Canadian relatives and friends: I am worried about you

[cinco777]

diboja, thanks for providing a detailed example of how the Canadian medical system provided you and your loved ones with quality care for a variety of medical conditions. Your experiences and those of other Canadians on this forum provide strong rebuttals to the many scare stories that opponents of a USA Public Insurance Option are spreading here in the USA. These scare stories, even if partially true, would require that we immediately put up a barbed wire fence, moat, etc. to keep all of you medically disadvantaged Canadians from crossing the 3000 mile border joining us (add another 1500 border miles for Alaska). The fact that we don't have a problem with crazed medically demanding Canadians entering the USA speaks volumes to how baseless the scare stories actually are.

I am not Canadian and, although I have visited numerous Canadian cities, I have never had to obtain medical treatment for me or my family while in your country. However, I have friends in two provinces and we have talked over the years about our medical problems, some of which are the same, and our experiences. Their experiences for the same procedures were usually more positive than mine - shorter waits, better communications, less stressful, with better outcomes. If my wife and I weren't sun-loving warm-weather loving Californians, we would be living in Canada.

[Froro]

Well Rebecca that is excellent to know!!!! (especially the Klein four letter word imagery) gives me faith. We'll all be kumbayaing soon! woohoo.

Some of what I said was with a little tongue in cheek but it is what my impression has always been (from the 70's on). Blame the CBC commentaries on their news website...LOL. Mind you, everyone on there is pretty polarized and insane. If you ever want to purposely bang your head against a wall go read there.
I venture over periodically when I need a laugh or just to shake my head.

[BlackSpinner]

This goes especially for elective surgery. He could just push away from the table, he could get counseling, he took a short cut so he wouldn't have to take the effort to use self discipline, which is why most provinces won't waste bed time on these kinds of services.

I'm sorry... but speaking as one who has battled obesity since my system was screwed up by doctors in 1976 (prior to that, I weighed 135 pounds), there is nothing which makes me more furious than to hear,


I eat a lousy 1500 calories a day. My caloric output is between 2500 and 3000. And I'm not losing weight. So this "just control yourself" is totally unacceptable to me.

I am going by my brother in law - who also did the medical tourism route to get the surgery. My sister would try very hard to make healthy meals, then he would go out for a snack of a few cheese burgers... and complain the diet didn't work. Now he pukes if he tries it. Very few people really can't lose weight due to physical health problems, most of them have a problem between the ears - called addiction which they don't want to deal with because it takes work.

[Kiralynx]

I am going by my brother in law - who also did the medical tourism route to get the surgery. My sister would try very hard to make healthy meals, then he would go out for a snack of a few cheese burgers... and complain the diet didn't work. Now he pukes if he tries it. Very few people really can't lose weight due to physical health problems, most of them have a problem between the ears - called addiction which they don't want to deal with because it takes work.

Maybe there is something about brother-in-laws. Mine is very overweight, and diabetic. My sister prepares healthy meals for him, and then he comes home with five pounds of M&Ms which are gone within a week.

While there may be people who have "food addictions" -- usually to starches and sugars -- there are plenty of people who have been denied adequate medical care because it is assumed that if they cared about their health, they wouldn't keep stuffing their faces. I lost a dear friend in 1994 to ovarian cancer that went undiagnosed because my friend's doctors insisted that if she would "just lose a little weight, it would all clear up." By the time they were willing to do surgery, her cancer was Stage IV.

Since I have lost 180 pounds, it would seem that if I continued doing what I did to lose the 180, I should be able to lose the rest. It's not working that way.

[Wulfman]

Earlier today, when I was reading this thread, something triggered a thought about something I believed I had heard sometime in the past, so, I did a search on "Canadian doctors leaving for the U.S.", and came up with quite a few links.

This is not meant to generate a debate or anything like that, it's just for "informational purposes" as I was actually curious as to how many doctors ARE leaving Canada to practice is the U.S..

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/article34.htm

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/161/8/1028

A post in the comments in this link led to the next link.
http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2009/10/a ... nada-.html

Interesting posts below this one.
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427

http://www.chsrf.ca/mythbusters/html/myth29_e.php

http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Conten ... ct9_en.pdf

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news ... fe&k=68609


Den

[Froro]

Cinco, someone earlier mentioned overall satisfaction but needing to wait for several weeks to see their GP (family doctor), and that many don't shop around for a new one when you find one.

We kept our doctor in the City after we moved to the burbs for this very reason. We trusted him and the hour drive to get to him didn't really feel like a big deal. For those times when we needed to see a doctor quickly there are always numerous walk in clinics available to see a doctor. Many walk in clinics are acting as the traditional Family doctor would for a large portion of the population.

I like to have a family doctor as I prefer to have a single doctor overseeing our health care as a family unit as well as someone who overseas all of the varying specialists.

We had to find a new doctor this past year as ours was retiring. I'm somewhat particular and need a doctor who understands my need for knowledge and involvement in our care vs someone who just hands out scripts. I found one and we love him!! He is the one who identified the potential for OSA, who arranged for me to get to an OBGYN for the surgery I just had. Everything was done in a timely manner. If I call the office during the day and one of the kids is sick, or needs stitches I've never had to wait to get in for an appointment. I may wait a bit in the waiting room itself but we've been able to get into see him same day every time.

With regards how I got through the OSA situation? I was referred to a sleep lab. Next day I was called for an appointment the following day for the sleep study. Had the sleep study done and was called back same day to return for titration. (I didn't go back same day as I was kind of freaked out about the whole thing). I returned within a week for my titration.

Two weeks later I met with the sleep doctor and got my script and sent to the DME. Did I have issues with the DME? Yes. But on that note, the provincial health care plan covered over $800 the cost of my equipment. I have private insurance that covered the balance. The DME was the only private part of the process and the one I had the worst experience with.

We carry private insurance for the extras. If we are hospitalized and want a private room, Insurance will cover it, otherwise we have always been admitted into a semi private shared room. (which is no biggie for me and costs my insurance company nothing) Our private insurance covers chirpractors, physio, massage etc.

Hope that helps.

Wulfman. I know several people who left to go to the US to Practise. They were never shy of why they were leaving. Money. I don't begrudge anyone leaving to pursue the financial side of things if that is what they want. Personally, I'm more comfortable with someone more concerned about my actual care than being a millionair. On that note, none of my friends who are doctors are living in the poor house in Canada. The cost of procedures is what the government controls. you can't charge a patient more than "this" type thing Specific values and numbers I don't have I'm afraid.

[WillSucceed]

Hey Rooster:

I warms my little Canadian heart that you are worried for me and mine! Thank you so much!!

God knows that us hicks living here in the land of the dreaded, rights-limiting, freedoms-robbing, universal health care system can't sleep at night, not because of our OSA, but because we are worried sick. What with being told what to eat, where to work, what we can and can't say... I'm frantic with despair! And worst of all, we are taxed (oh the shame) for health care that is available to every citizen of Canada. Yes Rooster, EVERY citizen, right across this country, from sea to shining sea. Oops! I think that "sea to shining sea" thing is a line from a famous song that I've heard somewhere... hmmmmmm.

I appreciate your concern Rooster, really, I do. Even though Canada's universal health care system has flaws, I'm absolutely prepared to pay taxes to keep it functioning, hope that it will improve, would not give it up for love nor money AND honestly hope that you folks in the US find a system that works for all of your people. I think that the USA is a great country and I'd like to see it stay that way; can't help but think that anything which makes for quality health care for all of your citizens can only be a good thing. A healthy population can only make a great country greater.

I forgot to mention. I saw my GP the other day for a referral to the sleep lab as I had not had a sleep study for a little over 2 years. He faxed in the referral and I saw the sleep Dr. a week later. I was offered a sleep study for that same evening, if I wanted it that fast. I picked a date about a week later that suited my schedule. I had the sleep study and was back in to see the sleep Dr. a few days later to get the report and a script for a new autopap. Sure we have wait times for different things; the system is far from perfect. However, this business of having to fight with an insurance company for coverage? Does not exist here in Canada. Going bankrupt to pay for medical care? Does not exist here in Canada.

[Muse-Inc]

...I'm at a loss on this statement. How can a person not lose weight if they burn up to two times the calories that they are consuming?

Body systems are based on organic reactions; they cannot be equated to a simplistic calories in = calories out. Oxidation via biochemistry is not like reducing food to ash in a reactor which bears no relationship to our organic processes. Differences in individual genetics and ongoing availability of enzymes-vitamins-minerals-water (supplier of free hydrogen atoms that drive many biochemical reastions) make for sizeable differences amongst us re how our bodies respond to food. On a very low-carb diet, sometimes I might eat thousands of calories and huge amts of fat and lose as do many others whose genetics predisposes them to this pattern of eating; have a friend who does only does well on high carb and easily gains eating a moderate fat diet and absolutely gains on a high-fat diet; we can only eat together when we eat completely different meals. We do not have the same genetics which predispose us to only maintaining max health on different eating patterns.

[cinco777]

I just posted the following to another thread concerning Universal Health Care and thought that some of the folks following this thread may be interested.

by cinco777 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:52 pm

Nine Canadians out of ten support the principle of Universal Health Care with a single insurer - the Government.

A detailed analysis of the results for this recent Poll of 1,005 Canadians (October 10 - 18, 2009) is provided for the four questions asked of each respondent:

1) What do you think is the key strength of the Canadian Health Care System?
2) What do you think is the key weakness of the Canadian Health Care System?
3) Thinking of the Canadian Health Care System do you support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, or oppose Universal Health Care?
4) Do you think that President Barack Obama is on the right track or the wrong track when it comes to making changes to the Health Care System in the United States?

If you are interested, as I was, in the responses to these questions, check out the following link:

http://medicare.ca/wp-content/uploads/2 ... s-poll.pdf

[cinco777]

Body systems are based on organic reactions; they cannot be equated to a simplistic calories in = calories out.

Can you point me to some studies that provide tables/charts/graphs/diagrams that show what is happening re these genetic biologically different processes? I'd like to change my mindset on my simplistic calories in = calories out view of gaining/losing weight and I learn quickest from viewing "the numbers" about something that interests me. Thanks.

[Muse-Inc]

...Can you point me to some studies that provide tables/charts/graphs/diagrams that show what is happening re these genetic biologically different processes? I'd like to change my mindset on my simplistic calories in = calories out view of gaining/losing weight and I learn quickest from viewing "the numbers" about something that interests me. Thanks.

This would be challenging for me to find. I first learned that the speed and efficiency of organic reactions depended on the availability of all the needed constituents in the right percentages when I was in high school chemistry...and that was just after implemenation of electric lighting . It's a concept that was strengthed by college organic and inorganic chem...those terms aren't used anymore, it was that long ago! I have read nothing since that changes what I learned back then. In fact, the more I read about genetics and human nutrition, the more my early education is re-confirmed. The amt of calories is a given food is based on measurements taken as it is reduced (burned) to ash...unlike what occurs in the body. I have not found a good layment's biochemistry course because the durn subject is so complex...body systems are all inter-related, inter-dependent, and affect each other so much it's a challenge to understand any system in isolation (and trying to learn them all at once is nigh impossible which is why our docs are challenged to integrate much of the latest info into their mindsets, like nutrition-supplements which are so often given short shrift). Then, there's the whole genetics issue that's adds another layer of complexity. Mom just got her Newsweek, which I immediately grabbed, to read about healthcare and there's a section on healthcare-dieting based on genetics...intriguing but as they state it's in its infancy. But, we know that several types of drugs react differently based on gender and based on genetics. If I come across anything helpful, re the numbers I'll post.

[BlackSpinner]

Body systems are based on organic reactions; they cannot be equated to a simplistic calories in = calories out.

Can you point me to some studies that provide tables/charts/graphs/diagrams that show what is happening re these genetic biologically different processes? .

I have also read about it - but not on the net so I can't give you a link but what I was reading about was Native Americans and it was related to diabetes. I know that the idea of eating what your ancestors ate is indicated. The fact that 80% of Europeans can digest raw milk while 80% of the rest of the world can comes into it. The only thing I can find right now that vaguely connects is http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/ about epignomes - things which switch your genes on and off which can be based on what you eat and passed down.
Also the digestibility of gluten needs to be considered - a quite substantial part of the population can not digest gluten and it causes all sorts of problems which are often not recognized.
Then there is a genetic disease which produces a moon shaped face and hump which causes people to retain weight.

[Rebecca R]

Then there is a genetic disease which produces a moon shaped face and hump which causes people to retain weight.

BlackSpinner: That is Cushing's Disease.

There was a study that was featured on television in which an entire Aboriginal community (I think it was in B.C.) ate a diet similar to their ancestors and the unusually high levels of diabetes improved. It was a high protein diet I think. People also lost weight. Does that sound familiar?

Individual metabolism is not simple. There are just so many factors. Thyroid disease runs in my family and even with the medication some are unable to lose weight.

R

[BlackSpinner]

Thanks yes that is the one.

My ancestry is Dutch, and when I eat fish, cheese, multigrains and vegetables I feel good. I don't like meat much. It makes me feel stuffed, bloated and if I eat a lot of meat I break out. I don't have much of a sweet tooth either. I am over weight right now (for the first time in my life) because I have been eating emotionally ( and to stay awake before cpap) . Never in my life have I eaten for comfort so this need feels bizarre. I never used to eat unless I was hungry and stopped when I was full (drove my mother nuts as a kid) I am working to deal with the issue and learn some other coping skills. I want my waist back.

My mother was heavily involved in the diabetes society and politics in Alberta so she was the one who made me aware of the Native issues.

[goose]

I find the descriptions of the Canadian system as socialism to be laughable (usually made by people who haven't a clue what socialism is....They've just been told it's bad, so they run with it!! Dogma).
I'm really happy to see the many Canadians that have posted here providing some truth refuting the demagoguery that's spouted by the nay-sayers and fear mongers that obviously have no "real" understanding of how the system really works in the "Great White North", or how the proposed system here in USA will work.
What has been said here pretty much mirrors what I hear from many of my Canadian friends (oh crap ....and some are from Alberta.....One from Edmonton to be more specific, and I don't sense a "conservative" bone in her body. Oh yeah. She had a baby a bit over a year ago. Her paid maternity leave was 1 year......anywhere in the States that can match that??? In USA companies, you're lucky to get 12 weeks!!!!!)....

Unfortunately the issue is steeped in politics as usual, and when things get politicized nothing tends to happens because the greedheads we call representatives (and stupidly re-elect time after time) concentrate more on getting re-elected than on what's right. People like Rooster have absolutely no clue how the proposed system is defined, only what their pointed politicized information system provides them (actually, that's not as derogatory as it may sound on the surface because truth be known, nobody really knows what it'll be - not even the moroons that are having to vote on it) - To them, it's very, "don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up".

Our system is very broken. It has been for over 50 years, and every time someone tries to change anything these demagogues raise their heads up and scream "Socialism". Bullshit. (sorry. Couldn't help myself!!) There are certain people that don't want any change for any reason. Change scares hell out of them because it might disturb their false sense of comfort. These are people that cannot and will not think outside the box.

Do I think what is being proposed is all good?? Nope!!!!
Do I think what is being proposed is all bad?? Nope!!!!

What I do see being proposed is fundamental change to a broken system, and that is a good thing.
It's totally screwed up now, and I can't even see the "government" making it much worse (and for me, that's saying something)????

They need to get off their asses and DO SOMETHING!!! Even if it's not 100% right. It can be fixed over time, but you have to start somewhere, and this is as good a starting point as any. If it takes "government" to bring the insurance companies into reality, so be it!!!! The "capitalist free market" solution isn't necessarily always the best solution and I certainly haven't read or heard anything in the proposals that puts the fear of god into me.....

Just some thoughts from the left coast......
cheers
goose