Question re Selling on CPAP Auction

[plr66]

Great suggestions, torontoCPAPguy! Thanks so much for your time and detail. I've learned a lot, and keep revising my auction use these ideas.

[torontoCPAPguy]

Well, I guess that we can all guess that the transaction I messed up on is a sale to xxxx at this point. Somehow I managed to mess up on the email confirmation (although I have no idea how and PayPal should have sent an automatic confirmation) and I got distracted by a work emergency and did not get the package out until Day 2 (we missed the cutoff at the local postal outlet). When selling, one must be very clear on their terms and state them in the listing and in the confirmation email. I was lulled into a sense of well-being as my eBay transactions were handled by Auction Wizard 2000 and PayPal - I had hoped that my first transactions on cpapauctions would have gone smoothly but I should have paid closer attention. Like I say, I was distracted by a work super emergency that took me away for a day and a bit.

Nontheless, since the transaction is out in the open I would offer a public apology to xxxx for the failure to communicate (a) receipt of payment (it should also have been generated automatically by PayPal) and (b) shipping information as I normally would do (and again, it should have been generated automatically by the post office); and for the delay in getting the package out until day 2 (totally my fault). I would have hoped that my private apologies and tracking information would have sufficed - it was not my intention to ignore you and I am still scratching my head here as to how I got myself into this 'fine kettle of fish'. So, again, apologies and I would hope that you would take them in the manner in which they are given and cut me some slack here.

I trust that you have received tracking information via PM, Email, PayPal and Post Office at this point and you should continue to receive automatic tracking information from the post office as your package makes its way to you.

[plr66]

I am still scratching my head here as to how I got myself into this 'fine kettle of fish'. So, again, apologies and I would hope that you would take them in the manner in which they are given and cut me some slack here.

I trust that you have received tracking information via PM, Email, PayPal and Post Office at this point and you should continue to receive automatic tracking information from the post office as your package makes its way to you.

torontoCPAPguy, this is exactly why I have posted this thread. I see no need for dtsm to try to destroy you for this if you have made efforts to reconcile the mess by PM. But I would like to know how to avoid things going wrong like this since I'm new to selling anything here. When you or others are able to sort out how or why these things happen, please do explain here in detail.

[torontoCPAPguy]

I am still scratching my head here as to how I got myself into this 'fine kettle of fish'. So, again, apologies and I would hope that you would take them in the manner in which they are given and cut me some slack here.

I trust that you have received tracking information via PM, Email, PayPal and Post Office at this point and you should continue to receive automatic tracking information from the post office as your package makes its way to you.

torontoCPAPguy, this is exactly why I have posted this thread. I see no need for xxxx to try to destroy you for this if you have made efforts to reconcile the mess by PM. But I would like to know how to avoid things going wrong like this since I'm new to selling anything here. When you or others are able to sort out how or why these things happen, please do explain here in detail.

plr66: There really is no explanation for why the buyer would continue to claim "non-delivery of goods" on PayPal but you need to understand that PayPal will tie up your funds until either the buyer or YOU escalate the buyer's dispute, right or wrong, into a 'CLAIM' with PayPal as I did just a few hours ago in order to get them involved. The buyer has been ignoring all of MY pm's, emails, PayPal responses, etc., and has refused to discontinue the dispute, this despite having shipping information, having had the shipping/handling waived on a second item purchased (and part of his dispute), having had a favor done in selecting the equipment purchased, having the postal service send tracking updates as they happen, etc., etc. One can only smell a "dead fish" where there is one and tomorrow morning I will be forced to take action to protect my interests. In several hundred transactions, this happens very, very seldom. Generally, the US Postal Service and perhaps even the FBI will investigate such a situation. And incredibly, the US Postal Service actually has bigger teeth than the FBI when it comes to postal fraud. There is, of course, no reason that the buyer should continue a dispute registered for "non-delivery" especially when such a dispute is registered only two or three working days after making payment. But it happens and you need to be aware that there are unscrupulous buyers out there (as there are unscrupulous vendors).

In terms of what YOU can do to best protect your interests in taking payments? Well, your best bet is really to visit the PayPal website and look at their info on seller security/protection. This claim of non-delivery is, obviously, outlandish and generally PayPal will see that for what it is. But allowing PayPal to simply reverse a wrong does not stop the buyer from continuing to do the same to others and as an upstanding citizen it is our responsibility to ensure that the action does not continue in future. So, even if PayPal takes the right action and cancels the dispute, the right thing to do to protect the community is to advise the Postal Service and the FBI, both of whom are very keen on addressing mail fraud and wire fraud.

In this case, it boggles my mind that the buyer would continue a dispute that goods were not delivered as you can well imagine. It makes no sense.

And like I said in my earlier posts, always state your terms up front (my mistake) - my terms and conditions always stated up front that I work during the week and take care of a disabled wife . I generally ship within 48 hours (in this case it was one day longer due to an emergency); generally, say what you intend to do and what you expect. Having a look at some eBay listings will give you a pretty good idea if you look at the Power Sellers.

In the meantime, I am going to stick to Craigs List I think and take only EMT's up here in Canada. They are much safer and if a buyer messes around it is then bank fraud and very easy to get the authorities (police) involved.

Don't let this stop you from selling on CPAPAUCTIONS - you could choose to take payment by postal money order or such and avoid the PayPal hassles of unscrupulous buyers. I think that is what the sponsors of the auction site intented in any event.... good luck to you.

[torontoCPAPguy]

Wasting bandwidth, sorry folks.

Not wasting bandwidth at all.... teaching cpapauction sellers how to spot the wolves amongst us and perhaps how to deal with them? First, to your guffaws at my eBay 100% positive feedback rating at 500+ transactions:



Mr. Mao:

Dan, I am asking you one last time before taking further action to reconsider what I believe to be a fraudulent claim of “goods not delivered” that you have filed with PayPal and continuously refuse to terminate. I have escalated this to a PayPal claim and will take whatever further actions I deem necessary to protect my interests and those of other innocent people that may sell to you. What you are doing is simply not right and I find it difficult to believe that you do not understand this.

My timeline dates are a bit askew; so for the record:

July 27. Auction ends. CPAPAUCTIONS sends out emails advising of this and requesting payment be made by buyer Mao.
July 28: Buyer Mao emails seller requesting a PayPal invoice be sent.
July 28: Seller sends PayPal invoice to buyer Mao
July 28 @ 10:10 PM EDT: Buyer Mao pays PayPal invoice received
July 29: Seller notes PayPal payment has been made
July 29: Seller unpacks equipment, sets it up to check time used, to select best and inserts second item purchased and waives shipping on it. All at the request of buyer Mao.
July 30: Seller has emergency and misses postal outlet cutoff time
July 31: Seller ships package and provides tracking # by email, PayPal and Post Office tracking service registry.
July 31 @ 6:03 AM PDT: Buyer Mao has already placed fraudulent "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS" dispute. Note this is less than 48 hours after seller notes payment.
July 31: Seller sends multiple messages to buyer Mao, all of which are ignored, requesting dispute to be removed. No response(s).
Aug 1: Seller continues to send multiple messages to buyer, all of which are still ignored, requesting dispute be removed. (No responses).
Aug 1: Buyer Mao finally responds after seller posts details on cpap.com in response to Buyer Mao’s online insults and queries from other forum members. Buyer Mao then sends message to seller asking that it be kept private (sic). Buyer Mao still refuses to remove fraudulent dispute for “NON DELIVERY OF GOODS”.

So, to be exacting, please correct me if I am wrong, I shipped on the second day after noting payment received (Jul 29-Jul 31), explain that it would have been shipped on July 30 except for an emergency that caused me to miss the postal outlet cutoff time (I even sent information on the emergency from Bell) and provided tracking information immediately via email, postal service tracking service, and PayPal. In the meantime I had unpacked the machines to pick the best one for you as you requested and I inserted the second item purchased and waived the shipping charges as you requested as a favor.

Despite all of this you filed a fraudulent dispute claiming "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS" and refused to remove this dispute when repeatedly requested. I even placed a public apology for taking time to deliver or for whatever other transgressions you may have deemed me to have made on cpap.com. Still, you refused to end your fraudulent dispute for "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS", forcing ME to escalate the dispute to a PayPal CLAIM so that you could also waste PayPal's valuable time in resolving this matter.

I apologize if earlier communications had the timeline slightly off, but I have taken the time this evening, skipping dinner, to go over all of the details of the timeline to come up with one that I believe is absolutely accurate.

What you are doing here is very, very wrong. It is showing you as being dishonest and fraudulent. I trust that PayPal will see it as such and take the appropriate actions. I will also be taking whatever actions are necessary to protect my interests as I have told you already and to protect other innocent sellers who do not recognize you for the dishonest wolf that you are.

And this information will also be placed in the public domain in perpetuity to protect the interests of others that may make the mistake of selling to you or dealing with you.

I again ask you, one last time, to end this fraudulent dispute amicably and without further trouble and inconvenience to everyone involved. It is the right thing to do.

Your actions boggle the mind.

Murray Lampert
CPAP.COM FORUM: TorontoCPAPguy
416-347-8746

P.S. If at any time you had any concerns, you have always had my phone number and could have simply called but chose not to for reasons unknown, further reinforcing my strong feelings that your intentions are obviously less than honourable.

[rosiefrosie]

dtsm, we could talk about a certain mask................ Give torontoCPAPuy a break, seems he is trying to apologize and make it right. Everyone makes mistakes now and then, wouldn't you agree?

rosie

[torontoCPAPguy]

xxxx, we could talk about a certain mask................ Give torontoCPAPuy a break, seems he is trying to apologize and make it right. Everyone makes mistakes now and then, wouldn't you agree?

rosie

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Anyone else?

[torontoCPAPguy]

Hi again auctioneers! Here is my final letter begging my customer to end his fraudulent dispute that he registered with PayPal for "GOODS NOT RECEIVED" approximately 36 hours after I noted his payment and while his goods were enroute to him. He would not have known if the goods were enroute or not as I had not sent him the tracking information as of yet... so he was obviously up to no good. The letter will be forwarded to the Office of the Inspector General, US Postal Service; the Federal Trade Commission - Internet Fraud Office; the local FBI office - Internet Fraud Department; all of the auction sites and so on, including his local police department. Anyway, here is what you need to go through sometimes... it is just coincidence and very unfortunate that this took place in my first auctions on cpapauction.com. In 1500 auctions on eBay I have had perhaps no more than a half dozen disputes at most, none of which ever resulted in a chargeback to my PayPal account but most of which tied up my PayPal funds for the duration of their investigation. They are pretty good folks (hopefully they will be pretty good folks on this situation as well).

I DID make a mistake, however, and you should learn from it. I made the cardinal sin of not stating in the auction up front (in my excitement and haste) exactly what my shipping terms were and what the buyer should expect. Perhaps he expected same day shipping? I should have stated that I do my best to ship within 48 hours excepting emergencies and that tracking information is provided on all shipments via email, via PayPal and via the postal service tracking service emails (more than enough tracking, right?). I normally use software to drive my auctions and a template to build them from that includes this information. I plain forgot. Having said that... when a buyer makes a payment late at night they should expect that it is not going to be noted until the following day and should allow a brief period of, say, 48 hours for the seller to get things packed, in order, recorded and to the Postal Outlet. I know that I do and always have. It is reasonable. But state it to make sure there are no mistaken assumptions.

Sometime later today, should the PayPal dispute not be resolved amicably, the doodoo will hit the fan, wasting time for everyone and creating much grief. It is a shame but one must protect one's interests as well as those of other auction participants to ensure that the auction process maintains its integrity and weeds out unscrupulous buyers and sellers.

Do not avoid the auction process but, as with CPAP, educate yourself and learn from experience always.... we have enjoyed the eBay experience and will continue to do so and hopefully we will now enjoy the cpapauction experience as both buyers and sellers. Oh, one other thing. We have never been afraid to give out our real email address nor our phone number and all it would have taken in this case is a call from the buyer to sort out any issues that he may have had. He did not take the time to call. That is the way it goes sometimes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. XXX:

XXX, I am asking you one last time before taking further action to reconsider what I believe to be a fraudulent claim of “goods not delivered” that you have filed with PayPal and continuously refuse to terminate. I have escalated this to a PayPal claim and will take whatever further actions I deem necessary to protect my interests and those of other innocent people that may sell to you. What you are doing is simply not right and I find it difficult to believe that you do not understand this.

My timeline dates are a bit askew; so for the record:

July 27. Auction ends. CPAPAUCTIONS sends out emails advising of this and requesting payment be made by buyer XXX.
July 28: Buyer XXX emails seller requesting a PayPal invoice be sent.
July 28: Seller sends PayPal invoice to buyer XXX.
July 28 @ 10:10 PM EDT: Buyer XXX pays PayPal invoice received
July 29: Seller notes PayPal payment has been made
July 29: Seller unpacks equipment, sets it up to check time used, to select best and inserts second item purchased and waives shipping on it. All at the request of buyer XXX.
July 30: Seller has emergency and misses postal outlet cutoff time
July 31: Seller ships package and provides tracking # by email, PayPal and Post Office tracking service registry.
July 31 @ 6:03 AM PDT: Buyer XXX has already placed fraudulent "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS" dispute. Note this is less than 48 hours after seller notes payment.
July 31: Seller sends multiple messages to buyer xxx , all of which are ignored, requesting dispute to be removed. No response(s).
Aug 1: Seller continues to send multiple messages to buyer, all of which are still ignored, requesting dispute be removed. (No responses).
Aug 1: Buyer XXX finally responds after seller posts details on cpap.com in response to Buyer XXX online insults and queries from other forum members. Buyer XXX then sends message to seller asking that it be kept private (sic). Buyer still refuses to remove fraudulent dispute for “NON DELIVERY OF GOODS”.

So, to be exacting, please correct me if I am wrong, I shipped on the second day after noting payment received (Jul 29-Jul 31), explain that it would have been shipped on July 30 except for an emergency that caused me to miss the postal outlet cutoff time (I even sent information on the emergency from Bell) and provided tracking information immediately via email, postal service tracking service, and PayPal. In the meantime I had unpacked the machines to pick the best one for you as you requested and I inserted the second item purchased and waived the shipping charges as you requested as a favor.

Despite all of this you filed a fraudulent dispute claiming "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS" and refused to remove this dispute when repeatedly requested. I even placed a public apology for taking time to deliver or for whatever other transgressions you may have deemed me to have made on cpap.com. Still, you refused to end your fraudulent dispute for "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS", forcing ME to escalate the dispute to a PayPal CLAIM so that you could also waste PayPal's valuable time in resolving this matter.

I apologize if earlier communications had the timeline slightly off, but I have taken the time this evening, skipping dinner, to go over all of the details of the timeline to come up with one that I believe is absolutely accurate.

What you are doing here is very, very wrong. It is showing you as being dishonest and fraudulent. I trust that PayPal will see it as such and take the appropriate actions. I will also be taking whatever actions are necessary to protect my interests as I have told you already and to protect other innocent sellers who do not recognize you for the dishonest wolf that you are.

And this information will also be placed in the public domain in perpetuity to protect the interests of others that may make the mistake of selling to you or dealing with you.

I again ask you, one last time, to end this fraudulent dispute amicably and without further trouble and inconvenience to everyone involved. It is the right thing to do.

Your actions boggle the mind.

Murray Lampert
CPAP.COM FORUM: TorontoCPAPguy
416-347-xxxx

P.S. If at any time you had any concerns, you have always had my phone number and could have simply called but chose not to for reasons unknown, further reinforcing my strong feelings that your intentions are obviously less than honourable.

[WearyOne]

Maybe I'm not understanding this, but since it's scaring me off selling anything else on cpapauction...

TorontoCpapGuy sells an item on cpapauction and is one day later than he technically should have been (or said he would be) mailing the item out and the buyer files "item not received" with PayPal? And this was done in less than five days after the auction ended?? And apparently with multiple apologies from the seller? Again, maybe I'm misreading something, but if I'm not, and this kind of thing happens a lot, leave me out of the selling end of it.

BTW, do you know if the buyer receive the goods? If he's not communicating with you, you can tell by the tracking info, right? Don't know how long it should take; just wondering.

Pam

EDIT: I completely forgot to mention in response to the OP, I have sold a few small things on cpapauction a while back and had no problems at all. I was going to try selling a few more items I had been holding onto and decided I'll never use (masks I bought myself that didn't work). But now, I'm not too sure. Maybe things have changed too much.

[LoQ]

Maybe I'm not understanding this, but since it's scaring me off selling anything else on cpapauction...

You know, I wouldn't worry about it. The seller's story here doesn't seem entirely reasonable, and I sense that something is missing. We also have not heard the buyer's version. The truth may be different from what either of them would present here.

[bilnap]

I am 76, retired and living on Social Security and a modest pension. I had a 5 year old machine and I donated it to my sleep Doctor to pass on to a person that has need and no insurance. You might want to donate it to one of our Canadian friends that seem to get overcharged on this equipment.

[plr66]

I have usually tried to stay away from confrontational posts, but I do need to point out that dtsm posted a sarcastic note here on the afternoon of 8/1/10 confronting torontoCPAPguy for something that happened within the past 36 hours.....and that post has suddenly disappeared. I am now getting PM's from dtsm to challenge me about my response for his apparent accusation of torontoCPAPguy. Not gonna go there on the PM route.
My thread was an innocent question seeking help. I hate what I'm hearing about this ridiculous dispute, and was hoping to avoid just that very kind of conflict when listing an auction.

[sleepycarol]

I have sold and purchased items on both eBay and cpapauction.

In my experience if a buyer doesn't receive the goods and puts a claim in against a seller, until the goods are actually in the buyers hands you should NOT close a dispute.

This is a true example of a situation that I encountered at one point (been on eBay for 10 years) (don't want to discuss feedback as it doesn't indicate a true representation of a deal since they only go back a year now for percentages and since many do not leave feedback it is very difficult to actually estimate the number of actual transactions one has been involved in) --

buyer does not receive goods after a period of time a dispute is filed with Paypal for goods not delivered --

seller then turns around and files a response that item has shipped and provides tracking number indicating when it was shipped, etc. --

seller ask that the dispute be closed since item has shipped and he can prove that it is shipped --

buyer agrees since he "has prove that THE item is shipped" --

buyer closes dispute BEFORE receiving item in the mail at the REQUEST of the seller ---

buyer receives his package and guess what? NOT the item he purchased but another item in its place -- he has absolutely no recourse through paypal now since he closed his dispute -- end of story as seller does not respond to numerous request to please correct this problem --

seller gets to keep payment and buyer is out the funds and no item (the one originally purchased)

Paypal will advise you NOT to close a dispute until AFTER the item arrives.

I am not saying that torontacpapguy is ripping anyone off -- but until the item arrives if it was me I would NOT close a dispute.

As far as government agencies getting involved -- good luck as the vast majority of these transactions they won't get involved in. I had my paypal account hijacked a few years ago (a year later my son had his hijacked to the tune of a couple of thousand dollars) and the authorities did nor would not get involved.

[torontoCPAPguy]

Hi guys:
My last posting of the letter to the buyer is EXACTLY what I sent to him and EXACTLY the timeline of events. When one sells an item and gets paid by PayPal it is customary and according to PayPal rules to ship within SEVEN days of receipt of payment. I learned of the payment and shipped 48 hours later (roughly) by which time the buyer had filed a "GOODS NOT RECEIVED" dispute. How on Earth one would expect goods to be delivered within 48 hours from Canada to CT, USA by mail is beyond me. In any event, tracking information had been sent to the buyer and filed on the PayPal site. After some discussion I gather that the buyer has agreed to take care of the matter and reverse his "GOODS NOT RECEIVED" dispute. If after a reasonable time, the goods are not received, then a "GOODS NOT RECEIVED" dispute can certainly be filed with PayPal. Until that time, the filing of a "GOODS NOT RECEIVED" dispute is fraudulent. It is really that simple. This transaction stinks to high heavens and I am totally shocked by it. I have had not a word of response to that letter disputing the timeline nor the shipment enroute. The buyer has asked that this dispute be put on the back channel for whatever reason and I have refused to do so in the hopes that it will be educational for those selling on cpapauctions, eBay or wherever. It is not a perfect world out there. Cover your rear end gang!

[sleepycarol]

All I know is that I was involved in a dispute just this past week where I used PayPal for payment and didn't receive my item and my response reflects what they advised me to do == to NOT close the dispute until item was in hand. I was told once the dispute was closed it could NOT be reopened (even under a different category).

Rules in Canada maybe different, as I am in the states.