ResMed S8 AutoSet Vantage (slight rant - request for info)

j.a.taylor · Post by **j.a.taylor** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:58 pm

O.K.

As some of you know, I asked my Doctor for a data capable machine, and my RT thought, based on what I told her that I needed an APAP.

So far, so good . . .

Doc wrote the prescription, but a general one, for an APAP. Picked it up today, stopped at the DME, brought her my old machine. Told her I'd really like a Respironics.

She suggested the AutoSet Vantage. Prefers it, and after all, my insurance has already paid for the humidifier (never mind that they price the Vantage higher than they do the Respironics A or C-Flex).

". . . I'd really like you to try the AutoSet Vantage first, then we can discuss options" (my time is more valuable than this), "I really think this is a better machine."

So, I brought home the Vantage. Most of what it's supposed to do was disabled, really rendering it ineffective. The data port was covered with a huge sticker (Name, phone number of the DME) in an attempt to hide it. She almost forgot to give me the User Manual (no instructions about differences, no explanations, just a quick over-the-counter exchange, and "Oh, sign here, so we can be sure to bill your insurance for the upgrade").

Then I get it home, am reading the User Manual, supposedly, only ResMed masks work on this machine (go figure), and I have a Respironics mask (which the RT knows, she gave it to me). It does work on Standard Mask, but just the thought that this wasn't mentioned . . .

So to end this slight rant, I thought I'd ask any Vantage users out there . . .

What do I need to know about this machine? What are your opinions of it?

Feel free to PM me if you'd like . . .

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:10 pm

J.A.

I am assuming this is an S8 - if yes then the DME is obliged to provide you with a warranty folde rin which there is a small datacard that plus into the back of the S8 Vantage.

The Vantage is an excellent Auto and in CPAP mode has the EPR feature which in essence emulates a BiLevel by providing an Ipap and an Epap pressure. The Ipap pressure is what you set the machine to. Then EPR 1 2 or 3 represents a 1CMS drop on exhale or a 2 CMS drop on exhale or a 3 CMS drop on exhale.

The Auto part is great for establishing your optium pressure setting - then with that as your CMS setting, switch to CPAP mode & activate EPR with the 1 2 or 3 CMS Epap drop.

As for masks - the machine will work with *any* mask but there is an internal table that holds details of each type of masks's leak rate (the masks listed on the menu are the Resmed masks) and what you need to do is to find out which Resmed mask most closely matches the leak rate of your non Resmed mask (this is in a brochure provided with each mask sold)

What CMS range did they set the Auto to ?

Good luck

DSM

golmos · Post by **golmos** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:16 pm

Hi j.a.taylor,

Resmeds autos are great machines. SO give it a try, as previously mentionesddon't worry about the mask too much. I believe - as well - is related to supported leak rate issues as mentioned by dsm in the previous post

Let us now your progress.

G

Bookbear · Post by **Bookbear** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:42 pm

JATaylor, are you aware that you can enable all those disabled features?
Just make a note of all the settings as they came to you from the DME, then you can return the settings to whatever they set for you (or forgot to set for you) if you ever need to return the unit to them.

I do like my Vantage. It's given me good treatment. I especially like the fact I can get nightly data on a screen w/o the need of a software package or card and reader. Of course, the card and software (which you are not allowed to buy, but I understand are available) would give you more detailed information.

Here is a link to a chart that lists the leak rates of some popular masks. You can use the mask setting on the Vantage that has a rate closest to the mask you use. If your mask isn't listed, or there isn't a setting that matches your mask closely enough, you can just use the 'standard' setting. I do that with my Breeze.

http://www.internetage.com/cpapinfo/leak-rates-1.html

Good luck with your treatment!

drummergirl410 · Post by **drummergirl410** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:54 pm

I also like the Vantage. It's a good machine. I've used it in both straight CPAP with EPR and in auto mode and have been very comfortable both ways. Give it a try, and if your hear is really set on a Respironics, you can always discuss trade options later. I dont' have any experience with other machines but from my usage so far I have found it to be easy to manage and very reilable.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:04 pm

The Resmed S8s are programed to know the accepted "leak" rate for their Resmed masks. There is no need to subtract the accepted "leak" rate for the selected Resmed mask to know your true leak rate as you have to w/a Respironics xPAP.

I e-mailed Resmed to ask them the accepted "leak" rate for the Standard mask selection for my set pressure of 8 cms. .24 L/s is the accepted "leak" rate at 8 cms pressure. So any leak above that .24 L/s is a mask leak for me. (I use the Respironics Simplicity mask).

Unlike the Respironics xPAPs where you have to unplug, plug in and press buttons to access some data, with the Resmed S8s you need only press the Left and Right buttons and hold for 3-4 seconds. The Efficacy Data menu appears on the easy to read, good size LED screen. The Down and Up buttons take you thru the 95th percentile of pressure, 95th percentile of leak, AHI, AI and HI for the night, the week, the month, 6 months and 1 year (after you've used it that long). The Left button Enters and the Right button Exits. This also allows you to access the Usage and Used data, i.e. how many accumulative hours you've used the machine, how many nights you've used the machine plus total nights since you first started using it, and the hours used that night. Because these machines have an internal, 24 hour, noon to noon clock you have to access the data before noon or that night's data is rolled over into the total averages.

You can buy the data card yourself at cpap.com for $18 each plus shipping if your DME won't give you one altho one SHOULD be given to you. Just pull the sticker they've put on it off. Check to see if the slot is there to input the card. It is possible that they've removed the card module. If they have I'd be HOPPING MAD and the pooh would hit the fan regardless how good they'd treated me until that point. There is NO ADDITIONAL COST TO THE DME SUPPLIER FOR THAT MODULE. YOU PAID FOR IT WHEN YOUR INSURANCE PAID FOR THE S8 VANTAGE!!! If that card module isn't present this DME supplier is going above and beyond to prevent you from accessing your data!

I have a Resmed S8 Elite, a Resmed S8 AutoSet Vantage and a Remstar (non-M series) Auto w/C-Flex. I LOVE my Resmeds. I'm currently using the Elite only to maintain compliance until my capped rental is completed and I own it outright. I self-purchased the Remstar but really missed the easy access to so much more data than the Remstar was capable of, hated the shenanigans I had to go thru to access the data w/the Remstar and the LED screen was small and difficult to read. So when the opportunity arose I self-purchased the Vantage and sold my Remstar and software/reader to my son-in-law. I had no complaints against the Remstar therapy, just the data access frustration. And I found the software difficult to install, the graphs no where near as easy to understand. Altho I did love the small chart of Daily Events by the hour/pressure. The Resmed software is EASY to install and use.

I am one who noticed no difference in therapy between the Resmed and the Respironics algorhythms. I just prefer the easy access to the data w/the Resmeds.

JimW · Post by **JimW** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:26 pm

Don't see whether anyone here has yet provided you with how to access the clinician's menu. Well, I won't either - that wouldn't be kosher. A previous thread - viewtopic.php?t=9958&highlight=clinician+menu - very clearly spells out what you shouldn't do. (Oops - that's for the results menu, which Slinky already spelled out. Please check viewtopic.php?t=9765&postdays=0&postord ... u&start=15.)

For what it's worth, the software for the ResMed is currently available for much less money than what Respironics software costs, with the ResScan software running less than $100 US. It's not wonderful software, but has sufficed for me. You can get a generic reader that requires a guide to be installed for ~$35. (None of the ResMed software is made to run on Vista.)

If you have any further questions, be free to ask. I've been using a Vantage since December of last year, and have learned a little. If need be, a telephone conversation might not cost a prohibitive amount.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, resmed

billbolton · Post by **billbolton** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:35 pm

Slinky wrote:Check to see if the slot is there to input the card. It is possible that they've removed the card module.

That would void the S8 warranty, however, they may have fitted a blanking plate without a card slot, as one comes with the S8s when new.

Cheers,

Bill

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:49 pm

Hmmm. If there is a blank or dummy module that can be put in the card module slot MAYBE Resmed is now providing the S8s w/the dummy module instead of the card module, you think?? Then the DME suppliers and sleep labs would be the only ones to have the card modules .... that solves the patient/software situation for Resmed and the sleep labs and DME suppliers.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:13 pm

[quote="Slinky"]Hmmm. If there is a blank or dummy module that can be put in the card module slot MAYBE Resmed is now providing the S8s w/the dummy module instead of the card module, you think?? Then the DME suppliers and sleep labs would be the only ones to have the card modules .... that solves the patient/software situation for Resmed and the sleep labs and DME suppliers.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:19 pm

That thought occurred to me too, Doug. EXCEPT, I find it hard to believe the DME suppliers would SPEND EXTRA to get the dummy module if the S8s continue to keep coming in w/the card module.

UNLESS they can save a buck or two by ORDERING them from Resmed w/the dummy module and then just keep a couple of the card modules to use to download patient data.

(If so, its probably the same tightwad shyster DME suppliers that CHARGE their patients to download the data)!

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:21 am

j.a.taylor, I've used both manufacturers' autopaps:

Respironics REMstar Auto with C-flex

ResMed's S8 Vantage with EPR

I got good treatment from both.

Two reasons I personally prefer using the Respironics machine:

1. C-flex (Respironics' exhalation relief feature) can be used in Auto mode as well as in cpap mode.

ResMed's EPR cannot be used in auto mode. EPR can be turned on only in cpap mode.

2. I like the Encore Pro software much better than the Autoscan software.

I'd thank the RT for "letting" me try the Vantage -- then I'd plunk it back on her desk and tell her I wanted to try the brand I had requested in the first place. Respironics REMstar M series Auto with A-flex. Then you could really decide which machine you wanted to continue using.

billbolton · Post by **billbolton** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:28 am

rested gal wrote:2. I like the Encore Pro software much better than the Autoscan software.

Autoscan software has been discontinued for a while now. The current Resmed software is ResScan 3.2.

Cheers,

Bill

Vasily · Post by **Vasily** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:39 am

Slinky, you are right, the Resmed AND Respironics APAP's can be ordered WITHOUT the card module in them. Yes the cost is less, and unfortunately MANY DME's do this to cut cost on the Auto's.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:03 am

rested gal wrote:j.a.taylor, I've used both manufacturers' autopaps:

Respironics REMstar Auto with C-flex

ResMed's S8 Vantage with EPR

I got good treatment from both.

Two reasons I personally prefer using the Respironics machine:

1. C-flex (Respironics' exhalation relief feature) can be used in Auto mode as well as in cpap mode.

ResMed's EPR cannot be used in auto mode. EPR can be turned on only in cpap mode.

2. I like the Encore Pro software much better than the Autoscan software.

I'd thank the RT for "letting" me try the Vantage -- then I'd plunk it back on her desk and tell her I wanted to try the brand I had requested in the first place. Respironics REMstar M series Auto with A-flex. Then you could really decide which machine you wanted to continue using.

and when EPR is enabled in CPAP mode, it disables it during certain SDB events, so you might as well save some money and just get a straight CPAP.

I like the reference to the "more expensive" machine like it is high end or something, we all know why it is "more expensive", you used to be able to buy that machine for about 40% less.

Wonder why it is that Vantage Users always end up disabling EPR?

If you subtract the Resmed employees on break here, and search elsewhere you don't see many praises for EPR at all.

EPR was obviously more an after thought by Resmed only to address the competition from Respironics who was eating their lunch with their patented CFlex, BiFlex and now AFlex.

It is obvious from these recommendations they are for Resmed no matter if the machine is a door stop or not.

All I can say is try them both, even better try AFlex and compare, I doubt many would still select the Vantage over AFlex especially if the cost is out of your pocket with its inflated price.

In AutoSet mode the S8 responds exactly as the older S7 Spirit, can be a very agressive machine with its response especially if you snore or if you experience any CA's or onset CA's it can go nuts.

Machine	Mask

Additional Comments: Airmini, Medistrom Pilot 24, CMS 60C Pulse Oximeter, ResScan 6