Heated hose Development

[So Well]

The one part of the physics you missed is putting the tank below the level of the bed so that any rainout runs into the tank and not into the mask. It also helps reduce the noise from the machine.

[GumbyCT]

Dealing with condensation in the hose and nasal pillow. First I appreciate all the feedback I am getting. I have developed the following for slowly ratcheting up solutions for the problem.

1) I removed the humidifier. This solved the rainout problem, but I no longer get the benefit of the humidified air.
2) Use the humidifier, but no heat. This is called passover. I have not ruled this out as at least a partial solution.
3) A hose cover seems to have merit, and they are inexpensive. I plan to order one for testing and am waiting till payday so I can order viewing software and a card reader at the same time.
4) Purchasing the reptile heater, if all of the above do not work satisfactorily. This is not expensive, less than $25 delivered. I am a little concerned about the hose melting that has been reported here.
5) I am out of ideas at this point, but I understand the both the physics of the problem and the solution. I don’t think I will have to punt or resort to shooting the beast.

Pat

OSA causes memory problems so many of us use a timer to shut the Repti heater OFF each morning in case we forget. While using a power strip is another option it also requires a memory. Everything I have is plugged into a power strip along with a nite lite/flashlight.

I found a lamp dimmer/timer at Wal*mart made by Brinks which has served me well. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a link for it anywhere online. What I like about is you can use it to reduce the amount of heat AND turn it on/off twice each nite. This is esp. useful if it gets too hot for you. Just cycle it Off then back On twice each nite.

It is the size of a small digital alarm clock and the time is visible so I can see it w/o my glasses. Also it will hold the time during a brief power outage - so if you get a blip during the nite there is no problem.

If I remember right it cost less than $20 but is worth every penny to me.

Also if you don't have a hose cover you can make one from a piece of fleece as mentioned or you can use old (or new) socks. Many say to cut the toes off but all you need is a slit in the toe for the hose to slip thru. I would use medical tape rather than twist or wire ties for any part coming in contact with my skin.

BTW - be sure to get the smaller (15W) Repti Heater cable. Just think about sticking your tongue on a 15W lite bulb if you think it won't be hot enuff.

o, oh, OH, Fisher Paykel makes a proprietary heated hose to fit their CPAP machines. Problem is it uses a tiny electrical connector in the hose which I think is a different diameter hose too. I always wondered why FP never made a heated hose to fit on their HC 150 humidifier. That would have fit any of the other cpap machines and solved many problems. Oh well, the Repti Cable was much easier. I thought there was a link in those posts for a place to order from. There is always Google

EDIT: the timer is a Brinks Model 44-1070

EDIT2: I also use it to control my HC-150 when I was getting rainout from it.

[physicsbob]

I like our bedroom cold, so I was troubled with rainout, I got a reptile heater from petsmart on line, They currently don't have them listed. However http://www.petmoutain.com does, they are listed under zoo Med Repti Heat cable. I bought the 15 watt heater but I would recommend the the 25 Watt (14.75 ft) cable used with a dimmer to reduce the power. The beginning 6 ft (from the plug) is not heated. Wrapping it around the hose keep it evenly spaced, do not cross or touch the heater with itself. To spread out the heat and attach it to the hose I used a single layer of 2 inch Aluminum foil tape, (from Home Depot), spaced every 6 inches along the hose. I topped every thing off with a suggle hose cover. To keep the hose from over heating when you are not using your cpap make sure to turn heater is off when you turn your cpap off and don't store your hose under the bed covers. I use a timer that I can set for 2,4, and 8 hours. The heat is a gentle heat, not like a water heat tape.
I have found that using my nasal pillow mask I need heat all night, but with my FFMask I set the heater for 4 hours otherwise it gets too warm on my face. I must say I really love my heated hose. For care I wash it inside once a month with mild liquid hand soap and finish with a vinegar rinse. and hang dry. This hose has lasted for over a year and a half with no discernable wear or degradation.
Bob

[el_zorro]

I needed a heated cable for cold air (sleeping outside and in non heated cabins up north) so I dont get hypothermia in the winter. My PR system 1 heated humidifier takes care of rainout during normal circumstances but I needed to operate in extreme conditions.
I want to report simple and great success with my Repti Heated cable set up that I learned about from this and other cpap forums. Here is what I ordered:
1.) Repti Heated cable 7 feet (15W)
2.) Repti Rheostat (150W)
3.) Hose huggie with velcro straps on the ends.

I ran the heated cable through the hose huggie first then ran the hose through the huggie. I used the velco to make sure the cable stays in place and is firmly attached to the ends of the cable.

I discovered you dont need to tightly wrap the cable around the hose, the cable produces enough heat (even on low) to heat the hose inside the huggie. I had heard reports of melted hose, maybe wrapping and taping was part of the problem. I think the rheostat is a must also because even on low this 15W cable heats up pretty hot to the touch.

I slept a couple of nights at 50 degrees F with nice warm air in the hose and zero rainout. I will be going lower soon (we have had a mild autumn in the upper midwest) and will report back if I need to turn the rheostat higher than low.

[DHC]

I just wanted to add my 'vote' to this topic. I purchased the Zoo Med Repti Heat Cable from PetMountain:



http://www.petmountain.com/show_product/11442-507320

Along with one of the SunggleHose covers from CPAP.com:



https://www.cpap.com/productpage/snuggl ... cover.html

AND, a timer from Lowes:



http://www.lowes.com/pd_148297-207-TM01 ... tt%3Dtimer



Following physicsbob's suggestion, I used metal duct tape to attach the heating cord to the hose in about 4 locations:



http://www.lowes.com/pd_237722-56131-14 ... tal%2Btape



The timer is set to begin heating about the 'normal' time I turn on the CPAP, and to shut off an hour before I normally wake.

It works great. If anything, the heated air through the hose may be slightly warmer than I would prefer, and if that continues I will get one of the Repti Rheostats mentioned by el_zorro:



http://www.petmountain.com/product/rept ... ostat.html

So far, I like this heated hose system really well.

[FoxNewsFan]

I only wish the best for all my fellow forum members but I am very worried about people trying to heat their own hose.

I remember when I was in Fire School, my Hazmat instructer standing up there and saying that the fumes from things such as burning plastic were a lot more dangerous and will kill you a lot quicker than the fire itself.

Take care.

Ed

[el_zorro]

DHCs message puts it together in nice package and all can be had for around $35 with a Repti heat solution. I wanted to report back how well this worked when I was sleeping in a 35-50 degree F sun room/patio while deer hunting. I used an electric blanket for heat while sleeping and the Repti heater with a hose snuggie. I had the Rheostat set between low and medium even on the coldest nights. I was amazed at how much warmer I was breathing warm air compared to being covered with the electric blanket but still breathing cold air. With my PR S1 humidifier I had zero rain out in these difficult conditions. During more normal circumstances like sleeping in a 60-70 degree house, probably the lowest setting would be sufficient. For those of you who dont want to pay for more expensive Aussie heated, this is a good solution. I did not experience any kind of fumes and after a week of use, I inspected the hose and there were no signs of melting.

[el_zorro]

I only wish the best for all my fellow forum members but I am very worried about people trying to heat their own hose.

I remember when I was in Fire School, my Hazmat instructer standing up there and saying that the fumes from things such as burning plastic were a lot more dangerous and will kill you a lot quicker than the fire itself.

Take care.

Ed

Ed, two questions for you.
1.) What makes you think that this solution causes the plastic to burn ? 15W of power is not going to cause a plastic hose to burn. If you dont use the Rheostat, there could be some fumes, thats why the Rheostat is an important part of this solution. Less than 15W of power is needed to heat a 6 foot hose, if a 5W heated cable was available this would be better. The plastic from your humidifier tank could also cause fumes, do you worry about that or try to panic members of the board to not use heated heated humidification ?
2.) Does the aussie heated hose or the new S9 heated hose contain plastic ? Why arent you panicking people over these solutions bursting into flames also ?

[Big S]

I would really hate to present some of this stuff to a human use review committee. If a heated hose is too expensive then a hose cover or hose routing under the blanket should be used.

[Velbor]

While touching your tongue to a 15 watt bulb is an impressive image, it has little relevance to the Repti Heater environment. Here we are (or should be) carefully spiral-wrapping the heater wire along 6 feet of tubing, providing not a point source of heat, but rather 2.5 watts per foot, or 0.21 watts per inch.

Reports of melting problems seem to have fallen into three categories: 1) excessive wattage, for which a dimmer switch solves the problem nicely, 2) overlapping heating wire, creating a high-temperature point source, which can be prevented with tape as suggested above, or with plastic cable ties, and 3) turning off the airflow. This last is a major concern, since as long as air is flowing, it will carry heat away. Not only do you need to turn off the Repti Heater in the morning, but it should also be turned off any time you get up at night and turn off the CPAP blower. With reasonable precautions, the Repti Heater, particularly when swaddled in a hose cover, is an effective solution. As, of course, is the "Aussie Heated Hose."

Simpler is not always better. The high-end solution is a stand-alone Fisher & Paykel humidifier such as the HC-500 or the MR-720 or MR-730 (or less commonly, other 400- or 600- series or 800- series F&P models, or a similar ConchaTherm unit), designed for home-ventilator or hospital acute care use. These use a heater wire threaded INSIDE the hose (or sometimes with the heating element built into the hose wall), all controlled by two thermocouples, one at the humidifier end of the hose, and one at the mask end of the hose. You set the temperature of the air you want to breathe, and depending on the unit, can also set the temperature gradient between the two ends of the tubing. (Even with these, you have to turn the unit off if you get up at night, or high-temperature alarms start going off because air is not moving.)

These units are often available on eBay, but prices have gone up lately, and you need to know what you're getting - you need to have all necessary parts before any of it is useful: the humidifier controller, the heater plug-in, the right heater connector to the tubing wiring, the thermocouple probe, a heated tube that is compatible with the system, and perhaps some tubing adapters. Unfortunately, the attachments are becoming harder to find online. Aspects of this system were integrated into the ResMed S9 climate control tubing. But if you can find what you need, at reasonable price (ideally under $100), you have the best of all worlds.

Velbor

[GumbyCT]

Here we are (or should be) carefully spiral-wrapping the heater wire along 6 feet of tubing, providing not a point source of heat, but rather 2.5 watts per foot, or 0.21 watts per inch.

You have less chance of the wire overlapping and causing problems if you don't spiral-wrap but just run the wire straight. When straight, the chance of wire overlap drops to zero. At least that's how I did mine. Plus the heated part of the 15W repti cable isn't all that long to begin with.

[Velbor]

You have less chance of the wire overlapping and causing problems if you don't spiral-wrap but just run the wire straight. When straight, the chance of wire overlap drops to zero. At least that's how I did mine. Plus the heated part of the 15W repti cable isn't all that long to begin with.

Quite right. I had ended up deciding to prototype using the 25 watt Repti heater, with a lamp-dimmer rheostat/switch. Experimentation led me to set the dimmer typically at about 80 volts (for both temperature comfort and anti-rainout effectiveness), which (assuming a roughly linear voltage / heat relationship) works out to about 18 watts output. The one theoretical advantage of a longer cable and spiral winding is a more even transfer of heat into the airflow. Cable ties keep the spiraling reliably secure, but as you suggest, the 15 watt cable, straight, inside a cover, without the bother of a rheostat, should be quite adequate. I once before put up a photo of my current version:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40597&p=355307#p355307

Many thanks, Velbor

[GumbyCT]

I like this Brinks Model 44-1070 Timer/Dimmer and wouldn't be without one now.

There is also a timer made by Brinks which has a dimmer. I have not been able to find a link online but found my dimmer/timer at Walmart, in the aisle with the extention cords.

To me a timer is a MUST with this Repti Heater cable to avoid leaving it ON after leaving the house. It has two On/Off time settings plus the dimmer thingy.

Right now I am using both settings to turn my HC150 ON/off to avoid the rainout. I love it for pre-warming the HC150 too.

The other nice thing is it has the time on it and it doesn't take up much room.

I wanted to do a separate post on this but was unable to find a link to it. It's a Brinks Model 44-1070.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27579&p=474216&hili ... er#p474216

[physicsbob]

I am currently working on a new mod update to my Reptile heater, I am taking a electronic seven day furnace thermostat, and removing the temperature thermistor from it to place inside the mask side end of my hose. I am going to run the wires back to the thermostat. For the power side I am connecting the furnace side of the thermostat to a solid state power relay, ( I don't want to hear the clicking of a normal relay). and then power a 15 foot reptile heater. I am going for a slightly more powerful heater so I can have the thermostat cycle enough to set the temperature that I want. I then can set the thermostat time to warm up and cool down my hose to my preferences. So in-essence I will have my own homemade climate hose
I am hoping to have it working before Xmas, I will post an update, hopefully with pictures as soon as I get everything working

Bob

[el_zorro]

I am currently working on a new mod update to my Reptile heater, I am taking a electronic seven day furnace thermostat, and removing the temperature thermistor from it to place inside the mask side end of my hose. I am going to run the wires back to the thermostat. For the power side I am connecting the furnace side of the thermostat to a solid state power relay, ( I don't want to hear the clicking of a normal relay). and then power a 15 foot reptile heater. I am going for a slightly more powerful heater so I can have the thermostat cycle enough to set the temperature that I want. I then can set the thermostat time to warm up and cool down my hose to my preferences. So in-essence I will have my own homemade climate hose
I am hoping to have it working before Xmas, I will post an update, hopefully with pictures as soon as I get everything working

Bob

Cool stuff. This is innovation.