I'm on my own in Ontario; as usual!

[jskinner]

Absolutely correct. And I am going to do something about it. These guys are lining their pockets at taxpayer expense with the approval of the Ministry of Health! There's something seriously wrong when I can get a top-notch machine and mask for only a little more than my co-pay to the robber barons at Medigas.

When I got my APAP back in 2006 the very masic machine and the APAP where both covered exactly the same but Medigas negelected to tell me about that. I knew nothing about the machines so I just showed up and took whatever they handed me. Interestingly at the time they where charging more for the Pro than the APAP.

They eventually upgraded me to a Pro still negelecting to tell me that I could have had an APAP without any upgrade fee. Eventually I got the APAP but I had to make a big racket. They don't want you to get an APAP becase they make less money on it since they get the same from the goverment regardless of the machine.

Medigas is terrriable in my opnion.

[Terminator]

What can you do? I would love to see the whole system changed to be more reasonable.

France

For starters, how about I send this nice email to CTVs W-5 program...? If anyone here can tell me why I should not do this or point out any obvious mistakes, I shall re-consider or correct any such mistakes:

Hello...

This email is to inform you of what I see as a serious problem with the Ontario
Government Assistive Devices Program. From the Ministry of Health website: 'The
objective of the Assistive Devices Program (ADP) is to provide consumer centered
support and funding to Ontario residents who have long-term physical disabilities
and to provide access to personalized assistive devices appropriate for the
individual’s basic needs.'

So far, so good. Now for some interesting stuff. I have recently been diagnosed
with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and am qualified to apply for assistance from the
ADP to purchase a CPAP machine and basic mask. My understanding is that the ADP
will fund up to $780.00 for the machine and a mask. I went to the local Medigas
dealer who is sanctioned by the Ontario Government to supply the machine and mask.
Once there, I was shown a Resmed 'C' series Tango CPAP machine and mask. Total
price for the machine and mask: $1040.00; $780.00 from the ADP and $260.00 as my
co-pay. A 'service' package which included some goodies and
consultation time was available for a further $350.00 and extended warranty for the
machine was another $200.00. I asked about a machine with a comfort feature that
reduces CPAP pressure during exhalation and was first told that this was not
available unless prescribed. A follow-up call informed me that the feature was
available but only if I bought the the service package. So now I'm up to a minimum
of $610.00 for a basic CPAP machine with exhalation relief. But why do I have to
buy the service package in order to get it?

Well, the answer to the above question is likely that the Ontario government has
capped the price that may be charged for a CPAP machine to 1040 dollars...
How interesting! That's what Medigas wanted to charge me for the basic
machine without exhalation relief and mask... So to get around the $1040.0 cap,
Medigas, an officially sanctioned retailer, gets more money by selling the enhanced
machine under the guise of a 'service package' if I understood the nice lady on the
phone at Medigas correctly. It's beginning to look like the Ontario governments
assistance through the ADP is a good financial deal; except for one thing...

The Resmed 'C' series Tango CPAP is available from online Resmed dealers for $200.00
to $300.00 dollars. A good quality nasal pillow mask (The Swift II nasal pillow
system) which sells for over $200.00 at Medigas is available online for $89.00 to
$119.00. I ended up buying a top of the line Respironics Remstar auto with
exhalation relief (C-Flex) and
automatic titration (The machine sets required pressure automatically) and a mask
for under $500.00 without help from the ADP. The machine was a demo model with under
3 hours on it. That's a far cry from $1040 plus $350.00.
So by looking for and buying a top of the line C/APAP machine and mask by
myself and doing without the 'help' of the ADP, I saved myself about a hundred
dollars and saved the Ontario taxpayer at least $780.00. If I had bought the same
machine as I had been offered, I would have spent $250.00USD for the machine and
$89.00USD for the mask for a total of about $400.00 Can. saving the taxpayer
$780.00. What's wrong with this
picture???

It gets even more interesting just when you might have thought that the above was
the whole story... Resmed has recently directed their dealers that they are no
longer permitted to ship CPAP machines to Canada. Why would they do that? Might it
be that Resmed has become aware of the ridiculous prices Canadians are having to pay
for CPAP machines as both taxpayers and individuals? Did they order the ban to
protect the profits of the greedy medical suppliers?

I think that this incredible and callous rip-off of Canadians needs to be exposed...
Certainly some kind of change is needed.

My signature

[Froro]

Terminator. I would love to have a chat with you.

I've been working on writing to the Ontario Government and Ministry of Trade (industry) with regards to price gauging, price fixing etc. I'm just waiting for both Ontario and Fed governments to get back to their respective hills and locate someone specifically within the ministries who may be able to address the issues. (I do have contacts at both levels of parliament but everyone is on holidays at the moment and I don't like to mix family/politics at family events, it's kind of a rule to keep our family from killing each other. LOL)

Once the kids are back in school I'll have some time to dedicate to this though.

[Terminator]

Terminator. I would love to have a chat with you.

No problem!

I've been working on writing to the Ontario Government and Ministry of Trade (industry) with regards to price gauging, price fixing etc. I'm just waiting for both Ontario and Fed governments to get back to their respective hills and locate someone specifically within the ministries who may be able to address the issues. (I do have contacts at both levels of parliament but everyone is on holidays at the moment and I don't like to mix family/politics at family events, it's kind of a rule to keep our family from killing each other. LOL)

Once the kids are back in school I'll have some time to dedicate to this though.

I haven't wasted the time to write politicians about this. The only thing that motivates them is public embarrassment.

T

[Froro]

That's why you have to hit the right spot.

[Hawthorne]

I hope, if you two are going to contact W5 (and/or the Governments), that you will make sure each of your issues (cpaps in Ontario) and (price gauging and price fixing) are addressed adequately and maybe separately. If we try to deal with the cpap situation in the broad area of price gouging and price fixing, it may get very lost, since this goes on in so many areas.

I realize there is a relationship here but if too much is addressed, the price of cpaps and the ADP situation for them, may get lost in the bigger picture of price gouging and price fixing in a general sense. I would hate to see that happen.

Also, W5 will likely get some action (or at least attention) quicker than going through the grinding wheels of Government red tape. When the media is approached, more things seem to happen faster.

I like your email Terminator. It certainly spells out the situation well.

[DaleK]

Approaching the price gouging and fixing in Ontario now is timely. CBC.ca had an article on sleep apnea today. This afternoon it was the main page Health headline, but has since been pre-empted by medical use of marijuana.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/08/ ... death.html

Cheers, DaleK

[jdm2857]

Just be aware that the ADP is likely to respond that you need the professional assistance from a DME in order to have the machine properly set up and to teach you how to use it properly, and to make sure your mask is fit properly. And that that service is what the additional money pays for.

I do not believe that the typical DME competently provides most of these sevices to most patients, or that you require the services of a DME. I am just predicting how those rip-off prices will be justified by those responsible for the current mess.

[Froro]

Well. My $2100 got me a my choice of a mask, a bottle of distilled water, cleaning solution, a year of filters, a hose cover made of sweat suit material, and a carrying case.

They did not have me try on the mask, they didn't even turn on the machine. "How are you paying for this?" was what I got. When I had issues with an unusual noise from my machine I ended up having to contact Resmed to intervene (machine was less than two weeks old).

No advice on how any of it worked. "not going to show you the buttons because most patients don't understand them anyway". Alrighty then. Yup, that was exceptional service worth the extra $1000 plus.

Now...on that note. I ended up finding a DME out of the hosp down the street from my house who has been very very helpful, sadly, they aren't my DME but will be next time!!! I ended up there asking all kinds of questions when I ran into trouble with the noises and my own DME passed it off.

I'm sure if CBC were to come to this site and ask for experiences from Canadians they would get an earful.

[jdm2857]

I hate to disillusion you further, but ResMed xPAPs come from the factory with the nice carrying case included.

[Froro]

I was pretty sure they did!! LOL.

[Terminator]

Email sent... If they do get back to me, I will direct them to this website and this thread.

T

[Hawthorne]

DaleK - Thanks for that CBC link! If you follow the responses to the story posted there, you will see that 1 responder has outlined, in their response, exactly what we have been talking about in regard to the cost of cpap equipment in the Province of Ontario and in the rest of Canada. This person talked about the price differences and quoted prices from Canadian cpap providers and online US equipment sellers and questioned why such a difference. It may be possible to go on from this article. Someone else there suggested that the issue of cpap prices in Ontario (and Canada) was also an issue that the CBC should consider reporting on.

I think with that piece, the issue is coming out and people are angry about it. Maybe we can tap in there somehow. Contacting the CBC about a follow up about the price gouging that goes on by cpap equipment providers here may get us somewhere. The CBC did the story (apparently not yet aired) but some of the followup comments could lead to what we want to happen.

I'm going to try and go through the rest of the responses (there are a lot but not too many related to this price gouging issue that I have seen so far) in the next couple of days to see where they might lead us in pursuing this with say, the CBC.

Others who are planning to try to get this looked into might look at those response as well. We may just have a start!

[PeterC]

I live just outside Ottawa.

I've just completed my 30 day trial, and I'll be purchasing my equipment shortly.

I have insurance through my employer that lists DME as "covered", but I'm waiting for a reply as to what exactly this means.

MediGas is my DME supplier. Is there anything I should know before I proceed?

Thanks.

Peter.

[jdm2857]

From what I've read here, find another DME post haste.