Help -- please clarify M Series Plus Vs. Pro claim true????

[Slinky]

Yeah, well, I've been having "slinky" days since last Friday when hubby decided to share his "cold" w/me!! I'm now on a Medrol dose pack and Levaquin 750 mg so .... be forewarned diplomacy is NOT my forte the last few days nor today ...

You can catch more flies w/honey than w/vinegar but I'm all outta honey but have lots of vinegar on hand *sigh* so I'm sitting right at the head of the stairs waiting for the next fool ....

[Goofproof]

Thanks Wulfman... Yes, I definitely have the M Series Plus (with Cflex) at the moment, with "basic compliance" and smart card.

That's what I was thinking...

Essentially that's what I was asking... does the PLUS collect the data (AHI, Leak Snore) at ALL. From all I read, it doesn't.

Quite frankly I'm quite shocked by her claim.

And that's a good idea that I keep an eye on the "old" card. Perhaps I'll put a little "+" sign on the front of the card so there's no confusing them.

I'm hard to shock, as Dr House says, everyone lies. Jim

[TossinNTurnin]

..............

And I'd also sweetly add that as far as insurance was concerned a bare-bones, compliance data only, CPAP "and" a fully data capable autoPAP are the EXACT SAME HCPCS CODE and are reimbursed by insurances by the same code and at the same contracted price so the ONLY one being protected from the patient being provided w/a fully data capable autoPAP is the DME supplier BY THE DOCTOR's generic script! Whose best interests is this sleep doctor concerned with? Well, that last question ceases to be diplomatic and probably shouldn't be said. Besides, probably most sleep doctors haven't any idea of all the options these newer CPAPs can provide. They rely on the DME suppliers to provide the "best" xPAP to meet the needs they scripted: x amount of pressure w/x amount or no expiration pressure relief.

Fantastic Advice.

I will keep in mind that I need to be diplomatic so as not to get their hackles up.

But, in general, I DO want to know. Why would my doctor try and prevent me from getting a higher quality of therapy?

[DreamDiver]

OK, I've got my doc to specificity the M Series Pro instead of the Plus.

But, I had a discussion with the tech sleep tech who said that although the PlUS might not give ME the AHI, leak rate and snore information, but when THEY down load the information off the smart card ... THEY are able to see the AHI, leak and snore info....

Is that accurate????

I see nowhere in any of the descriptions regarding the MSeries PLUS vs the PRO that the plus give anything BUT basic compliance information.

Thanks for your wisdom in advaice

TNT

Here's how to get your M-Series Pro to show all data, despite the efforts of DME's to hide it or their "inability" to "find" it.

a. Unplug the machine.
b. Flip up the LED protective visor
c. While pressing down both left and right arrows
plug the machine back in.
It will emit two short beeps.
You can remove your fingers
once you've heard the two short beeps.
You are now in the administrative interface.
d. Press the "+" key. (Setup)
e. Press the right arrow key until you see the panel:
"Show AHI/Leak - Feature: OFF" (Seven times)
Press the "+" key until it shows "Feature: ON"
f. Press the power button.
g. Unplug the machine.
h. replug the machine.
You'll hear the machine emit one short beep.
i. Press the right arrow key three times.
You'll see the leak in Liters per minute, 7 and 30 day averages
j. Press the right arrow key again (or four times)
You'll see the Apnea/Hypopnea index, 7 and 30 day averages

I don't see Vibratory Snore index as available.

This is all the information that will be available directly from the machine.

All other information will be available through the card viewer software and the card reader.

Happy data reading...

[TossinNTurnin]

DreamDiver, that's fantastic information... THANKS. As it's very possible I may end up with the Pro, this info may come in very handy!!

An update:

I just got back from the clinic where I picked up my sleep study. I have yet to read through it, I will post about that later...

Some "interesting" things in the meantime though

Turns out that the original prescription DID specify the M Series PRO and even indicated "Do Not Substitute".

I verified that that it was the original RX sent to the DME.

So, the DME DID change it to the "Plus", even though the RX requested the Pro.. Is that legal?

In addition, as I was writing this, the DME called and "apologized" for the confusion. I was supposed to go in tomorrow to exchange the machine to the PRO, but they don't have it in stock, and it won't be in until next week. It's just as well, because I'm meeting with the Dr. friday and I'm hoping to talk him into the APAP.

Anyway, fine, if they gave me the Plus because they didn't have a Pro in stock... they should have told me that. Then I could've made a semi informed choice. But I SPECIFICALLY asked the DME WHO chose the Plus vs. the Pro and he said it was the DR.

I'm seriously questioning if I want to continue doing business with this DME.

I did get into it a little bit with the RT at the sleep center asking why the Doctor would refuse to prescribe for an "APAP" machine. Which she could/would only answer "because that's what the doctor wanted." (IE; You're not a doctor so STFU, said very politely of course.)

There were no raised voices or anything, but I tried to explain to her ... "Listen I think you're concerned that I'm disrespecting the doctor's medical advice. That's not what I'm arguing. If the Dr believes I would do best on straight CPAP, then that's what I'll do. I'm not arguing for a change in therapy. The APAP can do both Auto or straight CPAP.

I'm coming at this as a consumer who wants options, wants to get the most for her money and as a patient who is simply trying to be as informed and proactive as I can be about my health decisions"

Then I gave her a hypothetical. "Let's say 6 mo. from now, that Dr. B. moves out of state. Now I have a new Neurologist, and due to compliance issues, HE/SHE decides that I might benefit from APAP afterall. Now, I have no options, right? I'm stuck with a machine that won't give me that option, and I'll have to buy a new machine if I want to follow THAT Dr's advice."

She sort of said "right" and gave me a blank stare.

Anyway that's it for now. I'm going to look over the study, and post later.

Again, Thanks EVERYONE for such great advice!

[Wulfman]

You just might get an APAP yet.....

If your doctor finds out that the DME took it upon themselves to ignore the doctor's prescription and substitute machine......maybe the doctor can make them substitute AGAIN.....hint, hint. After all, an APAP as delivered by a DME COULD be set up in CPAP mode by them. AND, the insurance code is the same for CPAP and APAP. If the doctor was to specifically write the prescription for a machine with "A-Flex"......there's only ONE machine that has that feature......the REMstar M Series Auto w/A-Flex.

I dunno......worst case scenario is you'll get your data-capable Pro machine.
Better than 99% of all the others that get ripped off.

Den

[TossinNTurnin]

OK, I understand that the PLUS I have won't give ME the data... (via the LCD screen ...)

But the lab technician is claiming that, apparently through their software, THEY will be able to obtain AHI, leak info from the Machine.

That's what I'm trying to understand... that even if I had the PLUS ... does it STORE the AHI, LEAK info... even if I can't have access too it. But it's "there" and can only be downloaded by the sleeplab/doc?

I am STILL switching to the PRO version... I would like to be able to check my leak rate etc....

But, the tech even went so far as to tell me to keep the old (M series Plus) Smart Card so she can "prove" to me the data is the same between the Plus and Pro....

If you truly have the "Plus" model, you could make a bet with this person for whatever you want to collect......and you would win the bet.
The Plus model won't produce data it does NOT collect......and all the Plus collects is the hours slept......PERIOD.

This tech is either very stupid or very naive. If she tries to prove it, make sure you keep an eye on your card so it doesn't gets switched for one that had been collecting data in a REAL data-capable model.

Den

FYI regarding this issue... I should've made the bet. Although she didn't admit to it not having "leak" info, she tried to claim that the "black line" on the graph on Jan10th revealed leaks. Well that's SORTA true.

On that day, I cleaned my hose with vinegar and water, let it air dry, and then they told me, in order to get rid of the vinegar, run the blower with the hose on it. I did that, and it ran for a while (I kind of for got it for a bit), so it did show that "leak"....

So I said to her... except for the last 3-4 days, I had LOTS of leaking with the nasal pillow masks... and it doesn't show that at ALL.

She looked at me with a blank stare.

Then I said, now what about the AHI and snoring stats?

Oh, well why do you need to know that. Most people don't understand that so what's the use?

I said: Well, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I know enough to know that if I'm having more apnea/hypopnea events it's at least an indication that SOMETHING's not quite right.... right???

Anyway here's the compliance data.

No AHI, No leak, No Snore info.



_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): hose, nasal pillow, AHI, Smart Card

[TossinNTurnin]

You just might get an APAP yet.....

If your doctor finds out that the DME took it upon themselves to ignore the doctor's prescription and substitute machine......maybe the doctor can make them substitute AGAIN.....hint, hint. After all, an APAP as delivered by a DME COULD be set up in CPAP mode by them. AND, the insurance code is the same for CPAP and APAP. If the doctor was to specifically write the prescription for a machine with "A-Flex"......there's only ONE machine that has that feature......the REMstar M Series Auto w/A-Flex.

I dunno......worst case scenario is you'll get your data-capable Pro machine.
Better than 99% of all the others that get ripped off.

Den

Agreed, if I end up with the Pro... I'm proud of myself for "pushing" for that.

BTW... she did mention something about the Doctor not liking A Flex...

I didn't say anything, because I haven't really looked into that yet.

Is the REMstar M Series Auto w/A-Flex able to do "C-flex" instead?

Edit: I did notice that you can get the Auto with A flex or with C -flex...

[Wulfman]

You just might get an APAP yet.....

If your doctor finds out that the DME took it upon themselves to ignore the doctor's prescription and substitute machine......maybe the doctor can make them substitute AGAIN.....hint, hint. After all, an APAP as delivered by a DME COULD be set up in CPAP mode by them. AND, the insurance code is the same for CPAP and APAP. If the doctor was to specifically write the prescription for a machine with "A-Flex"......there's only ONE machine that has that feature......the REMstar M Series Auto w/A-Flex.

I dunno......worst case scenario is you'll get your data-capable Pro machine.
Better than 99% of all the others that get ripped off.

Den

Agreed, if I end up with the Pro... I'm proud of myself for "pushing" for that.

BTW... she did mention something about the Doctor not liking A Flex...

I didn't say anything, because I haven't really looked into that yet.

Is the REMstar M Series Auto w/A-Flex able to do "C-flex" instead?

Edit: I did notice that you can get the Auto with A flex or with C -flex...

RIGHT! The Auto w/A-Flex can also be set for C-Flex. It does have the most "modes" of all the CPAP/APAP machines.

Den

[Slinky]

Giggle. I am SO PROUD of you, TossNTurnin! You have done so much and so well w/the info you've gotten here. Obviously, you are quite capable of being very diplomatic yet firm. GOOD JOB!

It might be worth your while to talk to the MANAGER of this local DME supplier about the original script and the original equipment supplied. I'd be willing to bet that the Plus quickly becomes just a "loaner" so as not to delay starting your therapy until the Pro could be ordered in as the reason for you getting the Plus. BUT, the Manager might well be happy to supply you w/the Auto w/A-Flex as a token of their goodwill and for being remiss in not explaining the Plus was a loaner until your Pro could be ordered and arrive, especially if it might cost them the loss of your account to another local DME supplier and that your DOCTOR is aware of the attempt to provide a device other than what he scripted.

[TossinNTurnin]

Thanks so much. You have been so generous with your time and knowledge.

Who knows, I may not end up with the APAP. To me it really is about having options and making the most of the insurance I have.

At this point, I've already met my deductible, The "extra" I will be paying is "20%", and since I've already shelled out hundreds and hundreds of dollars, an extra 20% is worth it in order to get the best therapy opportunities I can.

Like I said, what if, a few months down the line, that it is determined, by this doc or perhaps another, that APAP therapy would be indicated for me?

And also, IF the machine is capable of giving me the exact therapy he's prescribing, what difference does it make to HIM if I want to spend the extra money for the APAP machine? It's not costing the insurance company more... just the DME. And who is the doctor working for or most concerned about? Me or the DME?

How about giving me a script for tha APAP and then telling me... "The APAP will give us the most options, but if your finances are prohibitive, we can go with the MSeries Plus..."??

[RosemaryB]

I had a DME tech tell me the nearly same thing about the Plus. She said that all you had to do to get the complete data from the Plus was to change the card. I think she really believed this. I asked for her boss and spoke to that woman who did know the difference. I was helping someone get started with their therapy. I ran out of patience with this. My guess is that they tell their employees lies to get them to give you the Plus. The person I was helping also had a script that said "M-series Pro" on it. I raised the roof, asking them if they were state licensed, etc. They did get the pro for her.

My DME tried a different strategy to give me a lesser machine. They called my doctor and tried to convince him to rewrite the prescription. A sleezy business for the most part. They go to these conventions and share information on how to make the most money. That's why they all do it the same. There are a few good ones, but they seem to be in the minority.