Let's get government health care like Canada

Slinky wrote:Eh, I've seen plenty of complaints in this forum and other BY CANADIANS about Canadian health care, just our Canadian members have seen complaints in this forum from AMERICANS about AMERICAN health care. The same goes for those in the UK and their health system. France supposedly had one of the best national health care systems - and is currently on the verge of going broke as well.

The thing is ... seems like every time the US government does me a favor I end up getting screwed. You're darn right having the US government tinker w/health care scares the hell outta me!!!

Once again Slinky is the voice of reason..... I personally wouldn't give up our healthcare in the USA for anything. I can tell you from experience if they started to crack down on medical suppliers that things would get much cheaper. For example, ResMed or Respironics new masks can range up to $200 a piece. They sell us (at the lab) these masks from $8-$18 per mask. They are still making money on these masks too. Why on God's green earth are they charging DME's 10 times that amount? Another thing to think about- while they have done some work at forbidding kickbacks, why are they allowing Reps to bring out large groups of Doctors, nurses etc. out to fancy restuarants to show off their products? I personally refuse any food or any type of bribery from the suppliers. If they try to offer me a pizza or whatever, Itell them that I won't buy their products because they bought me lunch, and that I am not interested. I then tell them if they want to do something good for the day, they can give me a couple free masks to hand out to people in need. To me, thats the way to advertise. ResMed rep gave me a couple masks awhile back, and whenever I hear of someone down and out, I offer them a free mask. That way the patient gets a Resmed mask, falls in love with it (hopefully) and when they DO get insurance again, they know what they are going to go after. Now ResMed has a patient for life. Thats the way to advertise. The doctor and nurse, or sleep tech have nothing to do with how well a business can do. (if they are allowing their patients a choice that is) I hate when Reps come in and tell me that I am not showcasing their masks enough. I always tell them I don't sell masks, I show masks. I let the patient decide what feels best to them. I obviously will give my input if they ask for it, but its definately up to the patient to decide.

Linus wrote:Canada has a smaller population and it is hard for them to manage Health care. Imagine what it would be like in the USA. The problem with Canada and other European countries is that they do not have a younger population to tax to support the aging population. The birth rate is 1.0-1.5 which does not even sustain population. Who will pay for this?

Well let's see ..... in 2008 the US imported 45 million kwh of electricity to keep those air conditioners humming and Canada provides over 2.5 million barrels per day to keep those SUV's guzzling. I wonder how much those royalties will increase to keep me and my compatriots in Depends? Meanwhile, you guys just keep on with the inner city teen-age pregnancies, we just love it when our customer base keeps growing.

Paul

Yep, when I volunteered at our local hospital drug reps or manufacturer reps would come in on a regular basis and have a nice luncheon catered in for the staff in that department and I was often invited to join the staff.

When my family doctor died and I was shopping I sat past my scheduled appointment time whilst a drug rep was ushered right into the "inner sanctum".

My family doctor (my current one, not the one that died) sees drug reps ONLY by appointment. I've been in the office when more than one has been turned away for not having an appointment and there is even a sign posted on the wall in the waiting room informing drug reps by appointmnet only.

It was just a couple of years ago that I read that pharmaceutical companies now spend more on advertising than research and development. I know I enjoyed dinner more when I didn't have a commercial for Preparation H, condoms, etc. come on the TV. I liked it a lot better when I didn't have to sit thru TV commercials for lawyers, doctors and drugs. Its too bad our government ever weakened the rules on this because the advertising revenue has increased so much that they can't afford to cut back this type of advertising now.

And I remember when the promise was pay TV would be free of commercials. Well, to me cable and satellite are pay TV and they sure as heck have more than their share of commercials. Seems like an hour show is a 1/2 hour of commercials and 1/2 hour of the show itself. money, Money, MONEY.

Well having lived in both systems, I would take the US system every time.

Every time I try to schedule an appointment for a specialist and I can make it just 3 weeks out, I smile inside. I laughed out loud the first time when my dermatologist told me to schedule a 6 month followup and the desk said that they don't schedule appointments that far out and to just call in a few months before.

For a few years, the joke was that there were more MRI's in one hospital across the border than in all the province.

I think comparing notes can be difficult. Many Canadians have a prideful bias in any Canada vs. US comparison. Then you have people who will bolster the Canadian system for the same reason they'll claim Social Security is a success. Because it aligns with their personal politics. There's also the fact some people go to the Emergency Room or Clinic for what people in the US go to their personal physician for unless its the weekend.

Also another reason for conflicting experiences. Politics. Just like Pork Projects, you can buy votes with supplying medical care. So the most medical care is applied in the areas that can give the government the best political return on your tax money. So major cities can get far better care than medium or smaller ones. That happens here to an extent, but its disproportionately so in Ontario and you don't have rules with restrictions preventing you from seeking care out of your area. Also if there is embarrassing publicity about the Medical System, the government goes in and cleans it up and provides extra funding which helps for a few years and things go back to the way they were.

I've lived in both as well... they both have their good points... and their bad ones.

I like the US system if I have a good health plan, unfortunately with my current employer, I don't (and the only choice that I have is to get another employer as this is the only plan that they offer). Private health insurance is too expensive. And without either, you don't see a doctor without many hundreds of dollars... I've seen the bills that some of my docs have submitted as my deductible is high.

When I was in Canada and my employer provided secondary insurance it was great... No doctor bills, see the doctor when you need to see the doctor. See the dentist as well. Without secondary insurance, it's not good... because beyond the basic there isn't coverage.

My mom (and until last fall my dad) still live in Alberta. My dad wasn't denied basic coverage, they covered his hospital and hospice bills, they even covered the nurses that came in when he was at home. What they didn't do was anything when he first went on dialysis that would have made it easier on him... to get things that would have been easier you either had to fight for it or you had to pay and go south.

My uncle needed open heart surgery as a senior... he had to sign a consent for the surgery or they wouldn't have done it due to his age.

MrSandman wrote:Obamanation scares the hell out of me ! Is he the anti-christ ? Stay tuned !

Images of the movie or book 1984 come to mind whenever Obamanation speaks.

Dude! ... You need to ease up on those mind drugs if you're scared of an anti-christ.

BTW - I thought Reagan was Christian back in 1984? ... just cuz Obama liked him doesn't actually mean he is going to bring back the days of 1984 ... chill man.

What? Every patient undergoing any surgery (beyond the little stuff) signs a consent form - nothing to do with age, but to say the patient has been told by his MD exactly what the risks involved with the surgery are, so that no one can come back later and say they weren't told of the risks. And I imagine anyone in the US having surgery has to sign such a consent as well.

Oh, yeah, we have to sign a surgical consent form here in the states as well. And most people don't bother to read them before signing - which is foolish. There are areas you can cross out and initial - such as permission for blood transfusion if your religion or your personal comfort w/the blood supply makes you averse to such practice. And in signing you agree you have been fully informed when you haven't been told about the risks or whatever.

I've had the surgical consent form provided to me on a monitor screen wherein only half of the form appeared yet was handed the "pen" to sign the electronic "thingie". The receptionist sure was flummoxed at how long it took me before signing and when I asked her to scroll the screen so I could read the entire consent form and then asked how I could strike out one sentence and initial it!!! THAT was a interesting day and the procedure almost didn't get done! *wicked grin*

As much as you can fault the Canadian health care system for being slow with specialists and special procedures, the fact that our country provides healthcare to everyone is a redeeming quality. Sure, we pay for it through taxes, but it's comforting to know people can receive care irregardless of their financial situation. I'm not just being a flag-waving patriotic Canuck: I think Healthcare should be an absolute basic right. Here in Ontario, our 65+ senior citizens also only pay $6.11 for their prescription (after they pay $100/annual deductible).

I don't get all the opposition to socialized medicine. What's so wrong with socialism anyhow? Without socialism, the US wouldn't have police or fire departments, public school systems, or even roads to drive on. Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. Is any system?

All I know is that with my little OHIP card, I can walk into any hospital 'unannounced' and receive service. I threw out my back last night: I can call my doctor this morning and be in to see him by noon. I can get x-rays today, and it'll all cost me $0.00. Sure, I've paid for it in my taxes, but I will *never* be denied care for financial reasons.

don't know a thing bout our neighbors health care to the north...insert grass is always greener adage here ......two things to ponder: how many older(& not all) folks working at wallyworld say"i have to because of needed health insur."....i get a kick when i hear of the notion we need the same health care as our legislators ..like that would ever happen <------too sad for smiley face. .. tim

MrSandman wrote:Obamanation scares the hell out of me !

I spell it "Obamination"... (A subtle, but revealing distinction)

spitintheocean wrote:Well let's see ..... in 2008 the US imported 45 million kwh of electricity to keep those air conditioners humming and Canada provides over 2.5 million barrels per day to keep those SUV's guzzling. I wonder how much those royalties will increase to keep me and my compatriots in Depends? Meanwhile, you guys just keep on with the inner city teen-age pregnancies, we just love it when our customer base keeps growing.

Paul

Ya, my parents keep bugging me to move back to Alberta...where there's no provincial sales tax and hardly any income/property taxes (they might even have reached the point where they don't have these anymore?)

Of course, I would still like to have a job in Alberta...before I move back to Alberta. I left because I had gotten laid off and wasn't able to find a new job there....

The Dreamer.

ChrisC wrote: I don't get all the opposition to socialized medicine. What's so wrong with socialism anyhow? Without socialism, the US wouldn't have police or fire departments, public school systems, or even roads to drive on. Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. Is any system?

To a rational person, this is a good argument. However, there are people who would like to see all of these things privatized. The great promise of free market economics. The new and scary battleground is over privatizing water utilities - like we really need water quality and availability controlled any further by profit margins. Water privatization helped destroy the economy of more than a couple South American countries.

very touch subject

I've lived under both. I prefer the US system because i can afford it, but if were broke i would prefer the social (saftey net) health care system.

I lost my job once and got the shock of COBRA at $600 a month, i paid it for 4 months then gave up. Someone told me that you shouldn't pay the monthly premiums. You should treat it as disaster coverage and then only use health care when you absolutely need it. At that point you will have to pay all the back months you owe to bring your current but you will still be insured. I'm not sure if that is absolutely true ?

I have a friend in the UK who had his sleep sleep study done and has been told he needs to go on CPAP. His doctor told him to go and buy his machine himself as there is a 2 year waiting list to get one on the NHS (National Health Care)

oh_possum wrote:

ChrisC wrote: I don't get all the opposition to socialized medicine. What's so wrong with socialism anyhow? Without socialism, the US wouldn't have police or fire departments, public school systems, or even roads to drive on. Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. Is any system?

To a rational person, this is a good argument. However, there are people who would like to see all of these things privatized. The great promise of free market economics. ........

Well can you not say the same things about food, electricity, cars, DVRs, haircuts? Shouldn't we plan all of this centrally?

How are those public school systems working out? I just listened to a talk by the president of our state community college system. He said the high school dropout rate in the U.S. is 30% and functional illiteracy is 14%. He also said this generation coming up will be the first one in our history to have less education that their parents' generation.