An unexpected serious encounter with a cpap machine failure

[feeling_better]

As most of you know I am very new to cpap. Over the last 6, 7 weeks I have reduced leaks and have brought down my A and H numbers so that AHI is now about 3 or so. So I can say I am settling down to enjoy this journey.

For the last 3 days, which finally reduced the leaks a lot, was by mouth taping --- gentle paper tape with two small vertical strips and 3 openings, covered by another band around the head.

Last night I was dreaming that I had to struggle to breath in and breath out. But, in my dream, I was doing it with a bit of effort, but winning. You know one of those dreams based on my first couple of days of hard breathing when my starting pressure was too low of 4. (I had since increased that to 5.5, I am fine now). I was thinking of this within my dream!

Then I slowly woke up. Wow! I was still struggling for real to breath in and breath out but I could manage with some difficulty --- I was doing it very slowly. I think my deep breathing practice I had done for a long time to just increase lung capacity might have helped me here.

I thought I might have accidentally turned my machine off --- I had never done that before, and I am one of those who within seconds of waking up is completely awake (unlike by good old mother, who is no more, who used to take many minutes to be fully awake even when she was young). Pushing the middle button by touch and feel of my M-series gave no response! Fear coming in... Checked the leak port, no flow!! Managed to disconnect the mask from the tube and started breathing a bit easier. By now, I had mild chest discomfort from the hard breathing. (I am not a young person, retired, but in good health, tennis player). Looked at the machine, there was no lights. It was not a power failure, my clock behind was still on. By now I was quite shook up and realized that was rather dangerous.

Turned the lights on, (wakes up my spouse, but I guess I didn't care ), and I cannot tell for sure if the machine simply turned off itself or the power cord became disconnected. Just by pushing it in did not work, but when I unplugged and replugged the machine came back on and automatically started the flow at the normal pressure.

I have made sure that the power cord will not come lose, and hope it was not a machine malfunction. But with mouth taping, this situation becomes a bit more dangerous. The next morning I found out from the daily detailed pressure graph in Epro, that there was no pressure for about 6 minutes until the machine restarted -- so probably I was struggling for 4 to 5 minutes. Scary.

I am at a place we do not have power outages --- except during the brown outs of a few years ago, a night time power outage happens perhaps once in 3 or 4 years. But I am going to soon get a power off alarm for the DC side of the supply that goes into the machine, and soon will have a backup floating power supply with an alarm. So if the machine goes off and my power alarm does not come on, I would know the machine was failing.

I put this all down in detail so that I may help somebody else here; we get so used to this machine we forget it can fail. Some precautions are worth taking, IMO.

[Babette]

Good post! Tell us more about this power outage alarm. I know there are others here that will want to know.

Glad you survived! And glad you came up with a solution!!!!

Hugs,
B.

[PastorDan]

Glad you're all right, but gee, I was just getting my mind set to head down the hall to my M-Series. I use a nasal mask, and haven't resorted to mouth taping (so far), so I'm hoping I'd be at somewhat reduced risk.

[Wulfman]

If you haven't already, it would be a good idea to check the machine settings.
There's a setting called "Auto Off". That setting should be turned "OFF". In cases of large leaks or shallow breathing, it may turn your machine off.....and you'll experience something along the lines of what you encountered.

Others have also reported having similar problems that apparently were a problem with the "power brick".


Den

[Bearded_One]

A UPS would have been ideal for this occurrence; it would have probably powered the CPAP machine for the entire six minutes and would probably have alerted you to the outage.

Note that some ResMed equipment can be damaged if operated from common UPS's.

[DreamStalker]

what Den said

[feeling_better]

If you haven't already, it would be a good idea to check the machine settings.
There's a setting called "Auto Off". That setting should be turned "OFF". In cases of large leaks or shallow breathing, it may turn your machine off.....and you'll experience something along the lines of what you encountered.

Others have also reported having similar problems that apparently were a problem with the "power brick".


Den

That was already off. I turned it off the first day.

[feeling_better]

Good post! Tell us more about this power outage alarm. I know there are others here that will want to know.

Glad you survived! And glad you came up with a solution!!!!

Hugs,
B.

No off the shelf solution I know off, other than the above post of UPS. That would not help at all in a similar situation if the power plug of the machine was coming off of the UPS. And I am not sure the power plug did become lose.

I would have to design something.

If I were on the other side, as an FDA person, I would require every cpap to have a battery controlled alarm which will sound off, if the machine turns off other than thru somebody pressing the power off switch. That is a little bit more complicated than what I was thinking of doing.

My immedate step is stop mouth taping until I have an alarm Because it may be a problem with this particular machine I have.

[Guest]

NOTE: you are INCORRECTLY taping your mouth.

If you are to do this, only use a 1" wide single piece of paper medical tape, it should go horizontal across the lips only AND the part you failed to include with yours IS a QUICK REMOVAL FLAP.

The "quick removal flap" is placed on your favored hand side, you make it by folding about 1/4" of the tape BACK over itself creating a "flap" that doesn't stick.

That flap then remains free and doesn't stick to your mouth/face so if this happens you grab the flap and quickly remove the tape.

Our natural instinct is to REMOVE anything from our breathing orifices when we cannot breathe or get the air we need, your idea and way of taping is breaking that cardinal rule by having no means to quickly remove it from your face, this is a BIG NO NO. then on top of that you use of a chin strap that only makes it worse.

It is your life, but if you are to do the tape thing, you have to do it RIGHT or don't do it at all. Full Face masks have a anti-asphyxia valve or entrainment flapper valve built-in to prevent this very thing from happening.

It is my opinion this machine was designed by a bunch of idiots.

Your Remstar M series machine became unplugged. This happens a lot especially since they started to bring the hose outlet out the back, the machine gets tugged around in all different directions.

While it works good when it is functioning, this machine is plagued with design problems. When you look at it closely, it is pretty hard to come to any other conclusion, it was designed by a bunch of idiots who have never used a CPAP machine before, who have never experienced the hassles of OSA and/or slept with one of these devices.

Hopefully the new owner Philips will see the same and can the whole stinking design team of that machine. Knowing Respironics they probably outsourced the design to save $10 bucks.

Problem(s) experienced with the M series to date:

1. Power cord comes unplugged!! to easily from the back, this has happened since the machine was first released, plugs were so loose you had to tape it in place to keep it powered.

2. It has bright BLUE LED's that light up the whole room!!, no way to dim them, no way to disable or turn them off. Sleep industry says for better sleep to eliminate ALL bright lights in the room what did the idiots at Respironics do? They made a sleep therapy machine with the very color of light you should NOT use!!

3. They put a cover door over the LCD!! and then NO backlight to view it, when do you normally need to see the LCD? Cheap bastards didn't even include a flash light or candle to view it.

4. Then they bring the hose out the rear!!, How is this machine used? it is made to sit on the nightstand next to your bed. Where did those idiots bring the hose out? Yep, out the back!! Their design lab in Murraysville must have the night stands at the foot of the bed.

Where does it NEED to come out? Yep, out the front just like the old models. So what do they do they give you a swivel elbow that goes on the back to route air flow and bring the hose around the machine so you can actually use it.

Next they find out water from the humidifier condenses the hose if it makes its way back to that swivel elbow it leaks onto your night stand and water damages your furniture. To remedy that problem and remove liability they remove the elbow from the box. Did they replace it with a non-swivel type so it wouldn't leak? NO they make you buy the very elbow they removed from the packaging. Check your owners manual, it lists that swivel elbow right in the included items. Did you get one? I bet not.

5. Integrated Humidifier is a design disaster: Now don't get me wound up about the integrated humidifier as that had to be designed by the chief moron of the design team who once worked at Nasa and designed the O-rings on the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.

First they made the tank internal so you couldn't see what was going on, then made it so it was a split tank design, yes, split below water line!! To make the seal, they put in place a dinky o-ring to maintain seal between the top and bottom half.

Take it apart a few times for cleaning and it is eventually going to leak. That design works fine with water just sitting in it sitting on the counter but place it in its stall in the machine and turn it On with CPAP pressure and it blows water right past the O-Ring where it drips down inside, right next to all the electrical for the heating element.

This leak now drips inside the humidifier chassis undetected. This water drips all night runs down inside next to the heating element where it settles directly under the machine inside the humidifier platform. There are some injection vent holes about dead center where the machine rests on the platform, that water runs through the electrical corroding every electrical connection it comes in contact with and if you pick up the machine the water runs out that hole directly under the machine.

They have since redesigned the tank several times and I haven't seen yet where they got it right. So if you wake up during the night and it seems you are in a flood, check the machine that is most likely where it will be.

Like I said that machine was designed by a bunch of idiots there is no other conclusion one can come to.

I highly recommend that you go through programming and make sure you disable the "Auto:Off" feature, because if you develop a large leak and/or shallow breath that stupid machine will shut itself off. It has Auto:On and if it can sense your breathing it "may" restart, but not always. Auto:On is not compatible with most Full Face masks especially those with the flapper valve, once the machine shuts off that valve flips and you begin breathing through the by-pass valve (as opposed to rebreathing your own exhaled air as you just experienced).

If you are going to try taping again, create the quick removal flap or use a Full face mask.

[Guest]

Snoredog: Please don't go near any high buildings or bridges!

[Shellie_p]

And you dont have to have the CPAP machine on the UPS proper to get the benifit of the alarm. My boyfriends desk is in our room and his (computer)UPS screams if the power goes out, And even if it doesn't after 13 years of CPAP use I wake up imediatly at any loss of pressure. SO even if you can't put the CPAP on the UPS put something else in the room on it like your alarm clock or something.

I dunno how cheap you can get UPS now but we bought ours like 4 years ago from best buy for 40$. Great investment. And we have a small halogen bedside light that is also pluged into the UPS so if the power does go out the UPS can run that little light forever. Ok so not forever but a dang long time. LOL. Since the computer shuts off in the first 3 minutes the lamp can run for at least 13 hours. Never tried it for longer yet.

[Shellie_p]

NOTE:

It is my opinion this machine was designed by a bunch of idiots.

Your Remstar M series machine became unplugged. This happens a lot especially since they started to bring the hose outlet out the back, the machine gets tugged around in all different directions.

While it works good when it is functioning, this machine is plagued with design problems. When you look at it closely, it is pretty hard to come to any other conclusion, it was designed by a bunch of idiots who have never used a CPAP machine before, who have never experienced the hassles of OSA and/or slept with one of these devices.

You know I have wondered the exact same thing. The only conclusion I have been able to come to is whoever designed it has NEVER SLEPT with a CPAP before. That is obvious. And they must have had NO common sense to start with.

Hopefully the new owner Philips will see the same and can the whole stinking design team of that machine. Knowing Respironics they probably outsourced the design to save $10 bucks.

Ahh we can only hope this will be the case. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Problem(s) experienced with the M series to date:

1. Power cord comes unplugged!! to easily from the back, this has happened since the machine was first released, plugs were so loose you had to tape it in place to keep it powered.

I have noticed that the main reason for this is because the power brick is so poorly placed for mine It doesn't reach the floor and if you set it on the bedside table then its to short to reach the outlet unless the outlets exaactly behind the table. Why couldnt they integrate this block into the body of the unit itself? Or at least give you a longer cord.

2. It has bright BLUE LED's that light up the whole room!!, no way to dim them, no way to disable or turn them off. Sleep industry says for better sleep to eliminate ALL bright lights in the room what did the idiots at Respironics do? They made a sleep therapy machine with the very color of light you should NOT use!!

But I don't mind the blue color boyfriend HATES It but his computer has the same colors so it all blends in For me though its a nice light to see to the bathroom. lol

3. They put a cover door over the LCD!! and then NO backlight to view it, when do you normally need to see the LCD? Cheap bastards didn't even include a flash light or candle to view it.

Heh my machines only a year old and the LCD panel is already starting to have a blank spot. And since I have to have the machine sit on my table BACKWARDS because of how the hose attaches I can't even read the panel without a contortion act.

4. Then they bring the hose out the rear!!, How is this machine used? it is made to sit on the nightstand next to your bed. Where did those idiots bring the hose out? Yep, out the back!! Their design lab in Murraysville must have the night stands at the foot of the bed.

Hrmm thought about puttting it at the foot of the bed but can you Imagine the length of hose youd need?!? OMG probably like 20 feet and have to take it up to the ceiling and hang it across to keep from getting anacondaed in the middle of the night. Or end up with the BF's feet in the face.

Where does it NEED to come out? Yep, out the front just like the old models. So what do they do they give you a swivel elbow that goes on the back to route air flow and bring the hose around the machine so you can actually use it.

Next they find out water from the humidifier condenses the hose if it makes its way back to that swivel elbow it leaks onto your night stand and water damages your furniture. To remedy that problem and remove liability they remove the elbow from the box. Did they replace it with a non-swivel type so it wouldn't leak? NO they make you buy the very elbow they removed from the packaging. Check your owners manual, it lists that swivel elbow right in the included items. Did you get one? I bet not.

[/quote] Haven't gotten my humidifier yet. But nope didn't get the swivel elbow. Gonna demand it from the DME though.

5. Integrated Humidifier is a design disaster: Now don't get me wound up about the integrated humidifier as that had to be designed by the chief moron of the design team who once worked at Nasa and designed the O-rings on the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.

First they made the tank internal so you couldn't see what was going on, then made it so it was a split tank design, yes, split below water line!! To make the seal, they put in place a dinky o-ring to maintain seal between the top and bottom half.

Take it apart a few times for cleaning and it is eventually going to leak. That design works fine with water just sitting in it sitting on the counter but place it in its stall in the machine and turn it On with CPAP pressure and it blows water right past the O-Ring where it drips down inside, right next to all the electrical for the heating element.

This leak now drips inside the humidifier chassis undetected. This water drips all night runs down inside next to the heating element where it settles directly under the machine inside the humidifier platform. There are some injection vent holes about dead center where the machine rests on the platform, that water runs through the electrical corroding every electrical connection it comes in contact with and if you pick up the machine the water runs out that hole directly under the machine.

They have since redesigned the tank several times and I haven't seen yet where they got it right. So if you wake up during the night and it seems you are in a flood, check the machine that is most likely where it will be.

Now this one scares me as I have recently got the perscription for a humidifier for my insurance to get me one and I bet the DME is gonna insist on the built in. I actually would prefer it cause my bedside table has very little room to spare. But integrated should fit fine. i have a bedside table of plastic drawers now since i have had 2 ruined tables in the past due to leaky humidifiers. So the table isnt the worry but electricution is!!

And I can add a item or two to your list. Now we all apreciate modernization, and the fact that our machines are smaller, quiter and lighter then they used to be ages ago. But I find that now the darn thing is to LIGHT. When having to stay in the hosptial the combo of the stupid brick in the middle of the cord and the fact that its so light has caused the machine to take flying leaps onto the floor at times when rolling over. Which of course is not a good thing ever!. Thankfully the tables at the local hosptial has drawers are big enough to insert the machine into.

I have to go tomorrow to a hosptial I have never been to before for a heart cath and this worries me. It not being home there's no good way to secure the machine. I just have to pray they have bedside tables with drawers big enough. I guess if worse comes to worse I can lay the darn thing in bed beside me. lol. No not a wise idea but tempting.

Like I said that machine was designed by a bunch of idiots there is no other conclusion one can come to.

You know I can't understand why the companys that design these things don't talk to the people who actually use them. Or have to actually use what they design themselfs. It's not like its impossible to survery or ask people for opinions on these things not with the information age we have now. It just seems pointless to me.

[WearyOne]

Guess I'm the weird one , but I really like my M Series Pro. The only two things I would change would be to have a longer electrical cord from the brick to the outlet, and the LED screen should be lighted and larger! But even these are things I can easily live with the way they are.

I actually like the blue lights, and the way I have mine set up, the hose coming out of the back is the only way it would work. I'd have a major problem making it work in my setting if it hose came out the front. Never had it come unplugged either.



Pam

[birdshell]

NOTE: you are INCORRECTLY taping your mouth.

If you are to do this, only use a 1" wide single piece of paper medical tape, it should go horizontal across the lips only AND the part you failed to include with yours IS a QUICK REMOVAL FLAP.

The "quick removal flap" is placed on your favored hand side, you make it by folding about 1/4" of the tape BACK over itself creating a "flap" that doesn't stick.

That flap then remains free and doesn't stick to your mouth/face so if this happens you grab the flap and quickly remove the tape.

Our natural instinct is to REMOVE anything from our breathing orifices when we cannot breathe or get the air we need, your idea and way of taping is breaking that cardinal rule by having no means to quickly remove it from your face, this is a BIG NO NO. then on top of that you use of a chin strap that only makes it worse.

It is your life, but if you are to do the tape thing, you have to do it RIGHT or don't do it at all. Full Face masks have a anti-asphyxia valve or entrainment flapper valve built-in to prevent this very thing from happening.

<snip>

I concur with you, Snoredog, about the quick-removal flap. However, were I to use a 1" horizontal piece of paper tape, I would have wasted the tape because it wouldn't have kept my mouth closed. I have tried this with both 1" and 2" paper tape applied horizontally--with disastrous results.

I tried using vertically applied pieces of the 1" tape partly because I had a hard time finding the 2" paper tape each time I've shopped for it. So, I started by overlapping 3 pieces, always turning over a flap on EACH piece. I eventually started to use 2 pieces, and then one, vertically applied 1" piece of tape.

All of the medical professions seem to be relying upon a non-scientific misconception that taping is DANGEROUS. It doesn't seem to me that there is any approved method of mouth taping that is the gold standard.

Further, where does feeling_better ever say that a chin strap is ALSO used? My reading of the post shows that there is some type of "strap" (pantyhose?) over the tape. Now, to my mind that means a horizontal strap of some kind--which is very easily moved in the same motion as the tape.

We all have to find our own solutions to support our compliance, don't we? Feeling_better, I don't personally think that you have done anything wrong. Keep on doing what you need to do to use CPAP. It does work with a bit of tweaking for us all, and the same tweaks don't always do the trick for each one of us with the same problems.


Karen,

Who simply tries to share her experiences



_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP

[feeling_better]

Further, where does feeling_better ever say that a chin strap is ALSO used? My reading of the post shows that there is some type of "strap" (pantyhose?) over the tape. Now, to my mind that means a horizontal strap of some kind--which is very easily moved in the same motion as the tape.

birdshell, You are correct, I used something as you describe above. Also I had the tape ends also folded over; so it was all easy to remove. The point was not that I could not remove it, but I had to wake up first; and about 5 minutes had passed from the beginning of the shutdown before I woke up, because I was breathin -- though with difficulty -- thru the out port and thru the stopped pump of the cpap machine. Without taping, perhaps I would have automatically breathed thru my mouth -- again not sure of this.

I checked with my doctor. The opinion there is that the danger of taping is not really asphyxia, because you would wakeup, unless you were unconscious by alchohol or drugs. The real danger of taping is that in case one vomits, the vomitus could be aspirated into the lungs.

The real solution for the condition I had (and for a power loss too) would be to have an add-on anti-asphyxia valve, as the built in ones for the full face masks. Unfortunately currently no such device is available, as far as I can find out.

Now an important point many of the people who responded to this seemed to have missed is the following. Yes I may not have been very clear, but I did mention it in the original posting. IT WAS NOT A POWER LOSS. There was no power loss in this particular case. Yes, power loss could also cause similar problems, so having a backup power supply or alarms are all good. [BTW, I do have a UPS in the next room which would have sounded a loud alarm if the power had gone off.]

In my case all the lights of my M-series machines were off, as if the cord has come loose. I checked, it was not loose, and pushing it back or wiggling the plug did not change anything. BUT WHEN I UNPLUGGED WALL POWER PLUG AND REPLUGGED IT, THE MACHINE CAME BACK ON. So my guess is that either the dc power supply or the machine itself shut off --- a microprocessor controlled instrument like this can easily do that, if not suitably designed. Machines do fail!