First camping trip. Ugh.

ScottH · Post by **ScottH** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:35 am

I'm a Scout leader, so camping trips are going to happen regardless of how much extra weight I lug around now.

This weekend was one of our first Big Summer Events, so it was time to inaugurate the new battery pack that arrived just days ago.

I've been dealing with pressure point sores in my nostrils from getting used to the OptiLife, but that had been going well...up to this weekend. I don' t know if it was the combination of tossing and turning (which I do anyway, especially when sleeping in a tent), the VERY cold air (got down to 40 degrees, and NO heating on the way to my sinuses) or the fact that the hose was angled up through the sleeping bag instead of down off the side of my bed, but I had leaks, pressure problems, bleeding sores on my nostrils, all in all an unpleasant first experience.

Between the ripped-up nostrils and utter blockage due to whatever in that grass field I was allergic to, I went without the machine last night when I got home, and of course I'm already acclimated to the thing so I slept like a baby--woke up every few minutes feeling like I wanted to cry.

I have a Breeze/Dreamseal package arriving this week to give my poor damaged nose a break; here's hoping that works, and I'll just have to keep trying to find a way to make it work out in the wilds.

tangents · Post by **tangents** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:54 am

Scott,

My sympathies, man. That sounds horrible. Is the battery incapable of running the HH overnight? I assume you can charge it back up from a vehicle during the day? I just bought a battery (cpap.com's brand), too, and thought I could just plug-n-play with my normal settings.

Hope you get back on track really soon.

Regards,
Cathy

ScottH · Post by **ScottH** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:00 am

I got the larger Respironics battery. The lightweight pack from cpap.com is only rated for one night, and I need two or three to go on camping trips, or deal with multi-day power outages like we had last fall.

I charged it up and ran two nights without recharging. The plug only powers the xPAP, it bypasses the humidifier entirely. You can put water in it and use it in passover mode (which I did), but when the ambient temperature is as cold as it was at camp there's no way to avoid condensation.

I dosed up on my usual 24-hour decongestant today and I'll get "back in harness" tonight so I can try and sleep, but I am looking forward to the other mask arriving so I can give my nose a break.

ColoZZZ · Post by **ColoZZZ** » Mon May 07, 2007 12:57 pm

If your sleeping bag has a zipper that opens at the bottom as well as the top, try setting your machine at your feet and running the hose into the bottom of the bag. This way you've got most of the hose (WITHOUT a hose cover) inside your warm sleeping bag running along the length of your body. I've done this on a night with a hard frost and this seemed like it warmed up the air somewhat on its way to my face.

I'm surprised that you had condensation problems if you were just getting passover humidification.

Forget about having a heated humidifier in the field. One thing I've seen is the suggestion to tape a handwarmer to a humidifier. I don't know if this would crank out enough warmth to make a difference but its a possibility. I've thought about how to get enough heat into a HH quite a bit and don't have any really good ideas.

Good luck!

-Andy

girlsaylor · Post by **girlsaylor** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:31 pm

That's great dedication you have to continue leading scouts and camping with your cpap.

I had a really crazy idea, but...There are battery-powered sox that you might consider, if you can find some that have an unwired portion in the foot to cut a hole for your tubing. It might function somewhat like the heated hose, maybe take a bit of the chill off the air in the tube? I think they take D-cell batteries; probably rechargables would work well for that. I think you can get 8-12 hours out of a charge. Might heat the tube enough to warm things up to comfy.

girlsaylor

ScottH · Post by **ScottH** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:25 pm

@ColoZZZ:

My sleeping bag is one of those mummy-bundle types that has only one zipper, so your solution--while ingenious; I like it!--won't work in my situation. I did leave the fleece hose cover on that my wife made for it, and looped as much of it as I could inside the bag for warmth and mobility, but it was still pretty chilled air. I didn't suffer rainout but did get some bubble-and-pop from condensation in the hose.

@girlsaylor:

Thank you! That's a very kind thing to say. I try to be with them on as many of these trips as I can, but it's still sinking in that serious backpacking or long-range overwater trips are probably behind me now. I just don' t think I will ever work up the nerve to put a very expensive APAP into a canoe or kayak and trust that I can go several days in complete dryness...

Your sockwarmer idea is intriguing and I just might give that a try, although I do worry about a point heat source next to the plastic reservoir or tubing. I imagine most DME case management staffers would have a small bovine if they knew how many of us truck these things out to the wilderness at all, much less how we try to MacGuyver solutions like yours for comfort.

ColoZZZ · Post by **ColoZZZ** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:17 pm

As for packing the CPAP for canoe or kayak, check out the Pelican Case - its a water-tight case with padding inside often used for expensive electronic equipment. I saw a guy last night with one for $50 that would work beautifully for your needs. I checked it out and can recommend buying long-distance if you need to - its in good shape with only one ding that's under warranty but wouldn't affect its seal.

http://denver.craigslist.org/for/320332826.html

--Andy

jmurkve · Post by **jmurkve** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:22 pm

I am also a scout leader and intend on going on many camping trips in the coming years. Most of my trips will be the weekend variety though, so I don't expect much of a problem recharging batteries and using my cpap. I would love to go to Philmont some day, but don't know if that will ever happen. The cpap would be a challenge to bring along, and of course, I would need to lose a lot of weight to even be allowed at Philmont. I agree with you about concerns with a canoeing trip as well! I wouldn't want to dump my cpap in the drink, but I'm sure there will be many new products out there to help us take our cpaps everywhere. Just look at all the accessories created for iPods! There is a market for accessories for the cpap as well, if we can convince a company to develop them!

Best of luck!

snork1 · Post by **snork1** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:43 pm

how about using those hiking handwarmers placed under the HH to heat it up? I think they are good for 4 hours, so just have an extra one handy to snap open when one cools off. They kick off a suprising amount of heat. Might be worth a try.

The other more costly experimental option is to TRY a cheap dental device for the camping trips. You can get the Somnogard AP for about $170 without a prescription. Unfortunately the biggest catch is generally they need to be adjusted gradually, so they might not work well for occasional use. And they will only work if pulling the jaw forward is part of the mechanics of your apnea, and probably won't help if its just weight closing off the windpipe.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:48 pm

Think BIG! There is always a big dutch oven of freshly boiled water sitting on a cutting board inside your tent ... maybe wrapping the cast iron oven in an emergency thermal blanket to help retain the heat a bit longer.

In the morning you have water to wash your face

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:35 am

those nasal prong masks are the wrong thing to take camping in my opinion. Too bad you couldn't get one of these and coil up an extra hose inside, should work as well as a heated hose.

http://tinyurl.com/34hwu6

Other option is to use BreatheRight strips, and some tennis balls in a sock attached to a T shirt with safety pins so you don't sleep on your back.

Be careful getting campfire smoke in your primary cpap, you will be smelling it for months if not forever.

Good to have a spare machine so when you get home you have it there ready and waiting.

Nitro Dan · Post by **Nitro Dan** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:24 am

When I tent camped, I would use deep cycle batteries (so long as you are not hiking into the woods) and an inverter, with a passive humidifier..(more water surface area) The power lasted for at least 3 nights. On the real cold nights, I would warm the water on a stove and add it to the humidifier before turning in. In no time at all I was asleep and had no issues in the morning.

Good luck!

ScottH · Post by **ScottH** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:42 am

jmurkve wrote:I would love to go to Philmont some day, but don't know if that will ever happen. The cpap would be a challenge to bring along, and of course, I would need to lose a lot of weight to even be allowed at Philmont.

The Philmont high adventure program is probably out of reach for me, for the same reason, but their regular 5-day programs involve staying in the tent area so I could swing that--I'd need two batteries to get through the week, though. At least there wouldn't be the worry about cold air!

Snoredog wrote:those nasal prong masks are the wrong thing to take camping in my opinion.

Thing about the OptiLife is that it has one of the least obstrusive headgear rigs of all the masks I tried on at the clinic. I'm one of those finicky folk who gets bothered by too much obstruction or plastic gear up against my face. Minimum strapping and little to no plastic fiddly bits means I can relax enough to actually accomplish this sleep thing I keep hearing about.

Nitro Dan wrote:On the real cold nights, I would warm the water on a stove and add it to the humidifier before turning in.

...and now I feel right foolish for not thinking of that. It's still a learning experience...

Broderick · Post by **Broderick** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:42 am

Try some of the handwarners they sell at Costco & Joe's for skiing and camping. They are a chemical type warmer, no flame. They last about six hours and I bet if you wrapped six or eight of those around the hose it would warm things up.

Just an idea.

danorton · Post by **danorton** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Does the 12V adapter have any electronics in it? I tried a straight through cable from Radio Shack and the device quit and started beeping with Error E-45 after about 5 minutes. (It blew the 2A fuse, too, but the device clearly indicates 3A is required.)

Here's the battery I'm hooking up to ($54 from Pep Boys)

http://www.teamproducts.com/brand-colem ... J8660.html

Thanks for any clues.

First camping trip. Ugh.

First camping trip. Ugh.

this is really a crazy thought...

12V Adapter for Respironics RemSTAR Auto, Error E-45