Missing Data Again

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:39 pm

My M series Respironics Mysteriously stopped recording yet again on Dec 29, 2007 just for one day this time.

The way they do the days is messed up anyway. When loading interactions it is ALWAYS one day off there. Can never go to today but when the report is displayed, sure enuff today is there, well sometimes it is there.

I thought maybe it was the card NOT being all the way in but then it does record the compliance info. Why would it do that if the card wasn't all the way in or the machine left in set-up mode? Exactly, it would NOT.

But then it did it again on Jan 03, 2008

This time it stopped right in the middle of the nite. So the card WAS in, recording fine then bathroom break at 04:30 then nothing. That seems to tell me it is NOT the software (Encore Pro). You have to know I didn't get up at 04:30 after ONLY 4.5 hrs sleep. Who would do that any way?

Perchancetodream · Post by **Perchancetodream** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:26 pm

Do these cards have some sort of a life span? Mine has been missing data as well, both partial and whole nights for the last month. And yes, it also does not show the current date but includes it in the detailed report.

One morning the machine started beeping and the lights flashed. I removed and reinserted the card and it recorded the last two hours of my sleep, but not the prior six.

I've cleaned it, reformatted it and delayed reading it for 15 minutes. Nothing seems to keep it reporting regularly. It's frustrating, and would be really nice to have a fix. (Of course, that would mean that Respironics would have to admit that something was wrong.)

Or perhaps we are reading it too often?

Susan

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:59 pm

The answer is to clear the card every day. Here is what I have posted before:

I've had the same lost data issue using Encore Pro 1.8i. I've avoided the issue by downloading data every day and setting Encore Pro to clear the card after reading the data. Since implementing this approach I've gone about 2 months with no missing data. Prior to this approach I had missing data every week (as others have reported).

By clearing the data here is what I mean:
I remove the card every morning and save the data by using the MyCPAP Card Utility. Then I read the card using Encore Pro and have the Encore Pro preference set to clear the card after it is read. My final daily step is to review everything using Encore Pro Analyzer (thanks James).

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mindy · Post by **mindy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:02 am

I haven't had any luck with erasing .... glad you have, Nelson. And no, it wouldn't be the EncorePro software. Most likely is the firmware in the machine (program that is on a specialized chip in the machine ... program is there permanently ... hence "firmware").

Mindy

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:47 am

Nelson wrote:The answer is to clear the card every day.

Not doubting that this 'appears to work' for you, I think there may be something else in your routine that is helping.

Even if it was this - it would be a band-aid fix at best = not fixing the true cause. Why would any one want to erase the card every day? Is it really designed to work that way? Has your DME instructed you -"that you MUST erase the card daily"?

I'll continue searching....Thanks anyway.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:11 am

So it happened again - what I have noticed that I haven't heard anyone mention yet is that the total page number changes usu. from 12 to 10 is a clue that the data will show up on compliance but not in the detailed report.

Today it went from 12 to 11 pages - compliance info is there but the detailed info is NOT. Then looking back I saw I have 3 sessions recorded on 1/5. My memory is foggy but I seem to recall someone telling me about this. Whether this is a limitation or fault in Encore, I am not sure but it seems that if you record 3 sessions during the same day (24hr period) that Encore decides the most recent info (data) is not to be displayed for some reason. Is this connected to the missing data problem? Seems to work the same way.

Which brings me to something I thought I'd try - changing how Encore reads the days. Default is from noon til noon. That is right "we" are programmed to think from Midnite to Midnite - so are our calendars but Encore marches to it's own beat.

I changed it to midnite which did reallocate the dates the 3 sessions showed in the compliance area (now only 2 sessions in 24hrs) but did nothing to display the detailed info.

Encore the M(agic) software. I am not yet convinced this is all in the machine (firmware).

wabmorgan · Post by **wabmorgan** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:43 am

I know this has been an on-going reported problem.... but thus far.... I haven't had this problem.... however I do download my data daily.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:07 am

wabmorgan wrote:I know this has been an on-going reported problem.... but thus far.... I haven't had this problem.... however I do download my data daily.

For the longest time I said the very same thing - unless you know what to look for - you will never know. In fact, you may even think it is you forgetting something.

That is one reason I began to document my findings - hopefully if it IS me someone will say hey foghead. But the day/date thing has ALWAYS confused me too.

Like when the little calendar thingy come up at the very end and you say ok go to the last date on the calendar (that Encore brought up) and it says you can't do that. The date is out of range or something - well it's todays date and it IS today - right? But it apparently has NO data for today yet, so why did it display today then?

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:32 pm

Hi Gumby,

I get the impression that the compliance data and the detailed data seem to be two "separate" things.

btw, I usually have only 1 session although I have occasionally had 2 in a night and about twice have had three. It hasn't made a difference with the missing data for me. I give up on trying to figure it out and will leave it to you all

Mindy

coldnose · Post by **coldnose** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:23 pm

I've been monitoring my data since last March (couple of weeks after I started XPAP). In that time I have lost data once (one night only). My normal routine is to download data every Saturday. I've earsed the data on my card only once since I started, that was last May and all data has been recorded since. What I do is I insert my card prior to starting Encore Pro and don't remove the card until I have exited Encore Pro. I don't know if this really helps, but I haven't lost any data (knock on wood). My current detailed report is now over 16 pages long, with no issues.

Cheers!

---gary

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:59 am

Gary,

Are you running in CPAP mode? If so, that might account for it since more days can fit on the card in CPAP mode (there is less data collected per session).

I also tried not removing card until after I exited EP!

Mindy

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:11 am

coldnose wrote:What I do is I insert my card prior to starting Encore Pro and don't remove the card until I have exited Encore Pro.

This does hit on an important point - while I am not sure you need to put your card in the reader BEFORE starting Encore Pro I never have removed the card when the green lite is ON - the lite remains on even after the data is downloaded and the report generated.

The ONLY time I remove the card is when the light is red.

Confirming again this morning that the compliance data for 1/06/2008 is represented by the green bar but absolutely NO detailed data exist for 1/06/2008. To me that means the card was in the machine & able to record data on that date.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:33 am

Gumby,

If we assume that it's a bug in the firmware, one possible hypothesis is that the program thinks there is enough space to write out the previous night's data at the end of the card but then there actually isn't quite enough space and it is unable to recover from that. The amount of data the next night may be (or may not be) just enough different that it now correctly calculates the space - to either write at the end or wrap around to the beginning. Doing this kind of calculation in a program can be tricky (I have ancient memories of programming and debugging those kinds of things on older hardware).

If Gary is using CPAP mode instead of APAP mode, that would strengthen the hypothesis because in CPAP mode the data records are smaller and therefore the problem should occur less often and might not occur at all if the calculation is different.

Also, the card reader will stay with green light on for some set amount of time after insertion and after use and will switch back to red after it hasn't been used for some set interval. So green does not necessarily mean it is "in use" but it certainly is safe to wait for the red light!

M

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:35 am

ps Since the problem seems to occur mostly on weekends and some of us (like me) do tend to sleep longer on weekends, that could also lend weight to the bad space calculation hypothesis..... but hypothesis is all it is!

m

CompuTech007 · Post by **CompuTech007** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:04 am

Perchancetodream wrote:Do these cards have some sort of a life span?
...Or perhaps we are reading it too often?

A typical smartcard has a life of about 500,000 read/write cycles so I don't think that's the problem. I've been digging into as much as possible to to determine possible causes for this mysterious data loss. So far I'm not finding out much. It could be related to an issue with the firmware on the machine where there is some low level connectivity issue with the writer in the xPAP machine.

Curious to know what version of firmware is in the machines that are loosing data. This might help shed some light on this issue.

Humidifier

Additional Comments: Pressure 11-15, Humidifer 3, CFLEX 3, Using Pur-Sleep Peace