Zeo Personal Sleep Coach?

[bmt22033]

I saw this in the Wall Street Journal today. Has anyone ever tried this?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451280076496767.html

http://www.myzeo.com/

[Snoozey]

Hi, it seems like a good thing, but you didn't mention if it measures oxygen levels, which is vital to a proper test for sleep apnea, if nothing else, and... I feel you are possibly cheating yourself of a healthy future by having decided you don't need Cpap (yet). If you have apnea, you need Cpap, and only an informed doctor would tell you that you didn't. You might want to look into it a bit more for your sake and your family's.

[jnk]

Has the accuracy improved?

http://www.myzeo.com/download/8_apss_poster_9_08.pdf
http://www.myzeo.com/download/9_esrs_poster_9_08.pdf

[bmt22033]

Hi, it seems like a good thing, but you didn't mention if it measures oxygen levels, which is vital to a proper test for sleep apnea, if nothing else, and... I feel you are possibly cheating yourself of a healthy future by having decided you don't need Cpap (yet). If you have apnea, you need Cpap, and only an informed doctor would tell you that you didn't. You might want to look into it a bit more for your sake and your family's.

Hi Snoozey. I've used CPAP every night for almost 9 years now. I just read the article about this device and was curious if anyone had ever used it. Thanks for your comments, though!

[ProfessorEd]

This appears at first glance a good idea and the accuracy appears high enough to be useful (subject to the usual worry evaluations paid for by the firm may be biased to the positive side).

Obviously, the evaluations are less than ideal (understandable give the amount of funding a small company probably has) with only 10 subjects and 16 nights.(and probably new equipment which may not show the problems likely to emerge over time, not to mention having a technician handy in case there are any problems),

A mew story (http://www.masshightech.com/stories/200 ... in-VC.html) indicates the firm now called Zeo has raised $14 million so far.

The conventional wisdom has been that there were no computer algorithms that could reliably tell whether you were asleep or the stage of sleep you are in. This company claims to have solved this problem and to be doing it with only one electrode and without the goo usually used to give a good connection. The data presented on the web site shows progress, but less than ideal (no surprise). Given that people differ in a lot of ways (sensitivity to caffeine for instance) and it takes several days to do an experiment on one person, most of us cannot afford a series of sleep studies to examine such issues (even leaving aside the time needed to be wired up etc.). My instinct is that something less than perfect could still be very useful.

I would love some more knowledge about this from users. The law prohibits it being advertised as a medical device, although obviously it or version of it could be. We can all imagine a use where this is a screening device (if there are numerous awakenings during the night a referral is made for a full sleep study).

The most obvious use is to experiment on yourself and see how certain things affect your sleep. What happens if you forgo coffee after 3PM say (which may mean being half awake for the latter part of the day), change your time of exercise, forgo watching the evening TV news, etc. With a sleep journal (i.e. a notebook) and some work you could evaluate many of these on your own asking how sleepy you felt each day and how that correlated with other things). I would hope for third party studies that compared this device and program with a simple journal to see whether either worked (i.e. improved wakefulness during the day) and whether the device added anything.

An obvious extension of this idea is to incorporate the sensors into the headbands for those of us using CPAP and recording their data along wit the other data recorded by the machines. The biggest disadvantage for the typical person is the inconvenience of wearing a headband and downloading data. Both of these are routine for many with sleep apnea.

I would hope on or more of the major CPAP firms are investigating such technologies to add to their auto-CPAP machines and doing the type of research (expensive) needed to get document a benefit and get approval for sale as a medical device). I could imagine a premium CPAP/auto CPAP machine that Incorporated this technology and sold for a premium price.

One question not answered (at least at first glance) is whether there is a way to record the data on your PC and notes without paying for their web based sleep coach service. (it looks like their business plan is for this to be a major source of income). Does anyone know?

[jnk]

. . . A mew story . . .

Is that a story that let's the cat out of the bag? or a story that hides in the back alleys? or a story for the GULLible? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

VERY good questions, ProfessorEd.

I hope the machine turns out to be accurate and inexpensive and useful apart from the Web-link stuff. And as you say, it would be nice if they teamed up with some CPAP manufacturers for collecting and interpreting the info in conjunction with blowers and maybe even supplied alternate headgear for the common masks with their stuff already built in. I can dream, can't I?

OK, people, who's gonna buy one and start sending one around for us all to try?

jeff

[roster]

.........
The conventional wisdom has been that there were no computer algorithms that could reliably tell whether you were asleep or the stage of sleep you are in. ......

Do you need to qualify that statement? What about the three PSGs I underwent in certified sleep labs?

[jnk]

.........
The conventional wisdom has been that there were no computer algorithms that could reliably tell whether you were asleep or the stage of sleep you are in. ......

Do you need to qualify that statement? What about the three PSGs I underwent in certified sleep labs?

I think humans generally have at least some role in "scoring" the PSGs, don't they, rooster?

[joeb989]

The Zeo device looks interesting. I've been comparing this device with the Watch-PAT200, which also gives REM measurements, plus a whole lot more (see http://www.itamar-medical.com/Watch-PAT ). Does anyone have know the price of a Watch-PAT200 with software? Would they sell this to patients?

The Zeo alarm feature helps avoid waking you up during deep sleep looks useful. I noticed there is another device that does the same thing at which is the Sleep Tracker (see http://www.sleeptracker.com/a/sleep-wat ... ep%20watch ). They have several different models that allow you to collect data and download it to your PC for analysis. Pretty good deal for $149 to $179. I'm guessing the Zeo is more accurate in determining sleep states, because a study was done comparing Zeo to full PSG sleep studies, and it was pretty close.

To compare Zeo with the other devices, I would really like to see samples of the reporting from the the Zeo online software. Does anyone have access to this?

[timbalionguy]

I have been considering getting a used electroencephalagraph machine, and have been watching prices on the web. A few older machines are actually affordable. I have also toyed with the idea of building my own preamplifiers and hooking these to a computer to log data. All the parts and hardware to do this are readily available.

[TheDreamer]

Looks interesting, except how would I wear the thing..... don't see how I could wear it with my klingon headgear on

The Dreamer.

[enso]

I'd like a personal sleep coach. Some one to tuck me and give me foot rubbies while I drift off to sleep...(bliss)

[S-Dubya]

When I hear "Sleep Coach" I get images of a heavy-set, sweaty man yelling "C'mon! You can do better than that! Sleeeeep! Nooooow!" Not exactly my idea of an idillic way to drift off to sleep.

Although I do think it would be fun to tinker with these "toys" for a while.

[roster]

When I hear "Sleep Coach" I get images of a heavy-set, sweaty man yelling "C'mon! You can do better than that! Sleeeeep! Nooooow!" Not exactly my idea of an idillic way to drift off to sleep.

.

Exactly. I don't think you played team sports in high school, eh Enso?

[LinkC]

When I hear "Sleep Coach" I get images of a heavy-set, sweaty man yelling "C'mon! You can do better than that! Sleeeeep! Nooooow!" Not exactly my idea of an idillic way to drift off to sleep.

Gee, *MY* mental image is of a tall, thin blonde practically bursting out of a slinky negligee, murmuring "Sweet dreams, Pookie" just above the gentle whisper of the CPAP machine. Now THAT's the idyllic way to coach!