I'm on my own in Ontario; as usual!

So I had the appointment with the local CPAP supplier to get a machine and mask partially paid for by our beneficent Ontario government; or so I thought! As a few of you knew, I've been self-directing my therapy with a Remstar auto C flex machine and Swift II nasal pillow mask. My intent was to have a second machine as a backup and derive some benefit from the taxes that are gouged from me each year.

Well, it didn't take long to see how everybody gets into the trough. The basic machine was about a thousand dollars with the government paying 700 some odd dollars. My 'share' was 260 dollars. A 'service' package was just over 350 dollars. I guess some people do need that. Then, extended warranty coverage was another 200 dollars for three years. (Hmmmmm.... don't most of these machines come with three year warranties???) And there was no way to have a Cflex machine unless the evidence pointed to my needing it; not even if I offered to pay the difference... And a mask. Well. One basic model was offered as eligible for government assistance. None other. Not even if I offered to pay the difference. The Swift II mask for which I paid 89 dollars online plus shipping was over 200 dollars. So with government assistance, I was going to pay about a grand out of pocket. My own self directed and self paid therapy cost me about 525 dollars for everything except a card reader and smart card which I am having trouble sourcing with someone willing to take paypal AND do shipping to Canada... So at the end of the sales pitch, I thanked the associate politely and told her I would be continuing to look after myself as I had been. Only in Morontario do the parasites line up to fill their pockets at the tax troughs & your wallets without the slightest blush of embarrassment and you can't get what you want even if you offer to pay the difference...

T

T: you need to find a better doctor who will work with your DME.

I wrote the prescription for my equipment, my doctor signed it; then directed the DME to provide it to me at a total cost of $500. (You can see my equipment in my profile.) The extended warranty and the "service package" are complete profit centres for the DME and I declined both.

IME the right doc who is willing to take on the DME makes all the difference.

MoneyGal wrote:The extended warranty and the "service package" are complete profit centres for the DME and I declined both.

Do they offer undercoating and fabric protection too?

Wow that's tough... Ontario guy here as well.

The province caps the price for all CPAP machines through the Assistive Device Program to $1060. So whether you get a standard machine with compliance data only, or a top of the line with A-Flex/C-Flex, it's usually the same price. Ontario ADP pays 75% ($795), and the remaining $260 is your share. Normally if you have insurance, it would be covered, but it sounds like you're going for a second machine, or don't have insurance.

The service contracts, as said, are pure profit for the DME. The RemStar M Series for example, has a 2 year warranty out of the box.

I would try getting the machine through another DME (I used ProResp), and then get all the accessories and mask through cpap.com or online if you are paying out of pocket. The markup for Canada is ridiculous. I basically told my DME what I wanted, and they ordered it. I got a machine with EPR, and it wasn't on my prescription - no trouble at all. I don't think ProResp does a lot of Respironics (mostly ResMed and F&P), so you'll probably have to shop around.

Hey they pay something at least - in Quebec your on your own. I got a resmed data capable machine with all the accessories for under $2000. No service packs no extended warranty.

An note here from someone who studied industrial stats once upon a time. Electronic components are like people , they have a life curve that looks like a bathtub - meaning that if your gonna die it will be in infant and early childhood - after that your good to go until the end of your life expectancy (unless that wireless router takes a flying leap across the room while you are wallpapering then it is no go ). I never take the long term warranty.

Terminator wrote:.... Then, extended warranty coverage was another 200 dollars for three years. (Hmmmmm.... don't most of these machines come with three year warranties???) .....

T

Yep. They do come with extended warrantees. In fact, to be able to bill ADP in Ontario, the DME has to include a 3 year warrantee in the price.

If you have your facts straight on this point, a complaint to ADP is in order.

Your DME is attempting to rip you off.

How about this.
I had my machine ruined by British Airways. I contacted the supplier in Barrie about a replacement, and they told me that I had to have a sleep clinic study before the Ontario government would help pay for a new machine. The soonest I could get an appointment was 6 months away!
I asked for a repair estimate on my old machine, and they got back to me 3 weeks later with a costing of $850.00 to fix.

I was leaving for Florida for a few months, and so I told them to put the machine where the sun don't shine, and bought a new one in Clearwater for $650.

pottsy1044 wrote:I was leaving for Florida for a few months, and so I told them to put the machine where the sun don't shine, and bought a new one in Clearwater for $650.

I miss Clearwater. Grew up there.

David

Pottsy -- I think you were misled by your DME. Your doctor should have been able to write a new scrip for a machine for you without a new sleep study.

I don't know what the ADP rules are about replacing a machine before some period of months has elapsed, and it may be that you would not have qualified for government assistance with your machine. I'm sure the course of action you took was good, I am just pointing out that your supplier is likely full of horse poo.

I think your supplier is full of it too!!

I talked to my supplier last year when I was wanting an updated machine. I had an old Respironics Pro with a heated humdifier but no exhalation relief.

In Ontario you can't get a new machine without a recent prescription which may require a sleep study.

I went for a sleep study and the Specialist told me that all I needed was pressure change. I asked about newer machines with comfort features and wanted a prescription for it. He said - you will get a prescription for a new machine if and when this one quits and is beyond repair.

I bought an auto online with my 5+ year old prescription. I have to say that I have heard of Sleep Specialist in Ontario who are not as rigid as that but I didn't have one then.

I started out to tell you that I spoke to my Provider and asked how you get a newer machine with more comfort features. I was prepared to pay for it totally myself - no one can do it without a more recent prescription.

I asked if I had to drop the machine down the stairs and break it to get a new prescription. The Supplier said it's been done but I didn't hear you say that!

I haven't done it yet since my old machine is a pretty good backup but one day ---maybe. To buy in Ontario all on your own with a newer prescription of course is way expensive! I would need ADP help so maybe---.

Hey Terminator, I'm from Ontario too (Ottawa). Last summer I reached my 5 year point with my antique CPAP machine so I got an appointment with my sleep doctor. Mine is more lenient that Hawthorne's because he allowed me to get a new machine. However, he said he was not allowed to prescribe an APAP for me because my pressure (based on an APAP I had borrowed from my DME) showed that it didn't fluctuate enough. I tried to get an APAP through my DME, without success, even though I was willing to pay the difference. Then I asked if I got a regular CPAP, could I get a reader and software. Afraid not. My DME said they weren't allowed to sell it to me.

So I bought from cpap.com and am thrilled with it all. The price from for what I consider to be a top of the line apap with a card reader and software plus shipping came to less than I would have had to pay for my share (less ADP) for inferior equipment in Canada. My work health plan even paid for it all.

Sure, it's a little more complicated if you have problems. My heated humidifer died and I spoke to my DME about getting warranty service ... after all, they don't pay for it, they're just the liaison between me and Respironics. No way they were helping me. So I called cpap.com who were very helpful but it meant shipping my machine to them in the US. I would have had to pay for shipping back to me except that I happened to be going to visit my parents in Florida over Christmas so I had cpap.com send the replaced humidifier shipped free to my parents.

But haven't I read on the threads lately that cpap.com is no longer allowed to ship anything to Canada? I thought I had read that and I was so sad about it but I've just looked at their shipping FAQ and it looks like they can still ship ok. Did I dream (nightmare) that?

I'm due to replace my Quattro mask and I was figuring I'd have to go through the DME and pay twice the price. Perhaps I'll phone cpap.com and see if it was just my imagination.

Welcome to the group. I haven't been around much so I haven't seen your posts but hope all is going well (other than OHIP woes).

France

frapilu wrote:But haven't I read on the threads lately that cpap.com is no longer allowed to ship anything to Canada? I thought I had read that and I was so sad about it but I've just looked at their shipping FAQ and it looks like they can still ship ok. Did I dream (nightmare) that?

I'm due to replace my Quattro mask and I was figuring I'd have to go through the DME and pay twice the price. Perhaps I'll phone cpap.com and see if it was just my imagination.

ResMed has put a halt to cpap.com shipping ResMed products to Canada but you can still get any other brand products shipped to Canada.

For ResMed products I see many Canadian customers having cpap.com ship to US address (family, friends, PO box just across the border) and getting their ResMed products that way.

I haven't heard anything more but, I understand that cpap.com (and other online suppliers) can no longer ship Resmed machines to Canada. I THINK they can still ship any masks or parts or other brands of machines to Canada though.

Actually your friendly supplier in Canada can get and sell you Resmed machines at those inflated prices, if you jump through the right hoops!

I haven't ordered anything from them since Resmed's new policy came into effect.

I think it only applies to Resmed machines though.

Oh yes - now you need to have a prescription for a cpap machine to get a mask from cpap.com. If you got your machine there, they have it on file.

I see Pugsy's reply and I just spoke with someone at cpap.com. It's only for ResMed stuff and Quattro happens to be ResMed. Hmmm, I wonder what other FF masks might work. This is the one useful thing with a DME -- testing masks -- except that I believe my DME has changed their policies on this. They used to actually be wonderful when they were their own small company but then they got bought out by a larger company and now have crappy policies. I'll have to think about this.

Hmmm, I wonder how much a PO box in Massena costs -- just across the border from Cornwall. So much to think about

Mind you, I suppose it really doesn't matter since my insurance pays for the mask even at exorbitant Canadian prices but I don't like encouraging those prices.

France

Hawthorne wrote:I haven't heard anything more but, I understand that cpap.com (and other online suppliers) can no longer ship Resmed machines to Canada. I THINK they can still ship any masks or parts or other brands of machines to Canada though.

Actually your friendly supplier in Canada can get and sell you Resmed machines at those inflated prices, if you jump through the right hoops!

I haven't ordered anything from them since Resmed's new policy came into effect.

I think it only applies to Resmed machines though.

Oh yes - now you need to have a prescription for a cpap machine to get a mask from cpap.com. If you got your machine there, they have it on file.

Hi Hawthorne,
Not ResMed masks either My prescription is on their file so that's good but not for anything ResMed. Really annoys me and makes me want to boycott ResMed except that I really love my Quattro.

France