Respironics customer service is USELESS

[screamineagle]

Guest,

I have to disagree. Respironics CAN force the DME to live by their policies. Either that or they should discontinue dealing with that DME. Simple as that!!

Dale

[ractar28]

ractar how illogical you are. Respironics DOES "stand behind" its mask. They have the 30-day guarantee program. They can't FORCE each one of its retailers to abide by the program. As I've stated before, take the blessed mask back to your DME and say you want it exchanged immediately under this program. If they refuse, ask for the refusal in writing and/or tell the DME you will let Respironics know that it's not honoring the 30-day policy.

I assumed it was a DME that I bought it from, but it wasn't. However, in my mind, that doesn't change the fact that I'm having a problem with a device they manufactured and I purchased in good faith. For them to refuse to work with me directly simply upsets me and I simply do not think they treat their customers well because of such an unreasonable (in my opinion) policy.

[Wulfman]

ractar how illogical you are. Respironics DOES "stand behind" its mask. They have the 30-day guarantee program. They can't FORCE each one of its retailers to abide by the program. As I've stated before, take the blessed mask back to your DME and say you want it exchanged immediately under this program. If they refuse, ask for the refusal in writing and/or tell the DME you will let Respironics know that it's not honoring the 30-day policy.

I assumed it was a DME that I bought it from, but it wasn't. However, in my mind, that doesn't change the fact that I'm having a problem with a device they manufactured and I purchased in good faith. For them to refuse to work with me directly simply upsets me and I simply do not think they treat their customers well because of such an unreasonable (in my opinion) policy.

I know.....this takes a lot of getting used to.....< sigh >, but WE are NOT their customers. The DMEs are their customers. Their relationship/obligations to US end at the DME. It's up to the DME to take care of us. To the manufacturers, we don't really exist. I'm not sure who they think actually buys and USES their products.......but that's the way it is.

Den (curious to see how the financial collapse is going to affect the XPAP product manufacturers)

[ractar28]

I know.....this takes a lot of getting used to.....< sigh >, but WE are NOT their customers.

I understand that "model". The idea is that through building a relationship with a retailer, the patient grows some loyalty to the retailer rather than to the product. The product is a commodity item, service isn't. In the end, the logic behind this business relationship is that the DME has a loyal customer who is willing to pay more money for the same product -- and why not -- most of the time, the insurance is paying anyway (forgetting that healthcare is beyond fubar at the moment).

The truth is I can buy their product at a number of retailers AND I can NOT BUY their product at a number of retailers. They haven't stopped me from working with a specific provider, they've stopped me from buying THEIR products in the future.

In fairness, after using their masks, I doubt I'd buy another one anyway. My Resmed mask has a MUCH better method of attaching to the headgear (squeeze clips instead of those "overtighten to get on" swivel-ball things that Respironics uses.

I gave Respironics a chance to "make it right" and they chose not to (that's my opinion and it's my money I spend on this stuff, so my opinion is really the only one that matters to me at the moment on this particular issue -- and people call me "stubborn" ).

The FACT is that their apap was the least expensive APAP with heated humidifier and I've had a Remstar LX before and it served me well. If someone else had a competing product that was $200 cheaper, I'd have probably gone with it.

There are competing full-face masks in the same general price range, so I'll choose one of them next time I'm buying a full face mask.

[carbonman]

I follow an acoustic guitar news group.
Guitars are made w/many different kinds of wood,
in many different combinations and many different
sizes and shapes. Each of these wood combinations
and shapes determine how the guitar sounds.
It is a comedy to me to listen to people try, through
the written word, to describe how a guitar sounds.
It cracks me up.

As I "listen" to the attempts to explain how to size
a mask, I hear the same things.

If you're not listening to it, or trying it on,
both are a stretch.
Bless every pea pick'en heart here that tries, though.

I lowered my frustration tolerance greatly by taking the
DME and RT and sleep doc, out of my equation.
I made my best guess for a ffm and have never looked back.
I have purchased masks from the auction.
I tried them at my expense and my time.
I am zeroing in on what is going to work for me, on my dime.
What doesn't work, I will sell or give away.
It hasn't been that expensive.
I figured my brain, my body and my life, are worth it.
For what cpap has done for me, it has been a small price to pay.

As always, YMMV. Thoughts/comments/suggestions

[Guest]

I Guess I still don't understand ractar's original point? He bought a mask from a non-official source (we still don't know where) and now he just expects the manufacturer to roll over and give him the mask he wants in exchange? What manufacturer could exist that way? You would have no need for official retailers or distributors. You don't have to be a genius to understand basic distribution principal. If your Toyota goes bad, you don't call Toyota in Japan. You trust your local dealer to handle it. You bought your Toyota via a un-licensed source? Tough. But it's still a Toyota. Well, yes, but how do we know it is if you didn't buy it from one of our dealers? You buy products via approved sources. If not, you take on the responsibility. The mask here in question wasn't defective. Why should the manufacturer care?

[screamineagle]

Precisely,

The manufacturer has repeatedly shown that they don't care. They will only sell and stand behind those retailers that will deal inside their "price-fixed" paramaters.

Now, I may be wrong, but if you look closely at cpapauction.com you may draw the same conclusions that I have.
That is that a large number sellers on there pretty much start the bidding at approximately the same value. That, I figure is pretty close to the actual cost. So, why are the prices that your insurance company has contracted for so much higher than that?

Back to your point. If that Toyota needed warranty service and you bought if from a private individual or a local used car dealer, it would make no difference as long as it was still within the time and mileage parameters set forth by Toyota.

Dale

[ractar28]

I Guess I still don't understand ractar's original point? He bought a mask from a non-official source (we still don't know where) and now he just expects the manufacturer to roll over and give him the mask he wants in exchange? The mask here in question wasn't defective. Why should the manufacturer care?

I used THEIR sizing guide to determine the correct mask. THAT is why they should care. When every retailer I've seen has "no returns" listed on their website, what added value is there to purchasing through an "official source"? I'm still checking with the seller to determine if he is an "official source" or not. He's not a DME, only sells masks. Had I known that DMEs were supposed to accept returns, I'd have thought differently.

When you buy a product at Best Buy and the 30 days has passed and you have an issue, does the retailer help? No, they tell you to contact the manufacturer.

The fact that cpap.com offers to sell you insurance on a mask that comes with a freaking return policy is even worse, IMHO.

[Goofproof]

Carbonman has the correct approach, Masks are a crapshoot, You have to try them for what you need. First you have to find what works, whether you decide to buy and try at your own chance, if you use a normal dealer, find out if you can live within their limitations. Once you find what you need Auctions can be used to get a bargain (buyer beware type).

If you are willing to take the chance, buying from someone without a return policy, go for it but don't cry wolf unless you were bitten. You were bitten, because you didn't know the size you needed to fit you to fit you. Your Bad, the (thing?) whatever you bought it from had no return policy, he didn't need one. You wanted what he had and agreed to pay his asking price. As long as he delivered what you ordered, he did his job.

If what Respironics put in the package was what was marked on the package, they did their job, we all know mask sizing is not a cut and dried thing. You can always sell it as used on the auction and be wiser the next time, or gain some good will and pass it on to someone that can use it.

Auctions are like the Lotto, if you can't stand to lose, don't play Jim

[ractar28]

If what Respironics put in the package was what was marked on the package, they did their job, we all know mask sizing is not a cut and dried thing.

If they told me "we don't warranty the fit of a mask", that'd have been one thing. What they said was "We are sorry for your inconvenience but we are not authorized to deal patient direct. If you were miss-sized by the dealer they should be able to replace yours with the correct size."

Now seriously... I was mis-sized by their own sizing guide, not the dealer. FURTHERMORE, who "authorizes" a manufacturer to deal with consumers? The manufacturer, of course. So, they are telling me that they refuse to work with me, hiding behind a policy they set themselves. I'm not asking them to by-pass a retailer and sell directly to me.

Here is the email I sent them originally. You will see that I ASKED if they would consider replacing the mask. I understood up front that "no" is a definite option. But they won't just tell me to pound sand like a crappy manufacturer would at least HONESTLY do, they hide behind some policy they created to make it sound like "we'd love to help, but we simply aren't allowed to by some higher being".

I have a ComfortFull 2 full face mask for my cpap machine. After using your sizing guide, I got the large size. However, the mask is simply not sealing, which appears to be that the mask is too large. DMEs won''t take masks back, and since this was an out of pocket expense, rather than covered by insurance, the added expense is unwelcome. Having used Respironics products for years, I have come to expect top quality products. I wanted to ask if you would consider replacing the mask with a medium sized ComfortFull2 mask.

[jules]

post all the correspondence if you are going to post any of it - include the contacts with your "vendor"

you buy on the auction you take a risk as others have pointed out - you don't like risk, then don't buy there

your problem is with YOU

[NoLegs]

I have a ComfortFull 2 full face mask for my cpap machine. After using your sizing guide, I got the large size. However, the mask is simply not sealing, which appears to be that the mask is too large. DMEs won''t take masks back, and since this was an out of pocket expense, rather than covered by insurance, the added expense is unwelcome. Having used Respironics products for years, I have come to expect top quality products. I wanted to ask if you would consider replacing the mask with a medium sized ComfortFull2 mask.

When I started cpap I called several DEMs and ask their policies. Each said the same as the one I chose related to masks. My DEM said to return the mask if I had any problems within 30 days for exchange in size or a different mask. You say "DMEs won''t take masks back" is not a correct statement. You should say online auctions will not take mask back! When you purchase from an onlime auction you do not know if the seller is a company with rights to resell or an individual. The person you purchased the mask from might have already exhausted the 30 day return policy and cannot return the mask and get his money back. You chose to bypass the DEMs and are stuck with the wrong size.

Contact the person you purchased from and ask to return the mask for a correct size.

Mask are like shoes, one size does not fit all. Size 8 in a sneaker might work well while size 8 1/2 in a boot works well. You need to try on different sizes to make sure the shoe fits!Regards,

NoLegs

[ractar28]

post all the correspondence if you are going to post any of it - include the contacts with your "vendor"

I'm sorry, but there seems to be some belief on your part that I answer to you and that's simply incorrect.

you buy on the auction you take a risk as others have pointed out - you don't like risk, then don't buy there

See, now you're just badgering, but why not? Follow this link and you'll see that I was working off the general expectation that no one accepted returns on masks, based upon multiple sites saying "no returns". Here, cpap.com is offering to sell insurance so you can return a mask that is the wrong one. https://www.cpap.com/productpage/comfor ... dgear.html For $37.51, I can get the option to return the mask if I want to. So, I figured for $12.50 more, I can buy the actual mask with no return to the seller. That was an easy choice.

your problem is with YOU

Now you're just being petty. I believe I've explained my issue quite clearly. Please tell me where I've failed in my attempts to allow you to comprehend that my issue here is that Respironics will not deal with the user of their products? I'd love to have the mask replaced as a one-time courtesy, but even from the first post on here, I've maintained that the issue is that they won't even deal with the customer directly. Had they even said "please contact your retailer and if you are unable to find satisfaction, we're here to help". So, let's say I had purchased from one of their "authorized retailers" (and it's not clear yet that I didn't, but completely plausible), and the "authorized retailer" ceased business operations -- am I now just "out of luck"? What if I had a "difference of opinion" with their "authorized retailer" -- am I married to the retailer for any issues?

I am not trying to say I'm OWED a new mask. I posed the question to them and they simply refused to deal with me at all. I'd have accepted "Customer satisfaction is important to us, but we are unable to offer you a replacement".

Let's be realistic here. These $100+ masks that we sleep in each night cost very little to produce. There's heavy expenses in R&D, test marketing, mold fabrication, etc. But once those expenses are incurred, each mask probably costs a few bucks to produce (if that). Their customers are a very specific group of people. They're not going to sell one of these masks to anyone who doesn't have a NEED for one (unlike a manufacturer of products we WANT but don't NEED). So, we accept the cost of the masks because we know we have to help them recoup their monies spend on R&D, fabrication, raw materials, and of course profit for the mfg, the retailer, and any middle-man in between. I paid for all of that when I bought the mask in the first place, regardless of where I bought it from (assuming it wasn't stolen). I expect to be able to use the mask for the intended purpose. I performed my "due diligence" when I used their own sizing guide to select the correct size. In the end, after using the resources provided by Respironics, I made an incorrect choice in size (yes, *I* accept that I made the wrong choice). I figured before I just trashed the danged thing, I'd ask if they were willing to exchange the mask for the correct size. Their response upset me -- not that they refused my request, but that they refused to even consider working with me because I'm a "patient".

So, where do I get off on thinking a mfg would work on such an issue? Go buy some M&Ms. Email M&M/Mars and tell them that you didn't like them. I'll bet they'll offer to replace the package with another item or even to refund you the price you paid (which is well over what they "sold" the product for originally).

I simply do not believe it's unreasonable for a company to offer some assistance to the consumers of their products. Their response effectively states "we don't talk to consumers".

Let's say that the mask costs them $10 to produce (I highly doubt it's nearly that much) -- talking raw goods to finished product -- is it unfathomable to have a policy that would allow them to replace the mask for $10 if I send them the old mask and pay shipping both ways?

What really bothers me the most about this is that I just paid $600 for a new APAP with a-flex. If it starts smoking tonight, I can't count on Respironics to do anything about it. They have "washed their hands" of dealing with any product issues. "Go to your DME or Go to hell, just go somewhere" isn't good customer service.

Therefore, I stand firmly behind my comment that "Respironics customer service is USELESS" -- at least if you're a consumer of their products and have an issue with the product. Otherwise, I suppose their customer service is perfect -- but what purpose do they serve?

[ractar28]

When I started cpap I called several DEMs and ask their policies. Each said the same as the one I chose related to masks. My DEM said to return the mask if I had any problems within 30 days for exchange in size or a different mask. You say "DMEs won''t take masks back" is not a correct statement. You should say online auctions will not take mask back!

You have an advantage I don't -- either good health insurance or more money -- and I don't begrudge you having either or both. DMEs are very expensive. The machine I bought online new for $600 would have cost me "about $1400" through a DME. The DME (Apria Healthcare) couldn't even TELL ME how much the danged thing costs -- "it depends on your insurance". No, if I'm walking in and paying cash, it doesn't, to which I was told "about $1400". I shudder to think how much a mask would be through them.

I assume cpap.com to be a DME. I assume bestcpapprice.com to be a DME. Actually, I'm not sure that there's any requirement whatsoever to call yourself a DME. Both sites clearly state that they don't take returns on opened masks. I did get clarification from bestcpapprice and they indicated they would accept ONE return on one of the masks covered by the "satisfaction guarantee" mentioned much earlier in this thread. Alas, I'd not have known that if I hadn't asked.

Also, your DME may be much better than the one I dealt with locally, but I have this sneaky suspicion that if you did return the mask, they'd bill the insurance for the second one. Apria has been very helpful when I had better health insurance -- they'd send me anything I wanted because my insurance would cover it (no, I didn't abuse that).

Anyway, I hope you can see why it was my belief that DMEs would not accept returns on masks. There are legitimate companies that sell items ONLY through auction sites and are authorized resellers of the items they sell. The whole fallacy that "you bought via auction" meaning that I have no reason to expect support (I'm asking for SUPPORT here, a new mask would be great, but they refuse to "deal with patients") from the manufacturer would be any different whether I got it on an auction site or their most expensive retailer. Either way, Respironics got their money and probably the same amount no matter which route I had gone. Heck, even if Respironics had said "you got it from an auction, there's no support", that'd be different. I never gave them any indication that I'd gotten the mask via an auction. There was no information given or asked for, as to where I'd purchased the product. Therefore, I see no connection between their response and how I came to own the mask in the first place.

[Babette]

Wow. Yet another thread proving that sleep apnea sufferers are really unsufferable until they can get decent therapy.

Ractar38 - you're sleep deprived. Everything is going to drive you nuts and make you react homicidally. Nothing we say here is going to make you happy. Don't believe me? Surf for "Babette" around April and May 2007 and see how logical and tolerant some of my posts are... NOT!

Chalk this up to experience, re-sell the mask on cpapauction, and go get another mask.

It's meeting the newbies that proves to me that cpap therapy works for me.

Wishing you better sleep in the future,
Babs