Question re Selling on CPAP Auction

Jay K wrote:The real problem is getting stuck with a deadbeat seller. I recently purchased an S9 that was listed as including the climateline hose. When I received the package it did not include the hose. I wrote to the seller who said that has happened on a few of her sales (the package did not include the upgraded hose) and she promised to send me the missing hose. Over one month later I have received nothing and she has refused to respond to my emails.

I contacted CPAPauction to register a preliminary complaint, and although they claim to have a dispute resolution procedure they did not even bother to respond to my complaint. But I guess I'm not surprised. When I earlier sent an email to cpap.com regarding one of my orders with them, they too did not extend the courtesy of a response (I mention this at risk of receiving flames from the cpap.com apologists on the board ).

hey the same thing happened to me and I suspect it was the same seller a CS. I have emailed a few times (I did get a response at first) and she says she is sending it but I am still waiting 2 months later ... I think I will email her again right now

brucelegs wrote:

Jay K wrote:The real problem is getting stuck with a deadbeat seller. I recently purchased an S9 that was listed as including the climateline hose. When I received the package it did not include the hose. I wrote to the seller who said that has happened on a few of her sales (the package did not include the upgraded hose) and she promised to send me the missing hose. Over one month later I have received nothing and she has refused to respond to my emails.

I contacted CPAPauction to register a preliminary complaint, and although they claim to have a dispute resolution procedure they did not even bother to respond to my complaint. But I guess I'm not surprised. When I earlier sent an email to cpap.com regarding one of my orders with them, they too did not extend the courtesy of a response (I mention this at risk of receiving flames from the cpap.com apologists on the board ).

hey the same thing happened to me and I suspect it was the same seller a CS. I have emailed a few times (I did get a response at first) and she says she is sending it but I am still waiting 2 months later ... I think I will email her again right now

In this case perhaps you waited a bit TOO long to file a dispute with PayPal. To me, a dispute for "GOODS NOT RECEIVED" or "GOODS NOT AS DESCRIBED" needs to be filed after a reasonable amount of time has passed to allow for delivery but immediately upon noting that the goods that you have received are not as ordered. In my case, I do not believe that 36-48 hours after payment essentially received is reasonable. It takes at least a week or two for packages mailed from the USA to Canada or from Canada to the USA to get to their destination. THAT is a reasonable amount of time, especially in consideration of tracking information being provided online and by email regularly as the package progresses enroute. However, once that package arrives, if the goods are not as ordered, a dispute needs to be filed immediately and with good cause. The process is for the protection of the buyer against unscrupulous sellers and is not meant to be used as anything else. But it SHOULD be used when needed.

In my situation, BTW, I am hoping that the buyer and I have come to a mutually agreeable and amicable settlement of this transaction and can get on with our lives. Tempers flare. Words are exchanged. And an anthill becomes a nuclear disaster. Here's hoping. And again, in my case, cpapauction.com DID come to the table and intercede. And PayPal as well will intercede and the matter will terminate a natural death in 48 hours from now. We hope.

An update:
At buyer's request I have removed all references to him from my postings as he had promised to take care of the matter and remove his claim for "goods not received". It now appears that he is playing with me as this has not been done. I note that he uses the same ResMed S8 Autoset II that I have sold and shipped to him and am concerned that his is giving him grief and he is going to claim I shipped him a brick, thus "goods not received". (Sic).

Fortunately, PayPal generally sees through these things and restores things to the way they should be but in the meantime funds are held up and one has no idea what the final outcome is going to be.

Cpapauction did get involved and promised to ban this guy from the system (much to their credit) if he did not resolve the matter as he promised and I am awaiting this action.

Having said all of this, remember that in 1500 eBay transactions (give or take) with 100% positive feedback, I have never been charged back by PayPal ultimately - so I do have faith in them thus far.

I will keep you updated so you can make your own decisions as to how you wish to take payment and handle your auctions.

This unscrupulous egomaniac that bought from me and had me jump through hoops for him is about to walk the hot sands.

Thanks for the update, Toronto. I consider this scenario to be an education. Personally, I am not sure it is ever a good idea to capitulate with someone when they want you to remove their name or remove your posted reports about your transactions with them, in exchange for an apology. (...unless you discover that you screwed up). I was requested to do that by dtsm in a PM, and just do not feel that is appropriate. People need to back up and think before acting (or typing)....and need to take responsibility for their choices & behavior. You post something, then you stand responsible for that.

I am the buyer that has been MIA from this thread since making that silly one sentence post (which I deleted but said: "After what has transpired the past 36 hours, I can't believe you actually posted this?). In hindsight, it was impulsive, it was stupid and I accept full blame. I apologize to everyone , including the Seller.

Now back to reality. My goal, first and foremost - get what I paid for. I refused to settle this dispute in a court of public opinion; I sat patiently in silence to wait for the goods to arrive and to let the system handle any disputes. Now that the shipment has finally arrived, let me make a few comments:

1. Seller went "MIA" for 3 days after receipt of payment, even after 3 emails and one pm asking for shipping information (and only for this).
2. ONLY AFTER a claim was filed with paypal and cpapauction did the Seller finally respond.
3. I finally got a tracking number that confirmed shipment made on Sat at 1440 hours. There are electronic time stamps to all of my communications.
4. What transpired for the next 36 hours no one should have to endure, including being bombarded by emails from the seller with threats to report me to the FBI, Homeland Security, local sheriff department, intentional postal fraud - shall I continue? Contrary to his public persona, he's quite different in private....
5. On the following Monday Seller sent an email to my employer that reads (I am quoting the entire message to avoid accusations of taking him out of context):Mr. XXX:I understand that Mr. xxxx is associated with your firm and I thought you should know that his actions as of late are not those of a balanced person; perhaps the following will be enlightening and of some help. He should not be dealing with the public or with sensistive materials that may put the public at risk.Regardsxxxx
6. On that same Monday, here on this thread, he broke a cardinal rule of public forums - he posted my real name!


Contrary to the claims of plr66:

plr66Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:14 pm wrote:I see no need for dtsm to try to destroy you for this if you have made efforts to reconcile the mess by PM.

I did nothing of the kind.


Maybe the most intelligent comment came from sleepycarol:

sleepycarol Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:13 pm wrote:I have sold and purchased items on both eBay and cpapauction. In my experience if a buyer doesn't receive the goods and puts a claim in against a seller, until the goods are actually in the buyers hands you should NOT close a dispute.

Thank you!


In the meantime, does anyone besides plr66 take the Seller seriously? I can't:

torontoCPAPguy on Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:18 am wrote:Having said all of this, remember that in 1500 eBay transactions (give or take) with 100% positive feedback

Does anyone really think he even knows how to use eBay?


Last two comments:
1. I have already retracted my claim via PayPal; Seller now will get his money.
2. Potential sellers: don't despair, most transactions aren't like this

Not exactly the whole story but, whatever. I think I posted the timeline earlier and I stand by it. As you asked I erased ALL references that I made to you personally and kept the matter on an educational level albeit with a bit of anger thrown in. I had no idea that you had filed a claim for "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS" with PayPal at the time the shipment was made - had I known I probably would not have shipped. In any event, this should be a learning experience for all of us. I, too, apologize for transgressing good manners and etiquette where I did so and I hope that both dtms and the good folks on this thread will accept that as it is given.

And for the record, head over to eBay and have a look at bargoons4u. Look at when I registered. Look at my feedback numbers. I strive, at any cost, to ensure that I am 100% positive.

dtsm wrote:4. What transpired for the next 36 hours no one should have to endure, including being bombarded by emails from the seller with threats to report me to the FBI, Homeland Security, local sheriff department, intentional postal fraud - shall I continue? Contrary to his public persona, he's quite different in private....
5. On the following Monday Seller sent an email to my employer that reads (I am quoting the entire message to avoid accusations of taking him out of context):Mr. XXX:I understand that Mr. xxxx is associated with your firm and I thought you should know that his actions as of late are not those of a balanced person; perhaps the following will be enlightening and of some help. He should not be dealing with the public or with sensistive materials that may put the public at risk.Regardsxxxx
6. On that same Monday, here on this thread, he broke a cardinal rule of public forums - he posted my real name!

I knew there had to be another side to this story. Thanks for filling us in, and I'm sorry for the agony he has put you through.

Sending email to your employer? torontoCPAPguy, do you deny that? If you did this, then you are truly despicable.

torontoCPAPguy wrote:I, too, apologize for transgressing good manners and etiquette where I did so and I hope that both dtms and the good folks on this thread will accept that as it is given.

Certainly, unless you did the things in dtsm's list above.

Mr. XXX:

XXX, I am asking you one last time before taking further action to reconsider what I believe to be a fraudulent claim of “goods not delivered” that you have filed with PayPal and continuously refuse to terminate. I have escalated this to a PayPal claim and will take whatever further actions I deem necessary to protect my interests and those of other innocent people that may sell to you. What you are doing is simply not right and I find it difficult to believe that you do not understand this.

My timeline dates are a bit askew; so for the record:

July 27. Auction ends. CPAPAUCTIONS sends out emails advising of this and requesting payment be made by buyer XXX.
July 28: Buyer XXX emails seller requesting a PayPal invoice be sent.
July 28: Seller sends PayPal invoice to buyer XXX.
July 28 @ 10:10 PM EDT: Buyer XXX pays PayPal invoice received
July 29: Seller notes PayPal payment has been made
July 29: Seller unpacks equipment, sets it up to check time used, to select best and inserts second item purchased and waives shipping on it. All at the request of buyer XXX.
July 30: Seller has emergency and misses postal outlet cutoff time
July 31: Seller ships package and provides tracking # by email, PayPal and Post Office tracking service registry.
July 31 @ 6:03 AM PDT: Buyer XXX has already placed fraudulent "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS" dispute. Note this is less than 48 hours after seller notes payment.
July 31: Seller sends multiple messages to buyer xxx , all of which are ignored, requesting dispute to be removed. No response(s).
Aug 1: Seller continues to send multiple messages to buyer, all of which are still ignored, requesting dispute be removed. (No responses).
Aug 1: Buyer XXX finally responds after seller posts details on cpap.com in response to Buyer XXX online insults and queries from other forum members. Buyer XXX then sends message to seller asking that it be kept private (sic). Buyer still refuses to remove fraudulent dispute for “NON DELIVERY OF GOODS”.

So, to be exacting, please correct me if I am wrong, I shipped on the second day after noting payment received (Jul 29-Jul 31), explain that it would have been shipped on July 30 except for an emergency that caused me to miss the postal outlet cutoff time (I even sent information on the emergency from Bell) and provided tracking information immediately via email, postal service tracking service, and PayPal. In the meantime I had unpacked the machines to pick the best one for you as you requested and I inserted the second item purchased and waived the shipping charges as you requested as a favor.

Despite all of this you filed a fraudulent dispute claiming "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS" and refused to remove this dispute when repeatedly requested. I even placed a public apology for taking time to deliver or for whatever other transgressions you may have deemed me to have made on cpap.com. Still, you refused to end your fraudulent dispute for "NON DELIVERY OF GOODS", forcing ME to escalate the dispute to a PayPal CLAIM so that you could also waste PayPal's valuable time in resolving this matter.

I apologize if earlier communications had the timeline slightly off, but I have taken the time this evening, skipping dinner, to go over all of the details of the timeline to come up with one that I believe is absolutely accurate.

What you are doing here is very, very wrong. It is showing you as being dishonest and fraudulent. I trust that PayPal will see it as such and take the appropriate actions. I will also be taking whatever actions are necessary to protect my interests as I have told you already and to protect other innocent sellers who do not recognize you for the dishonest wolf that you are.

And this information will also be placed in the public domain in perpetuity to protect the interests of others that may make the mistake of selling to you or dealing with you.

I again ask you, one last time, to end this fraudulent dispute amicably and without further trouble and inconvenience to everyone involved. It is the right thing to do.

Your actions boggle the mind.

Murray Lampert
CPAP.COM FORUM: TorontoCPAPguy
416-347-xxxx

P.S. If at any time you had any concerns, you have always had my phone number and could have simply called but chose not to for reasons unknown, further reinforcing my strong feelings that your intentions are obviously less than honourable.
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ALSO:
An automatic email would have been sent at auction's end to advise of winning and requesting payment.
An email would have been received from PayPal advising of the invoice that you requested.
An email would have been sent to you confirming payment was made and received.
An email would have been received advising that I missed the post office cutoff time but that the shipment was in process.
And finally, an email would have been received from me directly, via PayPal and via the Postal service tracking system advising of the tracking information and keeping you updated on the progress of the package as it made its way to you.

For consideration: I note payment made on July 29; I am distracted by emergency at work on July 30 but nontheless unpack and repack everything to accomodate your requested favor. Miss the post office cutoff time and have to return on July 31, about 48 hours after noting payment has been made to make the shipment at the post office, BY WHICH TIME YOU HAVE ALREADY FILED A "GOODS NOT RECEIVED" dispute with PayPal. And, as we all know, things went rapidly downhill from there.

Tried my best but my best wasn't good enough as they say. I think I should have communicated perhaps by telephone or perhaps better by email but assumed that you were being kept abreast by automatic emails and that 48 hours was not unreasonable in any event. You, on the other hand, have only received automatic emails and nothing on a personal level and are getting worried and upset obviously. I think that I have learned a valuable lesson from this transaction. It is time to let it die a peaceful death.

torontoCPAPguy: Do you deny that you sent email to the dtsm's employer?

You did not say, but I HOPE you did NOT contact the buyer's employer, as he states that you did. I don't know what this whole thing would have to do with his job!

I too, am glad to hear the other side of the situation. It is only fair, since torontoCPAPguy posted all this, that we hear dtms.

I have made many purchases on cpapauction.com ( never been a seller) and have never had anything like this happen!

I once did not receive the goods and cpapauction.com and PayPal helped as much as they could. Never got it. I had one who did not ship it as he promised and I ended up paying a Brokerage fee, and giving and getting bad feedback. Other than that, smooth, purchases.

Whew. Just have to say again that I started this thread to simply ask naive questions as a first-time seller. And I would just repeat, what an education this scenario has been.

plr66 wrote:People need to back up and think before acting (or typing)....and need to take responsibility for their choices & behavior. You post something, then you stand responsible for that.

Just to be clear, I'm sure you think this applies also to torontoCPAPguy as well, right? What are your thoughts about him emailing dtsm's employer?

Dear all:

I spoke my piece, I stand by everyone word I posted, I think my record on this forum speaks for itself. I am not out to get anyone - just wanted to set the record straight.

Let's just call it a simple misunderstanding between Seller and Buyer. Seller should never have escalated it.....but it's over.

Let's just move on

Wow!
I agree with DTSM.
Shar:)

plr66 wrote:Whew. Just have to say again that I started this thread to simply ask naive questions as a first-time seller. And I would just repeat, what an education this scenario has been.

Yeah, this is beyond insane. Sheesh!

Anyway - I discovered the feedback rating system is very unfair. First, it allows people to give retaliatory feedback, which is what happened to me, and it's skewed toward people who do a lot of transactions. I had a problem with a seller and ended up leaving them negative feedback. They retaliated by leaving a negative feedback on my profile even though I'd paid them the money immediately after the auction ended and attempted to contact them by email when I didn't receive my item and never heard anything from them.

That suddenly got their attention and it was only then that they mailed out my item and then came on my profile and left a really nasty negative feedback which included my personal information! I got CPAPauction to delete the identifying information, but the negative feedback is still there. Since I'm not a regular buyer or seller, having that one negative feedback drags my score way down and for no reason since it was just a retaliation

So I've just stopped using the auction site. I also didn't like that the raised their fees considerably, which also favors people who do a lot of transactions. It's really not a site for us regular users anymore. That's the way I see it.

I did have one problem with a buyer once. I specifically said in the auction description that I'm only accepting paypal payments, well when this person won the auction they didn't even know what paypal was! So that was very frustrating and I think I probably wasn't as patient with them as I should have been, but after much back and forth emailing they did finally figure it out and pay me and I did send them the item.