Moving Sale - Lots of masks!

[DeltaSeeker]

Darn - and I was soooo hoping to get my hands on a Hybrid

[blarg]

I'm a straight man, but again, I challenge any of you to find where I make any reference to that fact in any of my posts.

Ok, no problem.

My wife nick-named me "Flipper".

Clippers are $20 at walmart and every girl friend or wife I've had for the last 20 years has cut my hair. I trim my beard myself.

Gracias my friend! Basement eh? Did my wife tell you I snored THAT loud??

Whoa!!! That's BRUTAL! My wife says my stomach does the same thing.

Why do YOU keep reminding ME of YOUR sexuality?!?!?!? I don't CARE!!!!

See my point?

[jennmary]

I second the darn.

[Rabid1]

(DELETED BY AUTHOR)

[blarg]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I feel you are wearing the fact that you're gay as your red badge of courage.

That's certainly not how I feel about it. It just comes up a lot unless I start lying, changing pronouns, and hiding what really happened.

I mean why am I moving to Australia? My b*...I mean girlfriend.

It comes up a lot, and that's just part of normal conversation. That's you going "my wife" or saying, "I remember I used to date this girl in high school." or, "Once I went to a movie about ________. Oh yeah, that was a really bad date actually, anyway..." Our life experiences are shaped a LOT by those that we spend our time around. To leave them out of our stories later is unfair, to us AND them.

My whole point, before the do-gooder idiots flooded this thread, was you don't need to! You have many qualities that endear us to you, and they are 100% independent of your sexuality.

Yup, I know that, and thank you for restating that fact. Most of the time I make jokes about whatever else is funny. Just ask RG about the Comfort Porcupine®.

This time the joke happened to be about something else that has to do with my life.

My sincerest apologies if you felt I was being anything but a friend that will tell another friend something they think might help.

I hope it showed that I wasn't actually offended at anything you said. I just want to point out to you that it's a constant misconception about the gay community. Every time we say, "partner" or "boyfriend" or "lover" or the name of the parade we went to during national pride month (oopsies, another one, "pride") then everyone accuses us of specifically needing to point out our sexuality.

At least I don't see it that way. I'm just commenting on my life as it is. This happened with my relatives once. The conversation went:

My Sister: "I'm still having trouble finding dates."
Me: "Me too."
Uncle: "Why do you always flaunt your homosexuality?"

If you look at the exchange we had in this thread, I think you'll see the similarities. To most, unless I never EVER mention that I'm a fully functioning human being that actually does happen to date people, I'm flaunting.

And I'm sure that's what everyone else in the thread was picking up on as well.

[Rabid1]

You're a good man blarg. You will be missed.

[blarg]

You will be missed.

They have the internet in Australia. You ain't getting rid of me _that_ easily.

[Bamalady]

They have the internet in Australia. You ain't getting rid of me _that_ easily. Wink

And that is a good thing. I hope all goes well with the move.

[robbieh]

When I first came to cpaptalk.com, or when I am new anywhere actually, I always wonder if it is safe to be me out in the open. I don't mean that I am worried what others think of me, I mean I wonder if the new group of people I'm meeting will have a problem with who I am. I hate getting to know new people and making friends only to find out they are intolerant or have a problem with my sexual orientation. I don't care what people think of me but it is like finding out your new friend is an active alcoholic or a racist. They have a problem that will affect your relationship in a negative way. It means you will not be able to have a whole healthy relationship with them. The alcoholism, racism or the homophobia will get in the way.

I don't hate people who have a problem, I just feel sad to encounter another missed opportunity for a friendship. I am gay by birth and out by choice. My being out is not the cause of anyone else's discomfort. Some people's definition of "flaunting" is very revealing of their own unresolved conflicts. When it stimulates a discussion, it gives everyone an opportunity to expose make peace with beliefs that are not healthy.

[Elle]

I hate the word "tolerant". No one 'tolerates' hetero people but in my family there are a couple of people who pride themselves on being 'tolerant'. gee thanks. I have a gay niece who is moving to Ottawa for an articling job b/c she just graduated from law school. She owns a home with her partner and her partner has always attended family functions etc. yet no one has asked her why C isn't going with her to Ottawa.

If it was my straight niece we were talking about there would be all kinds of questions about her romantic partner but when it is a gay partner people avoid the subjects because they think everything related to that relationship is about 'sex' and therefore tabu or 'private'
I actually had lesbian friends whose grandfather didn't want them around the tiny granddaughter. Not only did he see gay people as being all about sex but they must be pedophiles too.

How sad that when I gay person is excited about a romantic relationship they can't talk about it without feeling like they are talking about sex. arghhh.

anyway, good topic. The more enlightened people are the better

[blarg]

My recent most painful experience with intolerance was elections in 2004. Here in Oregon we had a constitutional amendment on the ballot to ban same sex marriage. I had married my partner at the time in San Francisco, so obviously the issue was directly pertinent to our lives. In fact at one point he had to go to the hospital, and I was barred entry into his hospital room to visit him because I wasn't "family". He even asked for them to let me in and they flat out refused. Marriage isn't theoretical for me, it's here and now. It's me loving who I love. And it's more important than many of you realize.

My sister calls me up the day of the election (as we're in tears because we know our state finds us so horrible that we're not allowed to be recognized as a "normal" couple) and tells me that she voted for the amendment, but she still wants to be invited to our wedding when we have one. It was a "moral" issue she said, and therefore she just had to vote yes.

How did this affect HER life? Even if you buy that it's about raising children (I don't) then fine, why can gay couples still adopt children? This had nothing to do with anything but what I call the "ook factor" which is people just think it's nasty. I understand entirely, as I don't get being into women either.

And if your religious views prohibit homosexual behavior, then I suggest you at least sit down and talk with a few gay people about why they live their lives the way they do. Thoroughly examine the issue before you make up your mind. I know I did. I read the bible twice.

Anyway, a few days later someone commented on something about gay people (I don't even remember the specific comment) and I just went OFF on them. How they were intolerant and bigoted and blah blah blah.

I'm trying to point out that a lot of the time gay people are very quick to use the words "homophobia" and "bigot", but it's because we live, eat, breathe and drink these types of comments. And those that live around us and fight battles for us do the same. I'm truly sorry that a lot of the time the intolerance seems to be coming from the gay side of the fence. It's just hard to sit idly by while someone else tells you you can't see your HUSBAND in the damn HOSPITAL and that it's even written in the state constitution that they can do it and they aren't even sorry. I genuinely feel that many people on the other side of this debate don't even see me as human. So, by default, they tend to get the same treatment from us. It's so sad.

So anyway, that's why I think Rabid was jumped on so quickly. For those of you that don't know, since Rabid and I are in the same state, we've chatted a fair bit and I would consider him a friend. He asked a question, and I was gone for a day so I didn't get to respond. Oh well, life goes on. I just hope we all understand each other better now.

[JZ]

I am violating my personal policy of not participating in a thread where things have gotten ugly. But the thread seems to have calmed down for now.

Blarg -- you were very articulate about why you aren't "flaunting." Heterosexuals don't even notice how much they talk about their families, their spouses, their social activities, and how all of that conversation pegs them as being, well, heterosexual. They don't notice because it is perfectly normal to talk about one's family, one's spouse, one's social activities.

Most of us who are gay or lesbian would be thrilled to be able to talk about our families, our partners, our social activities just a little every now and then. We want exactly the same things from life as all other humans do. Unfortunately Blarg, Robbieh and I are somewhat the exception. We have made conscious and maybe painful decisions to not hide, to not pretend.

As a matter of fact, I feel a tremendous sense of responsibility to be open, not in any way flaunting, but to just be who I am and have always been. Why -- because it would be disrepectful to my partner of 18 years to not acknowledge her openly, because it would be disrepectful to my co-workers to hide myself from them, because it would be disrepectful to my partner's family of origin and my family of origin to not share our full lives with them. It has so very, very little to do with sex or sexuality. It has everything to do with being a happy, whole human being.

Before I truly accepted myself I kept myself emotionally closed to heterosexuals because I was terrified of rejection. That stupid mistake did not protect me from rejection, it just made me miss out on any number of wonderful interactions and friendships with heterosexual men and women. Closing off the essence of who one is is emotionally crippling. I have finally learned that when I am just simply myself, I never encounter rejection -- heck, people really like me (and they usually like my partner even more).

Janna

[robbieh]

I agree it is important to be out and not hide who you are... it dishonors everyone, ourselves, our partners, our families and friends. Being out and "normal" puts a face on the otherwise impersonal word "homosexual". It is harder to be nonchalant about your prejudices when the object of one of them is standing in front of you.

I've learned the most about myself from people who are different from me. How boring it would be if we were all alike! I've also learned that prejudice is learned and can just as easily be unlearned. For the record, before I came out, I was a vicious homophobe so I know all the arguments and protestations inside and out. I was terrified of the feelings I had that I didn't understand so I was rabid in my rejection of anything that made me different.

[Elle]

Thank you for this discussion

[DeltaSeeker]

Blarg, I'm so sorry to hear of your experience with your husband in the hospital. It drives me nuts when I hear stories like that. Yeah, I'm a "save the whales" gen-er. So many of my friends have gone through the same or similar experience and my heart aches for them. I've seen the angst of friends fighting who they are and once "accepting" swinging as far on the pendulum the other way. Just as sad to lose a friend because they feel you can't be their friend anymore 'cause the hetero world is all lumped into one and they're all against you. I just sit back and wait. If it was meant to be, they'll come back into your life. And I pray for them to find the inner peace and true acceptance of who they are.

Many of the gay friends I made were in my search to have children. One thing I don't do is advertise that my children were born through surrogacy. Same thing. My best friend's son who had been in seminary to become a priest vilified me for that decision. One of the reasons I would not allow my children to be baptized in the Catholic church. They are seen as a sin. Many people asked why we didn't adopt. I was willing, my husband wasn't. But they don't have a right to question our decision and we don't need to explain it to them.

Just so you know, it IS possible for you to have a family if/when the time ever comes that you want one. I know several gay male couples, some with 2 or more children from the same surrogacy arrangement. Some have even been interviewed by the news shows. In my mind, you have the same rights as everyone else and I am glad this country is starting to recognize that. I don't think it's enough to have "partner rights" you should have marital rights as well. Heck, why SHOULDN'T you have to pay that marriage tax like the rest of us LOL. Maybe put that way the government will be quick to change the situation

My best to you and expecting to see you back online soon!