Let's get government health care like Canada

[spitintheocean]

To a rational person, this is a good argument. However, there are people who would like to see all of these things privatized. The great promise of free market economics. The new and scary battleground is over privatizing water utilities - like we really need water quality and availability controlled any further by profit margins. Water privatization helped destroy the economy of more than a couple South American countries.

I'm fascinated by the decision to privatize electricity generation which spawned the Enron debacle and California's rolling brownouts. There are so many private companies lining up to build a nuclear power plant or hydro electric facility for billions of dollars so that they can sell power to the 4% of the population that need 5% of their newly developed capacity for a few hot days of the year. Mind you they have no problem taking over monopoly utility suppliers and screwing consumers for short term profits.

Just wait until hybrid and straight electric cars become economical to manufacture. Where's all the power supposed to come from? I don't know of any major power development projects anywhere in the US except hugely subsidized wind farms that will translate into a staggering mileage rate after the taxpayer subsidy is accounted for. NIMBY

[Debjax]

as seen in Michael Moore's documentary where one is given the option of what finger to save, as only one can be saved based on their level of insurance,

For the record, Mike's documentaries have a tendency to...ummmm..welll, let's just say he has a way of making some serious spin, and making an apple look like an orange. I knew Mike WAYYYY back in the Flint Voice days, and while he was a radical then (weren't we all) at least he was still an honest radical. After Roger and Me, I lost some fair confidence in his "objectivity", and with each subsequent movie, it got worse. I saw an interview with him a few years back, while he was filming the medical "documentary" and when asked what motivates him, his response was "what I do sells and makes money. The more controversial I can make it, the more money I will make." I knew for sure then that the activist Michael was gone.

I'm going to bet there was alot more to any scene where "only one finger could be saved"....and I'll bet there were other reasons besides insurance. Just like in Roger and Me, where he made a HUGE point about the Palace and Capitol theaters being torn down (blaming it on the economy of the city at the time) and that there were now NO theaters inside Flint city limits. While technically correct, it was not really truthful....the Palace and Capitol were torn down before they fell down on someone, and there were two megaplex theaters, about 10 miles apart, each "just across the line" from the city limits. One in Flint Township, the other in Burton/Davison area. Oh, and we were not having to skin rabbits for food....despite what his documentary said.

Take most of what he says with a serious grain of salt, and look for what he left out that would tell the "complete story" and make things look about 180 degrees off from where he portrayed it.

[spitintheocean]

I don't get all the opposition to socialized medicine. What's so wrong with socialism anyhow? Without socialism, the US wouldn't have police or fire departments, public school systems, or even roads to drive on. Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. Is any system?

To a rational person, this is a good argument. However, there are people who would like to see all of these things privatized. The great promise of free market economics. ........

Well can you not say the same things about food, electricity, cars, DVRs, haircuts? Shouldn't we plan all of this centrally?

How are those public school systems working out? I just listened to a talk by the president of our state community college system. He said the high school dropout rate in the U.S. is 30% and functional illiteracy is 14%. He also said this generation coming up will be the first one in our history to have less education that their parents' generation.

I already commented on the failure of privatizing electrical generation, but condemning the US public school system as a failure and referring to the 30% dropout rate as proof that public schooling doesn't work is certainly one for the books. In Canada, using our public education system, less than 10% of our population 20 - 24 years old haven't completed high school. The American results are more likely associated with a social support system much less generous than Canada's that results in a higher percentage of disenfranchised inner city youth and illegal immigrants coupled with significantly lower compensation for teachers.

The Canadian distinction is our higher taxes sadly stifle the personal risk/reward agenda available to all educated, well-off US citizens, but does purchase greater levels of social peace as evidenced by our significantly lower statistics for drug abuse, property crimes, murders, etc. While this country is far from Nirvana, we just don't suffer the consequences of gangs and inner city poverty anywhere near the degree of of our southern cousins because hope and opportunity is much more accessible for our poorest citizens. Simply translated, I won't have the same opportunity to become filthy rich but I'll have much less chance of being assaulted for my Rolex.

Of course all this may be all nonsense and the real reason our streets are safer is because we all play hockey and get our frustrations out by beating one another silly on the ice.

When one considers the rapidly escalating cost of health care in the United States, at which point do the alarm bells go off that this sort of inflationary pressure is no more sustainable than the housing bubble but the consequences for the unemployed, the working poor, and your retired population may be devastating.

Paul

[oh_possum]

[ I saw an interview with him a few years back, while he was filming the medical "documentary" and when asked what motivates him, his response was "what I do sells and makes money. The more controversial I can make it, the more money I will make."

Wow, that's a really damning thing for him to say about himself. I couldn't blame anyone who heard him say it for being skeptical. Do you think you could cite that quote because I can't seem to find any reference to it or anything that sounds even similar. I would have thought one of those "Michael-Moore-is-a-big-fat-dumba$$" sites would have been pasted that blooper right across the banner - but nope.

[oh_possum]

I don't get all the opposition to socialized medicine. What's so wrong with socialism anyhow? Without socialism, the US wouldn't have police or fire departments, public school systems, or even roads to drive on. Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. Is any system?

To a rational person, this is a good argument. However, there are people who would like to see all of these things privatized. The great promise of free market economics. ........

Well can you not say the same things about food, electricity, cars, DVRs, haircuts? Shouldn't we plan all of this centrally?

How are those public school systems working out? I just listened to a talk by the president of our state community college system. He said the high school dropout rate in the U.S. is 30% and functional illiteracy is 14%. He also said this generation coming up will be the first one in our history to have less education that their parents' generation.

Are those our choices - privatize everything or socialize everything? I don't have a problem with allowing the free market to thrive while we also take steps to protect the commons. I don't really know why I should have to pay a private company whatever the market will bear for something that WE collectively own. Isn't the water already ours. And oil that is on national land?

From your question, it seems like you don't want any distinctions. Does this mean that you want roads, parks, police and fire privatized? How about our courts? Couldn't we better deal with the legal logjam if we opened up our court system to competition? Why is the military only partially privatized? Let's really let the free market work by having our soldiers enforce the will of the highest bidder.

This either/or idea is not for me. I'll stick with a public court system and private DVR's, thank-you-very-much.

[MrSandman]

Obamanation scares the hell out of me ! Is he the anti-christ ? Stay tuned !

Images of the movie or book 1984 come to mind whenever Obamanation speaks.

Dude! ... You need to ease up on those mind drugs if you're scared of an anti-christ.

BTW - I thought Reagan was Christian back in 1984? ... just cuz Obama liked him doesn't actually mean he is going to bring back the days of 1984 ... chill man.

Dude - Your reference to mind drugs is really starting to piss me off - so if that has been your goal you have done well. Yes I should have spelled it Obamination. What the heck are you saying anyway because you aren't making sense here. I think you are just not getting enough good sleep because you are fooling your algorithm by use of that FP150 with the big ole chamber . You see, the great numbers you report are totally false because GIGO.

[ainsle14]

I do not judge american health care. All i can tell you about is canadian heathcare BECAUSE I LIVE HERE. WHen i decided to get a sleep study done, i found it would take time to get a sleep study in my province, NS. I found a sleep study center that would do it the next week in another province, Ontario. I Few up to ontario, and medicare paid for the study in another province. In this time of economic downturn, people in canada do not have the stress of worrying that they will loose their health care as well as their jobs. WHen they have cancer they do not have to worry about going in debt. I am thankful for our health care system and would never want it go private. I do not want a 2 tier system , one for the rich and one for the poor. Secondy, I do not want greedy ruthless private companies that ony care about profit controlling my health.

[roster]

........Are those our choices - privatize everything or socialize everything? .............. Does this mean that you want roads, parks, police and fire privatized? How about our courts? Couldn't we better deal with the legal logjam if we opened up our court system to competition? Why is the military only partially privatized? Let's really let the free market work by having our soldiers enforce the will of the highest bidder.

This either/or idea is not for me. I'll stick with a public court system and private DVR's, thank-you-very-much.

Poss, Just for the record, I don't know who you are debating with. I did not say any of the things you have posted.

Nice to know the water is ours. I think I will go down to the city reservoir this afternoon and take a little swim in my portion.

[spitintheocean]

Nice to know the water is ours. I think I will go down to the city reservoir this afternoon and take a little swim in my portion.

Try to avoid the 'warmer' patch where I 'swam' this morning.

Paul

[DreamStalker]

Obamanation scares the hell out of me ! Is he the anti-christ ? Stay tuned !

Images of the movie or book 1984 come to mind whenever Obamanation speaks.

Dude! ... You need to ease up on those mind drugs if you're scared of an anti-christ.

BTW - I thought Reagan was Christian back in 1984? ... just cuz Obama liked him doesn't actually mean he is going to bring back the days of 1984 ... chill man.

Dude - Your reference to mind drugs is really starting to piss me off - so if that has been your goal you have done well. Yes I should have spelled it Obamination. What the heck are you saying anyway because you aren't making sense here. I think you are just not getting enough good sleep because you are fooling your algorithm by use of that FP150 with the big ole chamber . You see, the great numbers you report are totally false because GIGO.

Sorry dude, my intent was not to freak you out. Just that your thoughts seemed crazy and all and I thought maybe your dosage was a bit off. Everything is going to be alright ... look, how many fingers am I holding up?

[MrSandman]

You really have an issue with prescription medication for mental issues don't you

Why don't you go hug a tree and while your at it read some L. RON HUBBARD since you must be one of his followers.