OSA, Driving and Government Run Amuk

[kempo]

Sorry to hear about the trouble the State has put you and your wife through. With the way things have been going in this country people will be going to the polls this November like never before to stop government intrusions into our lives. The masses are pissed. Politicians are running for cover.

If I were you I would call my State Representive and State Senator and explain in a calm and concise way the events that took place. Remember this is an election year. You might be surprised at how much you can get done.

I like everyone hopes that everyone who drives a vehicle especially a commercial vehicle has the physical and mental ability to do it in a safe manner. There should be procedures in place to revoke a person's DL but the way they did your wife is BS.

Good luck

[Patrick A]

frh
Are you sure you are not in Mexifornia aka California?

[Goofproof]

So much for DUE PROCESS, Sounds like Your BMV has a big flaw in their thinking. This country is being turned into Nazi Germany more so every day. Giving credence to informants and RATs without verifying the facts is terrible, and should be made a lesson.

Even worse, you should make a effort to find the person that made the false report to the BMV, and sue their panties off. Our Rights in the U.S. are being cut out daily in the U.S. Maybe if the person had to who falsely accused your wife had to pay back wages and other damages, her wagging tongue.

Correctly treated, Sleep Apnea isn't a illness or disability, it's just one of life's inconveniences. Jim

[Really]

On the sleep study reports I have seen there was always a line warning about driving.
I think it is a cya. Really

[So Well]

With the way things have been going in this country people will be going to the polls this November like never before to stop government intrusions into our lives. The masses are pissed. Politicians are running for cover.

Snores, I so very much wish you were correct. Unfortunately, it looks like we are going to get more of the bureaucracy building, freedom stifling politicians.

To date in 2010, 232 House incumbents have sought re-nomination, and 229 of them (99%) have won – many without any opposition at all.
http://www.largodemocrats.com/2010/06/a ... media.html

Very few freedom loving, limited government types run for office.



Yes frh, what happened to your wife is a sorry spot on our freedoms. I'm glad you are not tolerating it.

[ywp]

This worries me in a lot of ways

I have a cdl and treated apnea. I feel my porformance and judgement is 100% and I am in good health.

But, I don't want my kids on a buss with a driver on O2 and numerous health conditions. I am surpised the PTA and soccer moms are not out with pitchforks. The biggest part of being a cdl is proper judgement. All the health problems and different doctors you listed questions your ablity to be on the road.

Thirdly, If a doctor thought you were unsafe and dropped a dime. It doesn't matter if the person complains enought they are back on the road. And if they have an accident, they come after all treated apena people in good health.

I had to take away my mothers license because she was unsafe, and a danger to others. 10 years later in advanced stages of dementa she still wants her keys back.

[BlackSpinner]

While this was badly handled - there should have been a warning and opportunity to be tested, This is the government doing its job - protecting its citizens from incompetent or dangerous drivers. We took away mothers license and Dad MUST get tested and have a letter from his doctor every year in order to keep his. That is the way it should be.

Plus there would have been no way I would have put my kid on a bus with an oxygen tank. I would have raised such a fuss at the school board and organized all the parents to get rid of that off the bus.

[nosenabook]

I like everyone hopes that everyone who drives a vehicle especially a commercial vehicle has the physical and mental ability to do it in a safe manner. There should be procedures in place to revoke a person's DL but the way they did your wife is BS.

Good luck

I agree completely.

But, I don't want my kids on a bus with a driver on O2 and numerous health conditions.

I'll admit it would make me nervous, too, even while I concede the logical rightness. The O2 gear is visible evidence of a health problem being treated. Numerous other health conditions have no visible evidence, treated or not. My school district is desperate for school bus drivers, especially those with experience, especially since the state disallowed anyone under the age of 21. The job isn't just driving, you must deal with misbehaving kids and parents.

I hope the licenses are all regained. I can believe the story about a disgruntled co-worker, I've seen it.

[BlackSpinner]

[quote="nosenabook"The O2 gear is visible evidence of a health problem being treated.[/quote]

No I would be concerned of a bottle of O2 on a school bus. Every hospital I have been too has big signs about open flame near O2. I wouldn't want a potential bomb on my kids school bus.

[GumbyCT]

The O2 gear is visible evidence of a health problem being treated.

No I would be concerned of a bottle of O2 on a school bus. Every hospital I have been too has big signs about open flame near O2. I wouldn't want a potential bomb on my kids school bus.

O2 is not flammable just aids in combustion. Low O2 causes altered mental status or even death. The need for a O2 bottle suggests Low O2.

When you think about it we get a drivers license when we are 16 and are never tested again. That is a recipe for disaster. Think about how many laws are changed by time we get to 50, 60, 70, or even 80. Not even an eye exam? Nor a driving evaluation. How about parking?

Do you wish your doctors had a lifetime license too?

[frh]

Patrick A, unfortunately too much intrusive government is one of the reasons why we moved our business from California 16 years ago. And that's one of the reasons why we are looking to retire to a less populated area very soon.

Goofproof, my problem with the way this went down is all about due process. Like I said, we're pretty sure we know who wrote the letter. I kind of doubt if we can do anything about it other than filing a complaint with the school district. No doubt they will just circle the wagons. What I hope is the person that started this might get some unwanted attention from the bosses.

My wife's alleged OSA became a non-issue pretty quickly when she presented herself at the DMV office and they realized she is not "impaired." All of a sudden their big concern became her vision, and when she passed their vision test with flying colors, that became a non issue too. We still have to get a doctor to fill out and sign a form, but that shouldn't be a problem either.

One of the things that really pisses me off, to use your words, is "Correctly treated, Sleep Apnea isn't a illness or disability, it's just one of life's inconveniences." This is the kind of crap that could happen to anyone with OSA. As near as I can tell, the only way you could prove your OSA is successfully treated is with a sleep study. What if that sleep study was on a bad night. (My AHI has been as low as 1.5 and as high as 14.1 in the last 2 weeks.) If you believe (as I do) that many more people have undiagnosed OSA (or OSA that is not successfully treated), than those of us who actually take it seriously, that's a pretty slippery slope. Shouldn't everybody be required to have a sleep study? At what point do we decide government intrusion has gone too far?

ywp, backspinner, noseinabook and others, at this point, I am beginning to be pretty uncomfortable that I even started this thread. I hope people loose interest in it pretty quickly. But I feel like I need to respond to a couple of things.

My wife was diagnosed with COPD during the Winter break, so she had oxygen for a little while before school started. Her COPD is mild enough that the doc said she could drive the school bus without supplemental oxygen. After she was diagnosed, she drove for a couple of days and reported back to the doc that it made her too tired. That's when he wrote the note requiring her to have oxygen.

The school district responded by saying she could not drive with oxygen. She offered to get a relatively small, portable oxygen generator that does not have a storage tank. But they would not allow her drive with that either. Then she asked them if there was any other job she could transfer to at the school district with her oxygen. And they pretty much told her she was not welcome there with it. That really pissed her doctor off, because he has lots of patients who drive with oxygen (even an airline pilot).

Friday, when we went to the DMV office, my wife took her oxygen tank in with her, but did not use it. She wanted them to see that she could function without it. My guess is (if I had remembered to bring it), the pulse oxymeter would have reported her oxygen level to be between 88 and 92 without supplemental oxygen in that stressful situation. With oxygen, it would have been around 94 to 97.

Without her oxygen, she gets tired more easily. With her compromised immune system, being around snotty nosed kids all day long without oxygen would land her in the hospital again pretty quickly. It makes me pretty unhappy when she starts worrying about what other people think or say about her oxygen tank. My attitude is screw them.

It takes a special kind of person to be able to safely drive a bus full of (up to 87) screaming, misbehaving kids without loosing their cool or driving in an unsafe manner. I could not do it, but my wife has an immaculate driving / safety record.

By the way, the last couple of years she drove a special needs bus (that means handicapped kids). And BlackSpinner, one of the kids she drove required oxygen, so it was already on her bus. In my opinion, someone driving with a secured oxygen tank should be the least thing the public should be concerned about. Anyone who thinks kids are safe riding on school buses is delusional.

Look at the kind of day a school bus driver has. It's a split shift. My wife had to be on the bus at 5:45 am and finished her morning runs around 9 am. Then she had to come back for a couple of hours for noon runs. Then she had to come back for her afternoon runs. All told, she had a 9 hour day that took 13 or 14 hours. But they wouldn't pay overtime, so she could only turn in 8 hours a day. In and of itself, as far as I am concerned, that is a safety issue. Oh, did I mention a lot of school bus drivers are retired and in their 60's or 70's. Who else would do that job for $12 something an hour.

A bus like my wife drove has what they call a doghouse over the engine. It has to be opened every morning so the fluids and the engine compartment can be inspected. I needed to bring her some lunch money after a morning run one day. When she opened the door there was no lack of fumes coming from that doghouse area. And that bus was brand new her last year. (And that was the first year she actually had a bus with a working air conditioner.)

By the way, these busses line up with less than 24" between them in the morning to let kids off. And in the afternoon they have to be there 15 or 20 minutes before the kids get out of school. For my wife, she also had a couple of mid-day runs. Most of those times, the driver is sitting there, waiting with the door open breathing the fumes from the bus in front of it. And that happens at last half a dozen times a day for most bus drivers. (And what about the kids who are also breathing those fumes?)

Our school district has a lot of dirt roads. That's means the driver and kids are breathing a lot dust allergens and particulate matter. IU don't know why a lot more bus drivers don't develop breathing problems. (By the way, my wife never smoked.)

But there are a lot of even bigger issues people should be concerned with. How can they justify putting a $12.00 an hour school bus driver in charge of a 50' long school bus without paying for a aide or two to help manage the kids so the driver can concentrate on driving safely?

Except for special needs buses (like my wife drove) school buses are not required to have seat belts. And there is no requirement for books, backpacks, lunch boxes or band instruments to be secured either.

OK, end of rant. I did not mean to offend anyone, just get them thinking.

[So Well]

Except for special needs buses (like my wife drove) school buses are not required to have seat belts. And there is no requirement for books, backpacks, lunch boxes or band instruments to be secured either.

You have plenty of examples of government hypocrisy. They will give me, an adult, a ticket and fine for driving without a seat belt. Yet the government transports our young children without an option to wear a seat belt. So to those who think the government is looking out for our interests and protecting us from harm, I say bullshit. They are looking out for their jobs, vacations and pensions.

[BlackSpinner]

Anyone who thinks kids are safe riding on school buses is delusional.


But there are a lot of even bigger issues people should be concerned with. How can they justify putting a $12.00 an hour school bus driver in charge of a 50' long school bus without paying for a aide or two to help manage the kids so the driver can concentrate on driving safely?

Except for special needs buses (like my wife drove) school buses are not required to have seat belts. And there is no requirement for books, backpacks, lunch boxes or band instruments to be secured either.

Yes I was always horrified that they allowed those metal bars on the seats - right where a kid's head would hit on a sudden stop with no seat belts. School buses are the most unsafe vehicles on the road - and they carry our kids every day. There was lots of bullying and drama on my daughters buses. I was really glad she did her middle and highschool with my ex within walking distance. I lived in the country with the same kind of back roads, snow, ice, black ice and dirt for 30 -45 minute rides. More then once a bus went off the road - luckily not one with my daughter. Which was why I was concerned about an O2 tank on board a bus - not about the health issues.

[Goofproof]

Goofproof, my problem with the way this went down is all about due process. Like I said, we're pretty sure we know who wrote the letter. I kind of doubt if we can do anything about it other than filing a complaint with the school district. No doubt they will just circle the wagons. What I hope is the person that started this might get some unwanted attention from the bosses.

My wife's alleged OSA became a non-issue pretty quickly when she presented herself at the DMV office and they realized she is not "impaired." All of a sudden their big concern became her vision, and when she passed their vision test with flying colors, that became a non issue too. We still have to get a doctor to fill out and sign a form, but that shouldn't be a problem either.

One of the things that really pisses me off, to use your words, is "Correctly treated, Sleep Apnea isn't a illness or disability, it's just one of life's inconveniences." This is the kind of crap that could happen to anyone with OSA. As near as I can tell, the only way you could prove your OSA is successfully treated is with a sleep study. What if that sleep study was on a bad night. (My AHI has been as low as 1.5 and as high as 14.1 in the last 2 weeks.) If you believe (as I do) that many more people have undiagnosed OSA (or OSA that is not successfully treated), than those of us who actually take it seriously, that's a pretty slippery slope. Shouldn't everybody be required to have a sleep study? At what point do we decide government intrusion has gone too far?

I keep a record of my treatment with the machines software. It proves my treatment is working, plus my doctor sees me 4 times yearly, for tests and checkups and can prove that I am not a threat. Before XPAP I was, I've went to sleep driving trucks hauling 150 ton of rock & Coal over rough self made roads, with 1,200 HP sitting six feet under me. Lucky for me I never slept long at a time before something jolted me awake again. I don't need a sleep study again ever, I don't need a diabetes test either, I have it, I know it, I treat it, that's all that's required.

(BTW: We traveled on our own property, not with normal street traffic. No Streets there) It was hard driving our own vehicles home 40 miles after the shift. Now with the correct XPAP treatment, that's no longer a issue.

As far as the O2 bottle, if it's secured, it's safe. Anything loose can become a hazard in a wreck, In a school bus the most hazardous things in the bus would be the unruly kids. Don't even get me started on Seat Belts, I don't wear one, and I have a doctors prescription to clear me from using one, and a drivers license that confirms it. (Talk about hard to get.) I believe in the choice to run my life, and still not interfer with others rights. Jim

[frh]

Goofproof, the way I used your quote probably did not come out right. I meant to say I am in total agreement with you.

The thought of falling asleep at the wheel is downright scary. Even scarier with a big truck. I'm glad it never happened to me. I suppose it could have, but I just don't drive anywhere I don't have to anymore. After driving to and from jobs (anywhere from 10 to 80 miles each way), I get home and don't feel like getting in a car the rest of the day. My Daughter invited us to dinner today, and it was the first time in several months I drove at night. (The last time was to my sleep study in the middle of March.) It actually surprised me tonight that the headlights of oncoming cars did not bother me the way they used to. (I wonder if CPAP treatment has anything to do with that?)

My wife on the other hand, really likes driving and going places. I never could understand how she could stay focused on driving safely in that big bus all day long, then come home and want to get in the car and drive another 25 miles to go someplace like the Mall. But her sleep apnea was never severe enough that it made her groggy, sleepy or burned-out during the day.

You said "I keep a record of my treatment with the machines software. It proves my treatment is working, plus my doctor sees me 4 times yearly, for tests and checkups and can prove that I am not a threat." I understand what you are saying, but just for the sake of playing devils advocate, what if they did not take your doctor's word that your treatment was working? What if they sent you to their independent doctor instead. What if that doctor would not accept your printed-out reports, or gave you the same kind of attitude I got when my first sleep doc told me I was not qualified to have data?

Most people on CPAP have nothing more than compliance data, if they even have that. My insurance does not ask for proof of compliance. And proof of compliance doesn't mean therapy is working. As high as my mask leak rate was, I seriously doubt if my first month of CPAP therapy was doing much for me. Now, after two months of watching the data and making small adjustments, I am finally seeing AHI numbers under 5. Along with that, I am finally starting to feel more alert and less sleepy in the afternoons. I think my brain is starting to come back (at least I hope so).

As far as seat belts go, I feel more safe using one. That is, if the seat belt fits properly and doesn't try to strangle me. My wife and I have extra sets of seat belt extensions for fords and chevys that I throw in the ice chest if I plan to ride in someone else's car (or a rental car). (This is Arizona, I take my ice chest everywhere I go.)