I'm not being critical. Figuring out why they got involved with an abuser would prevent its happening again, and that bit of wisdom ought to bring some comfort.

I'm personally aware of one woman who deliberately chose to hook up with a murderer; she started corresponding with him while he was still in prison. (She was lucky to get away from him via his re-incarceration for parole violation.)

Because abusers are smart. They start by removing the self esteem and support net works. It is also known as brain washing. Humans are easily tamed and conditioned if they don't pay attention. That is how societies functions with huge under classes of people living shitty lives, it is how organized religion works, you make them think they are responsible for their victimizations. Then you get them to thank you for "looking after them" when they are such "sinners".

It's an OT thread, so I guess it's ok to continue my musings.

Granted, abusers are skilled at what they do. But that doesn't explain why some are more susceptible to victimization than others. For example, I suspect some have been physical/emotional abuse victims since childhood, so it feels "normal" to them when the little hints, such as verbal put-downs, begin. IOW, they don't recognize the first clues.

But not all abused spouses were abused children. Sometimes I'm really puzzled at intelligent, competent abuse victims. How did they get into that? The woman I mentioned above is a college graduate professional woman, like Jaylee. She got the murderer's name from a Craig's list personal, and she initiated the correspondence. I don't understand that.

I'm not blaming victims. My point is that if victims figure out why they didn't immediately recognize the first sign, that knowledge might inoculate against a repetition. And actively doing something about having been a victim is what helps victims become survivors.

As I said, just my musings.

Have by own skeletons in the closet regarding abuse as well, and there was one thing that got me started in the process of turning it around: an incident wherein my ex beat the hell out of my NEW car with a baseball bat. Later the police officer said to me, "you need to examine what it is about you that attracts this sort of person." That really blew me away because I thought it was ME who was doing the choosing, not the other way around. Once I began to think of it as some sort of message I was sending out without being aware of it, I knew I needed to change. I joined a support group for abused women and never looked back. I mean, it wasn't as easy as all that at the time, but in hindsight I can nutshell it like that.

Blackspinner is right: abusers are very, very smart. First of all, they look for women who already have an eroded sense of self-esteem. Then they shower them with gifts and put them on a pedestal and make them feel like a queen. It might begin perhaps with an incident where he showed some jealousy. It's only the beginning and in a way it's kind of nice. It's flattering. He's jealous; how sweet. See, it starts out small and it usually creeps up pretty slowly. And for me, this was someone I thought I loved and once I realized he had problems I thought I could fix him. Maybe this is like the woman who elected to hook up with a man in prison for murder. It doesn't make sense. I guess it doesn't have to. I guess you have to be there to see how it can sneak up on you until the tables are turned and, like Jaylee said, you are so inadequate that killing you is more appealing than carrying on with you still existing in the world. I don't know why these guys want us dead eventually. Maybe it's because the fight goes out of us over time and there's no fun in it anymore.

Jaylee, I didn't get to see your posts but I gathered enough from the replies to understand you've experienced something pretty horrible. I am sorry. If it helps at all, remember that your ex is a maggot. A coward. I know it's easier said than done, but keep in mind that whatever HE thought of YOU is quite irrelevant. His opinion of you is null and void. You will need time, of course, to heal, but try not to think too much of things he did or said. If I take scissors away from a two-year-old and he tells me I am bad and that he hates me, well... he's a two-year-old. I don't believe that I am bad and that I am not likeable just because he said that to me, and I'm not giving the scissors back to him, either. It's all about perspective. If someone says something about you that you KNOW isn't true, then they are the two-year-old and you needn't give it another thought. You know what I'm saying?

[idamtnboy]

My husband beat me and wanted me dead because I wasn't good enough. Carry on, forget I posted. I will go back to lurkdom now.

Jaylee, please come back. The words above are from a person deeply hurting. No one here intended to write one word demeaning of you. My first impression when I read M.D.'s comments was that of a frustrated, bewildered, question of, "Why?". Why does such a thing happen, even when the victim does not want to place themselves in the position to become a victim? Why, especially, does it happen to someone who is at the top of the academic hill? But in your case, at this time, it does not matter why. All that matters is where do you go from here? If you do not already have a minister you can talk to, find one. They do counseling to anyone, not just church members, for no charge. Maybe there is an abuse support group you can join. The church I go to has one. I hear that it is a very great help to abuse victims.

Are you by chance seeing yourself as a failure in the area of marriage relationship, a failure because you became an abuse victim? Well, if so, let me tell you one thing. Victim does not, repeat, does not, equate with failure. Are you by chance trying to reconcile being a victim with the fact you are an intelligent person? If so, that is quite normal. Years ago I tried selling mutual funds, so I had to have a securities license. I took the test at a test center in Salt Lake. I was told I achieved the highest score to date on that test. You know how many mutual fund sales I made in the next several months? None. Accomplishments in life depend on many, many, aspects of our personality and life, intelligence being only one. So, having become a victim is in no way a reflection you have fallen short intellectually. The two are not connected, although society often thinks they are.

Jaylee, you came here feeling hurt and frustrated. A natural result of that is your feelings were exceedingly touchy, far more touchy than any of us sensed. Please realize we are simply trying to reach out to you, and encourage and help you. Any hurt you felt from what has been written is 100% unintentional. I'll take it upon myself to apologize on behalf of everyone here for hurting you. So please, can you cut us some slack? I sure would appreciate it, and I'm sure the others would too. None of us is perfect, including you. Let's commiserate, and search for answers, together.

God bless you.
Idaho Mountain Boy

[Sireneh]

Well said, Mountain Boy!

[Jaylee]

Well I had a church, but when I was in the hospital they didn't check on me, and they kept letting my ex come there even though I had a restraining order, so obviously I can't go there if he is there. I don't suppose they know that he only uses them for what he can get from them, and behind their backs he says that Christians are stupid. He doesn't even believe in God. So no, I no longer have a church to go to. I felt like they should maybe have at least check up on me when I went blind and was in the hospital and after he was arrested, etc, but they didn't.

[idamtnboy]

Well I had a church, but when I was in the hospital they didn't check on me, and they kept letting my ex come there even though I had a restraining order, so obviously I can't go there if he is there. I don't suppose they know that he only uses them for what he can get from them, and behind their backs he says that Christians are stupid. He doesn't even believe in God. So no, I no longer have a church to go to. I felt like they should maybe have at least check up on me when I went blind and was in the hospital and after he was arrested, etc, but they didn't.

Please don't let the experience of that specific church set your path forever. Church equals people. Church does not equal God. Many churches (the people) fall far short in helping others. On the other hand many churches (again, people) do an outstanding job of supporting others. Rather than looking for a church by "church hopping", which takes a lot of time, ask all your friends, fellow students, coworkers, and neighbors where they go to church and to describe their church. You'll quickly sort out in your mind which sound inviting to you. Ask that person to introduce you to their minister. Their willingness and enthusiasm to do so, or lack of it, will also quickly let you know if you want to pursue that connection.

I didn't think to ask earlier, but is there a Legal Aid Society office somewhere near? They can provide you with legal counseling at no charge.

[-SWS]

...uses them for what he can get from them, and behind their backs he says that Christians are stupid. He doesn't even believe in God.

Your ex is both an abuser and user, Jaylee. Sadly, those two go hand-in-hand. Can you relate the metaphor I mentioned earlier?

I would encourage you to think of yourself as the landlord or person in charge of your mind. Right now your husband is in there as an abusive tenant. But YOU are in charge of that piece of precious real estate and not him. Your abusive husband will continue to stay in your mind unless you take control and evict him for the undeserving occupant he is. You have complete control of your mind. You can do anything with it you like. Your ex has no business occupying your mind that way. He has no control inside there unless you unfairly grant him the undeserving control he now has.

Can I suggest that you formalize a well-deserved eviction notice, Jaylee? Write an angry eviction notice. Don't spare your ex anything in that angry notice. Give him everything you've got---including cuss words because that's what he deserves. Also write a rational but especially authoritative eviction notice. Make sure the loathsome ex-husband tenant who is still in your head understands EXACTLY who is in charge of that mental real estate that YOU own and control.

Throw his sorry abusive ass right out on the street, Jaylee. And when you DO, we'll be right there with you in spirit... I sure will. Banish him to the mental streets where he belongs.