Kidney Stones – Any interrelation to OSA/SDB?

Nodzy · Post by **Nodzy** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:19 am

OSA/SDB sufferers already know that more secondary ailments or diseases are closely linked to OSA/SDB than generally recognized in the medical community. The effects of sleep deficit, and associated periods of oxygen insufficiency, sometimes coupled with periodic carbon dioxide retention, causes premature deterioration and rapid tissue aging. The body is weakened; its functions are deterred from operating at peak efficiency and all manner of peripheral negative effects manifest. Many existing ailments can be worsened and many others can be encouraged to manifest openly by such weakening of the body’s ability to resist or counter ailment onset.

I am a lifelong OSA sufferer, with multiple decades of it being undiagnosed and untreated.

I have had three (3) significant bouts with kidneys stones since 1980 despite having always maintained a fairly healthy diet. During a hospital admission for them in the early 90’s I passed over forty (40) stones. Most were pepper-flake size, four (4) were at or near BB size, and the largest one was russet potato shaped at 8.3mm long by 5.1mm wide at its widest point. Yes, I passed that one too, and without any resultant bleeding. A nurse told me that stone, for me, was the equivalent of an average woman having a 35 to 40-pound baby. She had four (4) children, so I assumed that what she told me was accurate.

In 2003 a kidney stone bout yielded a stone of 7.1mm long by 4.0mm wide, with an unknown quantity of lesser sized stones.

In my family among those with obvious or diagnosed SDB/OSA many have had kidney stone problems. Some of those have also had gall stones. Among my neighbors, acquaintances, friends and coworkers with obvious or diagnosed sleep disorders many expressed having experienced kidney stones. Some of those folks also mentioned having had gall stones.

I’m wondering if the multitude of negative effects of OSA/SDB include, at least in some people, enhancing the ability of the body to form stones. Surely, heredity, lifestyle and food and beverage intake have part in the mix. But I have to wonder if there's an SDB correlation.

Nodzy

SisterShotgun · Post by **SisterShotgun** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:43 am

I just went through passing kidney stones in the past few weeks..MY GOD THAT HURT LIKE HELL!!!

I have never had them before and I hope I never have them again

I also had my gall bladder taken out in 2004..

My apnea went undiagnosed for over 12 years so who knows all of the above could be related.

lilsheba · Post by **lilsheba** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:50 am

Nodzy and SisterShotgun...I"m really sorry to hear that....that has to be one of the most painful things to have next to giving birth for sure. I haven't had kidney stones or gall stones myself so maybe I'm one of the lucky ones.

Jeanine

Organplayer · Post by **Organplayer** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:59 am

Been there, passed stones. Two times in the last year. T'is no fun.

Kevin

SisterShotgun · Post by **SisterShotgun** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:59 am

It is painful..I have a high tolerance to pain but this had me on the floor in a fetal position begging for someone to shoot me I will admit while in the hospital they did give me some awesome pain killers that took the pain away in a matter of minutes, I was a zombie and had my mask attached to my face the whole time and got some strange looks

I find it amazing that something as small as a grain of sand can bring someone to their knees and make them cry like a baby

lilsheba · Post by **lilsheba** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:07 am

Well it may be the size of a grain of sand but it's still being forced to go through a tube that's smaller than it is....so it's gonna hurt no matter what and BADLY.

I have no problem with taking pain meds whenever I can LOL. If they help they are worth it.

Susanm · Post by **Susanm** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:19 am

I've only had one bout with a kidney stone so far, back when I was 22 or so. It completely blocked off my right ureter and caused my kidney to go into "colic." Now that was fun ... I thought I was dying for sure. Made labor pains pale in comparison. I didn't have health insurance, so they made me pass it myself instead of removing it. The urologist told me it was roughly the size and shape of a .22 bullet, but spiky like a sea urchin. The passing wasn't anywhere near as painful as the colic, but it wasn't something I'd do for fun, either.

Susan M

tater pie · Post by **tater pie** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:32 pm

I've had kidney stones 3 times also but I started having them back when I was 29 years old and skinny and didn't have sleep apnea. Most of the people in my family have kidney stones and some have apnea and some don't. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between kidney stones and apnea with my family. My stones are so large that they can't even leave the kidney and block it off and cause really serious infections to start up. My temperature shot up to over 108 with my first kidney stone and I became delirious and had to put on an ice bed (that means you lay on a bed covered with ice and then they cover you with ice) to try and control the fever. Fortunately that happened while I was in the hospital. The first time my fever went out of control was in the middle of the night at home. I started having chills so hard that the bed was shaking. It woke my husband up and he worked with me until I finally became lucid again but when I did, I had no memory at all for about 4 or 5 hours. I didn't know who I was and I didn't know him or my kids. I couldn't pass the stone and had to have it surgically removed (that was before lithotripsy) and part of the kidney had to be removed also because it was too infected and deteriorated to hold sutures. I had never been that sick before in my life and hope I don't ever get that sick again. I was in the hospital for three weeks. The doctor said I had probably had that stone for years and I never passed blood either. The second time I had a stone was five years later and I knew what was going on so I went to the hospital immediately and they gave me a morphine shot. That was blessed relief. It was too large to pass also but lithotripsy had come along and I got that and they were able to break the stone up and get it to pass. The third time I had a stone, I had outpatient lithotripsy and passed the stone quite easily. I haven't had a stone in 17 years but my brother went over 20 years bewtween passing stones once. My stones are caused by infection and not by what I eat so you might want to get the stone analyzed the next time you pass one so you wil know what to watch out for. I have to be really careful with UTI's and get them treated immediately. I feel for anybody who suffers from them. They can sure give you some grief.

shippy · Post by **shippy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:43 am

sistershotgun

It is painful..I have a high tolerance to pain but this had me on the floor in a fetal position begging for someone to shoot me

Last Tuesday morning got up at my usual 5 A.M. took a shower and while toweling off the pain hit me in my lower right side. I thought i had a high tolerance for pain also but this had me where i could not stand up or sit up, finally i made it back to my bed and could not find one posistion where it didn't hurt. After laying there moaning and groaning until 8 A.M. my wife called the ambulance the 6 mile ride to the ER room seemed like 40 miles on my back groaning with every bump. I did not have a clue what was wrong and thought it might be a ruptured appendics or something. Anyways two morphine shots and a catscan later the doc came in and said there were two stones in the right kidney that have been in there for some time now. My personal doc set me up to see a urologist next week don't know what he will do and i don't think they passed yet. I think the whole episode was caused by one of the stones slipping and sliding around in my kidney. Saw this post last week but was still hurting and did not reply then, laid around in bed pretty much till Saturday popping Motrins and Vicodins, which the ER room doc prescribed, it turned out gave me an allergic reaction (broke out in a nasty rash) and the doc told me to take over the counter extra strength tylenol if it acted up again. Never had a problem before with stones wondering if they are OSA related like the original poster said. Went back to work on Monday of this week and am hanging in there some soreness still.

Dale

SisterShotgun · Post by **SisterShotgun** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:21 am

shippy wrote:sistershotgun

It is painful..I have a high tolerance to pain but this had me on the floor in a fetal position begging for someone to shoot me

Last Tuesday morning got up at my usual 5 A.M. took a shower and while toweling off the pain hit me in my lower right side. I thought i had a high tolerance for pain also but this had me where i could not stand up or sit up, finally i made it back to my bed and could not find one posistion where it didn't hurt. After laying there moaning and groaning until 8 A.M. my wife called the ambulance the 6 mile ride to the ER room seemed like 40 miles on my back groaning with every bump. I did not have a clue what was wrong and thought it might be a ruptured appendics or something. Anyways two morphine shots and a catscan later the doc came in and said there were two stones in the right kidney that have been in there for some time now. My personal doc set me up to see a urologist next week don't know what he will do and i don't think they passed yet. I think the whole episode was caused by one of the stones slipping and sliding around in my kidney. Saw this post last week but was still hurting and did not reply then, laid around in bed pretty much till Saturday popping Motrins and Vicodins, which the ER room doc prescribed, it turned out gave me an allergic reaction (broke out in a nasty rash) and the doc told me to take over the counter extra strength tylenol if it acted up again. Never had a problem before with stones wondering if they are OSA related like the original poster said. Went back to work on Monday of this week and am hanging in there some soreness still.

Dale

Ouch, I hope you are feeling better...I hope I have passed the last of my stones. I have a mini gravel pit in a jar that I gave to my doctor..For now on I am drinking as much cranberry juice that I can get my hands on, as well as canned cranberry sauce..

tater pie · Post by **tater pie** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:41 am

Cranberry juice can taste pretty bad to some people so if you don't like it, there are also cranberry capsules you can buy in the health foods and vitamin section of your local supermarket and they dont' contain the sugar that most cranberry drinks do. Your doctor advised taking over the counter strength Tylenol for kidney stone pain! How ridiculous. That won't even begin to help. I am also allergic to Vicodin but there are a lot of other pain meds out there that he could prescribe. I hope he also prescribed an antibiotic to help with the infection in the meantime. If he didn't, you might end up in the emergency room on an ice bed like I did. I hope you get some relief and get better soon. The infection can also cause extreme nausea and high fever (high enough to halluciate).

shippy · Post by **shippy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:33 pm

Thanks

sister and tater

Felt pretty good today no pain and no tylenol today, drinking lots of water, apple juice, tried the cranberry juice last week and it seemed to hurt worse, still drinking my coffee two cups in the morning, don't know if thats bad or not. The ER doc didn't prescribe or mention antibiotics, waiting to see the urologist a week from today and see what he says. A friend of mine who is about 30 and had his first stone at 22 and has had several episodes since, said his insurance would not cover blasting them (litroscopsy think thats how it spelled) insurance said it was not a medically nessesary procedure go figure !!!!!!

Dale

needingu · Post by **needingu** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:26 pm

I have heard within the last two week from 2 different sources that lemonade will stop the formation of kidney stones.

My nephew had a colon condition requiring the removal of his colon and afterwards he said he had a handful of small stones. His doctor told him if he drank lemonade every day that he would not form any more. If it was because of the removal of his colon or if it would help in other situations I do not know..

But it surely would be worth looking into as it is so painful.
I have never had one and don't want one. I heard from a friend he also had to drink lemonade to prevent kidney stones..
Do some research..

You never know.. I had been telling my doctor for years that acidophillus (a good bacteria which is in buttermilk, cheese, yogurt) kept me from getting diverticulitis. Now he prescribes a capsule 3 times a day with metamucil and says,"if you will take this you will not have diverticulitis symptoms. Know where I found that 20 or more years ago....in the Prevention Magazine.
So we have more thing available ..if we only knew.

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:33 pm

I had kidney stones removed five years ago.
It started with recurring urinary infections, and blood in the urine.
Sonogram revealed a kidney stone the size of a marble!
I had lithotripsy to break up the stone, and two days later the problems began.
Evidently the lithotripsy didn't break up the stone into small enough particles, and a fairly large piece got caught in the ureter (sp.?)
I never had any idea that it was possible to experience that kind of pain.
I was begging for mercy and crying until they gave me a heavy duty shot for pain. I wound up having to have the fragments surgically removed by a tiny pair of pliars! LOL. And you'll never guess which opening the pliars had to be inserted into. What was equally bad was having the catheter remain inserted for three weeks afterwards. As you can imagine, for a man, that was no fun thing.
My doc said she has gone through childbirth and kidney stones, and would gladly prefer childbirth.

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:40 pm

needingu wrote:I have heard within the last two week from 2 different sources that lemonade will stop the formation of kidney stones.

My doc claims that that is absolutely true!
They have done extensive studies in Europe and found that if you drink two liters of lemonade per day, stones won't develop. It has shown to be far more effective than cranberry juice.

She also added that MOST people discontinue the lemonade regimen after a short while. We all have short memories I guess....

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