Canadian relatives and friends: I am worried about you

Froro wrote: ...... I don't know many Albertan's first hand but the ones I do are pretty "American" in their thinking. I can't really explain that properly, but interpret that negatively ....

Taking the gloves off with the "condescending gratuitous comments". Good for you!

(I am a bad influence on people. )

rooster wrote:

Froro wrote: ...... I don't know many Albertan's first hand but the ones I do are pretty "American" in their thinking. I can't really explain that properly, but interpret that negatively ....

Taking the gloves off with the "condescending gratuitous comments". Good for you!

(I am a bad influence on people. )

OMG!!! that will teach me not to proof read!!! I MEANT to say "DON"T interpret that negatively. Obviously I think faster than I type!!

Mea culpa!

cinco777 wrote:

I eat a lousy 1500 calories a day. My caloric output is between 2500 and 3000

I'm at a loss on this statement. How can a person not lose weight if they burn up to two times the calories that they are consuming?

Yes, I would like to understand that also. I repeated that mantra (burn more than you eat and you will lose weight) to a GP friend recently and he told me the human body is not as simple as a machine and that this rule does not hold. We were interrupted before he could explain it to me.

Maybe K can enlighten us on the science.

Let's feed her GOLD fercryinoutloud, and screw the Senate Bill. She could single-handedly finance Auto's plan to make us ALL "universally healthy"!!!

Froro wrote:

rooster wrote:

Froro wrote: ...... I don't know many Albertan's first hand but the ones I do are pretty "American" in their thinking. I can't really explain that properly, but interpret that negatively ....

Taking the gloves off with the "condescending gratuitous comments". Good for you!

(I am a bad influence on people. )

OMG!!! that will teach me not to proof read!!! I MEANT to say "DON"T interpret that negatively. Obviously I think faster than I type!!

Mea culpa!

Froreudian slip?

Heck, I thought I had found another sparring partner.

Well, from among all the posts on this board about problems with their sleep doctors and DME's in the United States, it is so refreshing to see someone bash the Canadian health care plans for purely political purposes. I for one am so happy with the U.S. system that I decided to have my sleep study (as well as practically all my health care) done in Thailand where (perhaps surprisingly to some) I could get much better health care in that third-world country (at one of the top hospitals worldwide) than I am accustomed to in the United States.

Since this board is "CPAPtalk" I suspect it would be interesting to the community if rather than use the board to make blatant political points that are not terribly relevant to the board's purpose, there were at least an attempt to compare treatment of sleep disorders in the U.S. and Canada. For example, how long do people in each country have to wait for their sleep study (in Thailand, at a world-class hospital accredited by the JCI, there is virtually no wait, unlike what I often read here about sleep-study waiting lists in the United States). Also, what types of equipment are made available to the patients? It appears in the United States the insureds have to fight to get anything other than a basic CPAP machine. largely because the profit motives of the DME's almost compel them to provide the cheapest equipment possible. Without knowing the answer, I would be interested in the experiences of CPAP users in Canada: do they have to suffer through the same sorts of problems with their health care plans that those with health insurance in the United States have to suffer through in order to get adequate treatment for OSA (for example)?

I really don't care much about the labels "socialist" (with some sort of government rationing, or cost controls) or "capitalist" (with insurance company rationing or cost controls). I suppose some would call it "rationing" if the government does it, but "all-American capitalism" when the insurance companies do the same, but this sort of labeling gets ridiculous. How about a focused discussion instead on how those of us with sleep disorders such as OSA are treated by the two systems (unfortunately, I cannot contribute much to the comparison because even though I have health insurance I have essentially opted out of receiving health care in the United States--at least to the extent I can)? And I suppose for purposes of discussion we could agree for now to simply ignore the 30, 40, or 50 million people in the United States who aren't treated for anything effectively for lack of health insurance.

LinkC wrote:

cinco777 wrote:

I eat a lousy 1500 calories a day. My caloric output is between 2500 and 3000

I'm at a loss on this statement. How can a person not lose weight if they burn up to two times the calories that they are consuming?

Yes, I would like to understand that also. I repeated that mantra (burn more than you eat and you will lose weight) to a GP friend recently and he told me the human body is not as simple as a machine and that this rule does not hold. We were interrupted before he could explain it to me.

Maybe K can enlighten us on the science.

Let's feed her GOLD fercryinoutloud, and screw the Senate Bill. She could single-handedly finance Auto's plan to make us ALL "universally healthy"!!!

Suggest you do some research into gut biology.

Some of us have what I call "termite syndrome." Wrong mix of bacteria in the gut, and the blasted bacteria break down the fiber and celluose and other crap that we humans don't normally digest. Result: the bacteria create additional calories to be consumed.

It's not a mechanical "calories in and calories out.

In addition, I have lymphedema issues relating to my cancer surgery. My "weight" can change by 30 pounds, easily, in the space of a few days. Up or down.

I can't find a couple of my references just now, but the Pennington Institute up at Baton Rouge has found that people with certain mixes of bacteria do, indeed, have obesity issues that go beyond diet and exercise -- and that if you change the bacterial mix, these people can lose weight. There's a $500 experimental test one can undergo to find out if this is the case, but insurance doesn't cover it, and I've been too busy making sure I have back-up CPAP equipment, and helping care for my dying mother to consider funding it for myself.

So far as I know, gut bacteria do not digest gold and produce more gold. Be ironic if the Philosopher's Stone turned out to be bacteria. Plus, as Spain discovered when they brought back the gold of the New World, too much gold crashes the economy as thoroughly as anything, since, with an abundance of gold, the value of the gold goes down.


Edited to add a few links of interest:


Why Obesity Is Not a Lifestyle Choice
http://labs.pbrc.edu/endocrinology/docu ... 090324.pdf

Obesity As An Infectious Disease
http://www.pbrc.edu/About_Us/The_Explor ... yeeID=2449

Inflammation in Obesity
http://www.pbrc.edu/Post_Docs/Mentor_Bi ... yeeID=1407

Obesity Goes Viral?
http://www.drsharma.ca/obesity-goes-viral.html

Infectobesity: Obesity of Infectious Origin
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abs ... 1/10/2794S

Obesity & Bacteria
http://www.fbmc.fcen.uba.ar/~32-2-2008/ ... nomics.pdf

Wait time? What wait time?

My mom broke her hip at 3pm and at 11pm the next day she was in surgery having it repaired.

I go see my doc and wait maybe 10 minutes to get in for the appointment.

The longest medical related wait time I have had was yestereday... a little over 2 hours for the H1N1 shot.

Wait time? What wait time?

My mom broke her hip at 3pm and at 11pm the next day she was in surgery having it repaired.

I go see my doc and wait maybe 10 minutes to get in for the appointment.

The longest medical related wait time I have had was yestereday... a little over 2 hours for the H1N1 shot.

Rooster is just pulling his anti-universal healthcare nonsense. He didn't even provide a source for the long article. It is probably from some 4th level tabloid, trying to cash in on the negativity that is abundant in US healthcare debates. He and a few other "anti-healthcare reform" folks spout whatever they want, and it becomes gospel, just because they uttered it.

Kiralynx wrote:So far as I know, gut bacteria do not digest gold and produce more gold.

Without knowing, maybe it's worth a shot... So far as I know, a 100lbs or so of new gold won't wreck our economy. I'd risk it...

Alberta is a bit of a wierd Province.

Hey, watch who you call weird. I live in Alberta and, though I may be weird, I happen to know the entire province isn't.

Ultra conservative generally.

I have heard rumors of the existence Ultra Conservatives, but have never actually met one. I think they all live down south. In many circles the word "Klein" is a four letter word.

Alberta and Ontario pretty much have a hate on for each other historically so it's hard to call. (Blame Trudeau...and maybe hockey)

Really? First I have heard of this. In the 80's many people came from Ontario seeking work. We thought the provinces had merged. We didn't ask newcomers where they were from, we asked where in Ontario they were from. We learned important cultural differences like the existence of a 2-4 and the importance of never, ever calling someone from the East a "goof" (especially if a 2-4 was consumed first). The real rivalry is Calgary and Edmonton.

Seriously though. our health care system is far from perfect. I wouldn't want to loose it. Waiting lists to see specialists are way too long when we aren't considered to be seriously ill. When we are seriously injured or ill the health care system looks after us.

r

My only problem with health care in Ontario is the wait time.

Paul - you say, "What wait?" Your mother had an emergency situation. she fell and fractured her hip. She didn't have a wait in that case.

I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and am heading for a shoulder replacement. I will be put on a 10 month waiting list. Not good! The surgeon has a some emergency slots available and, if my shoulder becomes really unbearable all the time, I can get one of those slots.

I had a couple of other joints replaced 15 years ago and had 4 months wait for one and about 2 months for the other.

The wait times, for elective surgery, as this is classified, is getting longer. I could go to another Ontario city and get it done much quicker but probably won't do that. The surgeons here have great reputations so I will wait. I've seen some botched ones from surgeons in other smaller cities and I would rather live with it until I can get it done here.

I still think Canada has a good health care systems. Like most systems, it is always in need of "fixing".

Suggest you do some research into gut biology.

I research things that affect me. I ask questions (takes less time) about things that I am curious about.

I was curious about your statement re calories in and calories out. Thanks for providing some information to satisfy my curiosity. Good luck in your struggle and stomp on a few of those incorrigible bacteria for me - they have it coming.

rooster wrote:When we get our new socialized medicine and fall to your level, where will you go for excellent treatment?

The article you posted is no different from articles that I have read about the US system.
Each country has its own difficulties and issues.

I reside in Canada and Yes, we do have wait times but I can assure you that if a procedure is not elective the system works quite well so that you have your MRI, surgery or whatever done promptly.

I can go to a GP of my choice with no restrictions although we do have problems because there are not enough GP's and once you acquire one you tend not to go "shopping for another. I have never had to wait more than 2-3 weeks to see my GP and in the rare case when I wish to see him about a concerning issue he can usually see me the next day. I never wait more than 10-15 minutes from the appointment time.

Last March I indicated to him my sleep issues and he immediately made arrangements for me to overnite at our Sleep Disorder Clinic where they have a dedicated ward for this problem. It did take me 6 months to have the sleep study done and within two weeks I had an appointment with the Sleep Apnea MD who reviewed the results with me. After that (with a week) I was called by the local Health Supplier (I believe you call them DRE's) and was provided with an auto machine for one month - at the end of one month I was provided with a CPAP machine & necessary equipment.
After having the machine for one month my GP's office called as he wanted to review the Sleep centres analysis and discuss the findings. He will follow up every 6 months with me and as well the Equipment provider will follow up with an annual review, provide a new mask, hose and filters and this is done every year. Machines are changed every 5 years.

I would say that this is very good care and particularly when I did not have to put out one dime from my pocket!!

My grandson was born with a defective heart and within 24 hours he was flown out from our city to a "Gold Standard Pediatric Heart centre" (in Canada) and was operated on immediately. I am very pleased to say that he has done well and is followed up on a continual basis.

I had just seen my GP last week for an annual checkup - full battery of fluid tests, PSA, DRE and when I mentioned that my psoarsis was acting up he arranged for a visit to a skin specialsit which I have an appointment with on Dec 11th and as well he thought it may be wise to have a heart Echo as It has been 2 years since the last - that appointment(with a cardiologist) is on December 17th.

My wife was born with a heart defect and had an operation when she was 16 years old....her Cardiologist has arranged for a conference call with my wife, her Cardio MD and Doctors in London, Ontario to review her status and acceptance for a new surgery which could probably lengthen her life and provide more quality of day to day living.

I could go on and on but the point I am making is that the Canadian system works! It has its pitfalls, waiting lists and could be a helluva lot better.

NONE of this costs us any money out of our pocket. Yes, we have probably paid more taxes over the years than a US citizen would but I will not go bankrupt, we will not be thrown to the side because we can't afford medical treatment, My life is not at the Mercy of some huge for profit insurance company that does not give a damn about me or my family other than to pay their executives millions of bucks.

Each Province (as has been mentioned) has its own little "quirks" and "Rules" but overall the system is basically universal. By the way in my Province all of my medications are paid for AFTER the deductible which is based on annual family income, from a low of 2.7% to 6% http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/pharmacare/estimator.html..
The Province of Ontario has a better Pharmacare med plan than we have....my point is that we will never go broke buying medications.

I just wanted to enlighten you and I can guarantee that what you refer to as socialized medicine is not a frightening, Big Brother thing....In fact the USA is the only nation in the world out of all the Industrialized nations that does not have a form of Socialized medicine.

Don't be afraid Rooster......if you get a system that offers proper medical treatments to all in your country it will definitely be a bonus and the life expectancy of your citizens will rise. You can see where you stand here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

Cheer up - it will be all for the better when you have a form of universal care!!

Yes Hawthorne... the wait times are quite literally painful.

I was just posting what our family recent experiences has been. Health care in Quebec and the town where my mom lives is amazingly good... much better than what I was expecting given recent experience.

I was reading somewhere that Canada has 5000 more doctors on the job than compared to 5 years ago... not exactly sure of the source of that now.

This would appear to be the "original" article.

http://www.muskoka-news.com/article/150808

The responses above from actual Canadians, and what I've heard from my Canadian friends and relatives all seem to say the same thing. Canadian health care is not perfect, but also not the "socialist nightmare" that some people claim it to be. It appears to be at least adequate, and has both advantages and disadvantages over US healthcare. As far as innovation is concerned, I used to work in healthcare (pharmaceuticals), and have worked with innovative and successful companies in Quebec and Ontario.

When I hear someone telling me to panic, be afraid, or in some other way, to act without thinking things through, I always assume they have an agenda they are trying to push, and are best ignored. If someone has a logical reason that they can express without emotionally charged language, then I stop to listen, and evaluate what they say.

Rooster, do you have any real information on specific issues that worry you, that do not involve unsubstantiated claims or doomsday predictions based on "scary", but undefined terms like "SOCIALIST!!!!"? Can you tell me what it is about healthcare reform that you find so much more socialist than medicare or the VA, our highway system, emergency services like police and fire departments, the Post Office, the Department of Defense, or any of the other "tax the people for the common good" services already in existence? Can you define "socialist", other than "different from you", and tell me why it is bad, without meaningless phrases like "un-American"?