The Future Of American's Health Care?

[Uncle_Bob]

I wonder what type of CPAP machine he needs that costs £700 (US $1120) ?

Oh, never mind. I know: One that is purchased by a government bureaucrat with other people's money.

It would need to be purchased by the NHS trust responsible for the area in which he lives. Some trusts do better than others and as a result there is treatment ranging from go and buy your own to a full data machine and humidifier.
When deciding where to live in the UK one might want to consider how well managed the local NHS trust is doing especially if you do not have supplementary private insurance, much like you would look into how well the public school system (other peoples money) is performing if you had kids.

EDIT : Also the article refers to the Welsh NHS which is different from the English NHS. But both systems do consider Sleep Apnea to be part of the health system.

[WNJ]

Due to the non-democratic rules of the Senate, it would appear at this point that “the future of America’s health care” is pretty much the same as the past – private insurance companies, with little or no competition, gouging the public on premiums (one-third of which goes to overhead, not paid out in treatments to the insured,) paying multi-million dollar salaries to executives, and finding “innovative” ways of denying treatment to the insured (everyone knows government can’t touch the private sector for innovation.)

It appears that Americans will be denied the choice of choosing a government-run health care insurance plan, except of course for qualifying veterans (VA healthcare) and most folks 65 and older (Medicare) and the some of the poor (Medicaid,) even though the majority of Americans would like this choice.

(I’ll not bore you with details of how our private health insurance system has denied necessary medical care to both my wife and to me.)

I come here sometimes to read about XPAP and perhaps make an occasional useful contribution. If the owners of this site are going to turn it into another vehicle for right-wing fear-mongering (however subtly) I will find more useful ways to pass my time.

There are plenty of other internet sites to discuss politics, if I were so inclined.

Wayne

[-SWS]

John Whale fears obstructive sleep apnoea could kill him but the NHS cannot afford to pay for a £700 machine to stop his airway collapsing at night.

The Future Of American's Health Care?

I suppose predictions about what might happen to U.S. Healthcare based on U.K. anecdotes make for interesting speculation. But there's really no need to speculate about what might happen in the future if you take issue with that sort of financial nonsense in healthcare...

Equivalent patient-expenditure anecdotes are without question a current American healthcare reality:

My copay was $890 for a dumb ResMed Escape -- what a rip off.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46325&p=415953&hilit=copay#p415850

If that kind of healthcare financial nonsense is your worry, the future is here! And Merry Political Christmas to you too, Johnny!

[johnnygoodman]

Johnny, I am surprised that you, as the owner of Cpap.com would take a political position on health care. I am not surprised at a lot of the conservative nonsense, and scare tactics expressed here by members, as approximately 38% of the population of the USA is conservative (NOTE that 52% is considered centrist to liberal, and in overall polls, 72% of ALL people surveyed wanted some form of national health care). However, as the owner of the company, it is a bit disturbing to me that you take a public position on something that is divisive, and controversial. Many here, like myself, are longtime customers, who come here to discuss sleep apnea. IN addition, you have customers from countries that do have universal health care, and they surely aren't in agreement for the most part (that is borne out on the forums, where Canadians differ significantly from some of their American counterparts). It is inevitable that there would be political discussion from all of us. However, you are in a difficult position, given that you do business with those of us who are pro healthcare, and anti-universal health care. To say I am surprised and disappointed is an understatement. I've always regarded cpap.com as the best DME out there, and kind of expected that the owner/chief spokesman would not take a controversial position that would influence or upset individuals with differing viewpoints. I kinda expect that sensationalism to emanate from Rooster, or Link, or some of the other zealots, but you?

Howdy Autopapdude,

CPAP.com is now large enough that every time I open my mouth I offend someone. Given this, I've resolved to just talk and let things fall where they may.

If I did NOT own CPAP.com, would I then be clear to tell you what I really think? This line of reasoning seems unfair to me. I'd think that because I own a business, especially a healthcare business, my opinion would valid and maybe even valued. I have a front row seat to this rodeo. I've been in the smoky back rooms, I've watched patients be sold down the river, I know how, when and why it happens.

There's this idea that because I own a business, I should shut up so that my bottom line is maximized. Maybe that's the case. Perhaps you will read this, not like it and take it out on my pocketbook. That seems weird to me though. Wouldn't you rather someone who was upfront and honest with you, even if you disagreed? Have you ever read a Respironics press release? Gosh! It talks for 2 pages and says nothing. Is that the kind of dialog that I should be striving to build with CPAP users? If I'm fool and making a mistake, so be it, at least I'm authentic.

I want to take up the concept of a business owner with this post. Here we go...

I'm a capitalist, both philosophically and practically. I run my family's business for profit. I'm proud of this and consider it the proper way for individuals to relate to each other - value for value. CPAP.com is the best out there and it would not be if I ran it any other way.

I also care about CPAP users and am concerned about the practices of our industry. The shareholders of our company spend a lot of money to run product challenges, build wikis and keep CPAPtalk up an example of what can and should be. This is good and right to do, I'm proud of this.

Why do I have to choose between being a capitalist and doing good things? I don't see much of a conflict there, but the implicit message I keep running into is "you must choose one". I don't agree and I don't get it. I think its an unfair assumption. CPAP.com does good things for profit. CPAPtalk.com does good things to set an example of how it should be. Both good.

I also think our healthcare system would be a lot better than it were made up of hundreds of thousands of CPAP.com's. We need a ton of specialists filling small niches doing one thing way better than anyone else. Then we need 10 other companies coming into their niche and trying to do it better. Most importantly, we need the customer to be the one holding the money and only handing it over when quality service or product have been rendered. Without that aspect, the person who serves is not accountable to the person being served. The result is the system of big insurance you see today. If big insurance is the capitalist alternative to government run healthcare, we are screwed. Neither provides effective care care now and neither can. Even if well intentioned, its structurally impossible.

I don't think many understand this. It is too complex to be boiled into a sound byte. You have lived it in your CPAP experience. Consider carefully your local DME and CPAP.com. Consider the systems and approaches they represent. Why are they different? What makes them so? Which direction will the current proposals of our elected officials take us in, to the DME or to CPAP.com?

You say you can't believe I've spoken up. CPAP.com is the change I want for the world. It is my opinion personified. It is my business, my monument, my opinion and my actions. It speaks more loudly than I can yell. I'm proud to be judged by it and I note that you've been pleased to use it due to its performance. Is there not a contradiction there? Is the best solution to that contradiction to go across the street to another capitalist healthcare provider?

Johnny

[Autopapdude]

Is the best solution to that contradiction to go across the street to another capitalist healthcare provider?

In other words, you don't care that about my business? If I disagree with you politically, and voice my objections, I should go "across the street to another healthcare provider?" Do you really mean that? This is even more shocking that you'd be that denigrating of a long term customer so as to say "if you don't like what I say, get lost!" Is this capitalism, or arrogance?

[johnnygoodman]

Is the best solution to that contradiction to go across the street to another capitalist healthcare provider?

In other words, you don't care that about my business? If I disagree with you politically, and voice my objections, I should go "across the street to another healthcare provider?" Do you really mean that? This is even more shocking that you'd be that denigrating of a long term customer so as to say "if you don't like what I say, get lost!" Is this capitalism, or arrogance?

My point is that we're all capitalist providers. Through our actions, you can see pretty clearly where we stand on this issue.

Johnny

[Autopapdude]

My point is that we're all capitalist providers. Through our actions, you can see pretty clearly where we stand on this issue.

Johnny

I am respectfully NOT questioning your role as a capitalist provider. In fact, I have recommended you to lots of people, who are as equally capitalist as am I. I had disagreed with your opinion, which as far as I know is covered under first Amendment provisions, and my feeling that as a provider, it might be more tactful NOT to advocate one way or another regarding health care. Lots of people can easily afford durable medical equipment, and others cannot. As such, alternatives for treatment should be out there, and I have always been of the opinion that your company does provide good value and service. Once again, I express shock at what I consider an overreaction on your part, and hope you really don't mean to castigate a long term customer over a matter of OPINION.

Happy Holidays,

Autopapdude

[Slinky]

Come on, AKCPAPDude, Johny asked a question:

... Is the best solution to that contradiction to go across the street to another capitalist healthcare provider? ...

That certainly is NOT, as you said, ...

... denigrating of a long term customer so as to say "if you don't like what I say, get lost!" ...

[-SWS]

I think we ALL need to advocate our OWN views.

I'm completely with Voltaire on that preeminent of all issues:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

[gasp]

That would be a basic machine that doesn't record any data.

and isn't flexible - after all, we only need one big woosh of air to keep the airways open.

[timbalionguy]

I think what Johnny has done with CPAP.com and this list ARE what the future of healthcare should be. Free market enterprise has always provided better service and lower prices. I am always amazed at how well thought-out sites, like CPAP.com do to help make this difficult process easier. I got great service at fair prices. What traditional, regulated health care entity is going to give you that? Very few or none, because the system we now have in this country is essentially a regulated monopoly. The profits for 'helping' sick people are obscene, and the service is of significantly variable quality.

We need to open our entire health care system up like the online CPAP market is. People that want to stay in business will have to offer good service, and low prices. This would clear a lot of the greed out of the system, reduce health care costs across the board, and foster real innovation in health care.

I think the example Johnny picked out is going to be an example of what is to come as 'death panels' decide what health care we wil get, at tremendous expense.

Kudos to you Johnny for all you do! And Merry Christmas/Happy New Years!

[LSAT]

I get a kick out of people that think being on Medicare is a good deal. Especially those 55-65 who want to buy in early.
The government said that early enrolees, under the new plan, would pay the 'cost' of medicare. (I think this idea is being scrapped).

Part A....Free if over 65...???? if under 65
Part B....96.50 month
Suppliment (average)...165.00 month
Part D Prescription.(average)....$40.00 month.
(It may be somewhat cheaper with a Medicare Advantage plan, but there are many additional co-pays for Doctor and Hospital)

Those on Medicare with Free Part A still pay about $300.00 per month per person PLUS Prescription co-pays....That's over $7000 per couple per year.

Age 55-65 with the opportunity to "buy in" would pay about the same PLUS the cost of Part A...An article I read in a Money or Kiplinger Magazine indicated that it problibly would be cheaper for the 55-65 crowd to shop the private insurance market. (They estimated the cost to be upwards of $10-12,000 per couple per year).

[YawnGirl]

I was trying to compare what his benefits were compared to mine...

My group insurance offered through my employer (I pay $140 per month) paid for my sleep studies, I paid $35 per visit to my sleep doc and I paid for my equipment because my deductible is so high. If the gentleman in Welsh does not have to pay for sleep studies or office copays, I paid more.

[Uncle_Bob]

Those on Medicare with Free Part A still pay about $300.00 per month per person PLUS Prescription co-pays....That's over $7000 per couple per year.

Can you get a company to insure you for all your pre existing conditions at that age for 10-12K a year? If not then $7000 is a deal because its more than likely to be the only realistic deal

[-SWS]

I wonder what type of CPAP machine he needs that costs £700 (US $1120) ?

Oh, never mind. I know: One that is purchased by a government bureaucrat with other people's money.

If the co-pay of $890 I have quoted below is the smaller portion of total machine price, the $1120 U.K. price comes in very low compared to some of the current U.S. healthcare nonsense...

My copay was $890 for a dumb ResMed Escape -- what a rip off. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46325&p=415953&hilit=copay#p415850

Absolutely no bells and whistles on the above U.S. offering at a bargain price of only $890 co-pay plu$ typical behind-the-$cene$ U.S. healthcare corporate greed co$t$...