just me asking another stupid question about leaks

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:36 pm

ok, here's another one of my stupid questions about leaks:

my pressure is 8.5, i use a decapitated headrest/aura/twilight etc...my ahi is usually around 1, 1.5

as far as i can tell, the intentional leak rate for my mask at this pressure is 22...my average leak is always around 26, and my leak line looks fairly steady, with lots of straight lines and just a few bumps here and there which i attribute to tossing and turning...my large leak is always zero

am i to understand that being CLOSE to the intentional leak rate is desirable? do any folks achieve the actual leak rate? if the line is straight, but still higher than the intentional rate, doesn't that mean that i have a constant leak somewhere? if so, how could i not notice this?

thanks!

and hello den, i'm sure you'll be weighing to to try to get this thru my head yet again...but you have to admit, this is a NEW question about leaks, lol

jules · Post by **jules** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:21 pm

With the swift I actually got less than the intentional leak rate. There is some error in the numbers in the graphs/charts.

If you have horizontal leak graph and are within 20 % ( which the numbers you posted are) I wouldn't see a problem.

At 30 % off and lots of ups and downs the leak graph I would start worrying.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:23 pm

I think this is a perfectly valid question, since I'm wondering about this, too.

LOL,
Babs

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:41 pm

sharon1965 wrote:ok, here's another one of my stupid questions about leaks:

my pressure is 8.5, i use a decapitated headrest/aura/twilight etc...my ahi is usually around 1, 1.5

as far as i can tell, the intentional leak rate for my mask at this pressure is 22...my average leak is always around 26, and my leak line looks fairly steady, with lots of straight lines and just a few bumps here and there which i attribute to tossing and turning...my large leak is always zero

am i to understand that being CLOSE to the intentional leak rate is desirable? do any folks achieve the actual leak rate? if the line is straight, but still higher than the intentional rate, doesn't that mean that i have a constant leak somewhere? if so, how could i not notice this?

thanks!

and hello den, i'm sure you'll be weighing to to try to get this thru my head yet again...but you have to admit, this is a NEW question about leaks, lol

Not me......

"Close" counts in horseshoes, hand grenades AND PAP therapy.

That works for me. I think SOME of it also has to do with the firmware in a machine, too.....and how it reports data. Without getting too detailed with this story......I acquired another new REMstar Auto in December.....it has firmware level 2.8 in it and with all the other components being equal, it's reporting significantly lower leakage numbers and a flatter leak line than the Pro 2 I just switched from. I'm kinda scratchin' my head on this one.

I've also noticed that Encore Viewer rounds leakage numbers UP by several numbers.

As long as the leak line looks "reasonable" and the average is "somewhere close" ......you're fine.

Den

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:02 pm

Okay -- so if we are close to the intended leak rate / line then we can stop obsessing over getting it lower?

I have become very frustrated because my leak line stays just a little above the leak rate listed and for the life of me I can't get it lower although it isn't from want of trying.

My leak line usually looks flat with "occassional" zipper lines where there is a few slight dips close together.

What causes the occassional spikes up straight up and straight down in the same line -- would that be cause of worry. Most nights I don't have that happen but there are times I will have one or two at the most that will spike up and then straight back down.

jules · Post by **jules** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:15 pm

This happens to be the last mask manual I looked it -

http://tinyurl.com/335foh

On page 11 you see a + / - 6 Liter/min for the flow rate.

I doubt anyone is ever going to be exactly at the published leak rate - it is a matter how how close you are and what your leak graph looks like.

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:22 pm

I'm using the same mask, Sharon, and I'm always above the listed leak rate, but it never registers a large leak. Not long ago someone on here explained what a jagged leak rate line means, but haven't been able to find that post again. Hope someone can repeat that.
Kathy
P.S. Check your PMs Sharon.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:31 pm

sleepycarol wrote:Okay -- so if we are close to the intended leak rate / line then we can stop obsessing over getting it lower?

I have become very frustrated because my leak line stays just a little above the leak rate listed and for the life of me I can't get it lower although it isn't from want of trying.

My leak line usually looks flat with "occassional" zipper lines where there is a few slight dips close together.

What causes the occassional spikes up straight up and straight down in the same line -- would that be cause of worry. Most nights I don't have that happen but there are times I will have one or two at the most that will spike up and then straight back down.

Carol,

Are you talking about the dips like are on Mindy's charts in this thread?

viewtopic/t27392/EPEPA-Reports-have-questions.html

I get those, too.....depending on which machine I'm using. I'm using the Pre-M models which have a "gasket" that fits between the machine and humidifier tank......and I've wondered at times if there might be "issues" with the seating of the tank-gasket-machine combination that cause those. I always make it a habit to push my humidifier against the gasket each night as I'm about to turn it on......along with a quick "feel" to make sure I put my card back in the machine and it is properly seated.

I've seen a goodly number of variables in my masks and machines, so I just look at my leak line and the average......and if they're "reasonable" I consider it a successful night.
However, I always look at my AHI number first.

My UMFF at my pressure of 12 is supposed to be in the ballpark of 40 lpm and that's about where I've been at with my other machines.....about 38 - 45 (on a restless night). As I mentioned, my new Auto is reporting leak numbers in the LOW 30's.
My Quattro was in the upper 30's before I Teflon-taped the elbow.....then it went to the LOW 30's, too.

Hope that helps.

Den

RosemaryB · Post by **RosemaryB** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:13 pm

Sharon, this is an unexplained mystery to me. I get very straight lines, sometimes perfectly straight lines. However, some nights I get a leak rate of around 18. The next night it will be 22 or 24. The lines are of the same straightness, but the rate is higher. I did frequently get a leak rate of 18 with the headrest even though the published rates are closer to 22. Not sure why this is.

I posted to try and find an explanation for this a while back, but no one had one. I wondered if it was something like the gasket that Den suggests, too. I think I'll be extra careful to seat that rather tricky gasket very carefully and see if it makes a difference.

My mask is the decapitated Headrest (slightly different config) and my pressure when I first noticed this was 8.5, so the same as you. (I've been experimenting with my pressure a bit lately but it's not more than 9.0). My AHI is similar to your, too.

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:06 am

Thanks for the reply Den. I can't view pictures at work so will look tonight.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:15 am

sleepycarol wrote:Okay -- so if we are close to the intended leak rate / line then we can stop obsessing over getting it lower?

You have my OFFICIAL PERMISSION to stop obsessing.

LOL,
Babs - OCD? ME? No way!

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:37 pm

Babs and Den,

Thanks. I was able to look at the graph and that is how mine usually shows up. I was afraid that it meant that I was mouth leaking as I don't tape or anything. I usually just have one or two of the spikes if I have them.

Of course I have used a few masks that the leak rate was unacceptable and those have been added to my growing pile of masks that I don't use

With the NA I get an acceptable leak line and with the Breeze as well.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:42 pm

Darn, If I had read this maybe I would not have asked my stupid question about leaks.

Jerry

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:50 pm

Hey Jerry,

Some of us (me included) need to read it more than once and sometimes even more than that!!!

just me asking another stupid question about leaks

just me asking another stupid question about leaks

Re: just me asking another stupid question about leaks

Jagged leak line