natural and alternative treatments for sleep disorders

[sleepyjane]

I am very interested in finding and sharing as many natural and alternative treatments to use either instead of or in addition to alopathetic remedies like cpap and drugs.

My sleep disorders are delayed sleep phase syndrome (severe-30 years going to bed at 8 am to noon and getting no sunshine..can't seem to fix it), sleep apnea (high pressure/mouth breather)..on bi-pap or cpap about 15 years with little results), and periodic limb movement disorder--just diagnosed and reluctent to take the drugs which alter brain chemistry).

Some things I know of are the following:

-- melatonin,

--insomnia herbs like hops, kava kava, Valeria, lavender (and lavender essential oil),

--folic acid,

-- b vitamins.

--Dr Shulze's nerve formula and superfood--good source of natural b vitamins, (found at herbdoc.com)

--iron,

--calcium/magnesium

--antispasmodic herbs like hops, valarium, lobelia, black cohosh etc (nervines)


--blue and green algeas like spirulina and chlorella (possibly wheat grass juice),


--tennis balls on back (for sleep apnea to keep one off the back)


-- raising bed at foot,


--going a round the clock sleeping a few hours later each day (night owl thing)


-- pillow wedge,


--massage,


-- warm bath at night on legs (movement disorders),


--possible magnets on legs


--legcalm formula,



--allcalm formula.


--Also dopamine enhancing herbs (will list later)

I will post more as I find them..

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--Are there any other things along these lines you are aware of

-- or links to places discussing this or

--threads on here,

--or books you can recommned on sleep disorders and natural/alternative/complementary treaments

when I put natural in the search engine on here, I get totally unrelated stuff.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I am VERY interested in this especially for delayed sleep syndrome or PLMD and I am sure people with other sleep disorders would be interested in things that may help too.

I am very reluctant to use allopathetic treatments except for bipap and have used alternative health for 30 years. Having trouble finding much on internet so far.

Please share what you have learned..

You might want to say if you tired and success or nonsuccess and what disorder it was for

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): bipap, CPAP

[Guest]

I am also interested in this topic but haven't really found much. I can say that I started to take magnesium a few months before my sleep study and I felt enough better that I almost canceled my sleep study. If you do a search for magnesium you will find lots of good info.

I have also used photo therapy with good effect, both for mood and for wakefullness. I use a sunlight alarm which raises the light slowly in the morning to simulate a natural dawn, and I also use a light box for 20-40 minutes in the morning. I tend to be a night owl, but if I am consistent with using my light box at the same time every day I wake up at that time and feel more rested than if I don't use the light box. I am a teacher and during the summer my internal clock slips later and later each day, but that's not an option during the school year, and the light box helps.

I also have very good luck with yoga. I sleep better when I am maintaining my practice and have more energy. It helps me feel less pain and that helps my sleep quality too.

Finally, I have found that eliminating wheat from my diet is helping my sleep very much. Do I have some sort of non-celiac gluten intolerance? Did I have chronic candidiasis? I don't know, and actually I don't care. I followed a serious cleanse and made numerous anti-yeast changes in my habits as an exercise in focus and self discipline, and I am darned if I don't feel a lot better. Eliminating wheat was supposed to be a short term thing, but everytime I try to reintroduce it I feel worse. Perhaps experimenting with your diet or other likely allergens or environmental toxins would be an avenue to explore.

Good luck. I hope some other people post, I tried to get this going on another sleep apnea site and the administrator deleted my post.

Rachael

[sleepyjane]

thanks, Rachael.

Yes, I noticed magnesium is mentioned quite a bit especially for leg movement disorders.

The light box..good suggestion..I forgot that one. How much do these cost..I have long wanted to try that due to my depression and lack of sunlight. I wish I could find out how to make one using full spectrum light bulbs that it cheaper and then need to find how to convert to the right lux.

The wheat is interesting..I just read something about that and in fact, many grains. I remember it saying to eliminate wheat, rye, oats, and another one. My doctor has been trying to get me to give up all grains except I think she said I could have one but I forget which..I'll be seeing her in a while and I will post when I find out..I know she said no wheat, spelt, oats, and I think rye...even whole grains. I do like brown rice pasta..this was for very early stages of diabetes. But I am not able to do it..I know wheat in particular is bad for blood sugar problems and sleep deprivation is linked with blood sugar problems, metabolic syndrome, and diabetes so that is great that you stopped wheat. Wheat is just everywhere.

Yoga is a good suggestion..I will have to learn more. I think walking is also good.

It would be great if people share there knowledge on this. Curezone.com is a good website. I have studied alternative health for 30 years but have problems applying it sometimes and found very little on my just diagnosed periodic limb movement disorder so far.

Thanks for sharing this..

[roster]

My opinion:

Take all the energy you have to pursue these alternative remedies and instead use this energy to pursue a good cpap therapy, good sleep hygiene, good diet and good exercise (in the sunshine if possible). If you have less than good relations with any people you come into contact then work on improvements.

Hmmmm? I think I need to log off and follow my own advice!

[sleepyjane]

well, Rooster, although you offer some good suggestions, I am a big believer in natural health. I have seen people cured with cancer from it, kept myself off dangerous drugs with it, kept myself from spending money and consuming no OTC drugs hardly at all in 35 years, never seen it fail actually when diligently applied and when one knows what one is doing.

It is one of my primary interests for over 30 years of research and I have read well over a 1000 or more books on it, It is also a hobby and I have seen allopathetic medicine cause many problems in myself and my mother.
My dislike for allopathetic remedies is not without reason and I am not saying never.

The problem is I am having difficulty finding answers for these particular disorders so far. This doesn't not mean I will discontinue cpap nor am I advocating this.

I am most reluctant to mess with my brain chemistry though with dopamine altering drugs for PLMD, given my past difficulties with continual suicidal ideation for 15 years on allopathetic drugs (antidepressants)..the minute I quit the drugs, ALL suicidal ideation left and never returned despite many problems that normally would have exacerbated these problems. Not one thought until this past few weeks several years later after little sleep for days. Had I not decided to quit these drugs, I might be dead now of suicide coming oh so close three times... had I listened and followed blindly the doctors recommendations rather than my own intuition and research.

Now, some years later, it is on the labels that for some people they do have increased number of suicides, suicidal ideation, deepening depression, as violence behaviors while on these antidepressants (SSRI) drugs like prozac, zoloft, etc.. The FDA puts a warning label on the SSRI antidepressants now, so my personal observations about my case turned out to be right and also found in many other people as well Another dopamine increasing drug (MAO inhibitor) threw me in the hospital..consequently,, I am reluctant to alter my dopamine also due to some serious mental problems running in family..I don't want to trigger anything that there is a genetic predisposition for..


A book by a psychiatrist I just got called "toxic psychiatry" says many who got electric convulsive therapy lost their high IQ, jobs, memories, personality, affect, creativity. spatial ability, personality, feelings, etc. Had I listened to doctors telling me I would be fine and pushing ECT on me as the answer, I might have lost my mensa IQ (and my high creativity which is through the roof) like other people did.

I do think that doing the things you mention is very important and I need to take action on some of them, but that doesn't mean I cannot pursue my research and look for health in natural treatments. I am a believer in natural healing and God's modalities (like sunshine, good air, water, whole foods, herbs, love etc) and I will continue to pursue what I have believed in and seen work for over 30 years. But I will bear in mind some of your suggestions as they are good ones but I will not negate alternative medicine and its genuine help for health problems of all types even if noone on here believes in it for I must be true to myself and my beliefs and knowledge born of personal observations and nearly 30 years of research.

Just because you are not a big believer in natural/alternative health does not mean others on here aren't and would not like a sharing of things others learned in their research so they can do further research and decide things in accordance with their beliefs. I felt like you were criticizing me and not wanting this thread on here and so I may be acting defensively..if this was not the way you meant it, I apologize.

I think had you not prefaced your suggestions which were good ones with take that time and use it here instead which implies I am wasting my time on useless things when I know from much personal experience with myself and others, they are NOT useless and are often are superior.

I did not have any of the things my radiologist told me a would have for breast cancer treatment (radiation) since I took 150 supplements and used external natural treatments. I was told I would have severe 3rd degree burns by the 2nd week, my breast would be hard as a wall, and I would have continual twingy pain shooting through my breast thereafter (the radiologist was a breast cancer survivor who had radiation and had some or all of these symptoms). My symptoms were supposed to be stronger because they had to give me more radiation than normal due to large chest and position of cancer. I had none of these symptoms they said except some burning on the fifth week of radiation. "You are really lucky" they kept saying,,,"normally people..."

And I knew a lot less then than I do now.. I do not consider researching these things a waste at all as you strongly implied.

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[Goofproof]

My opinion:

Take all the energy you have to pursue these alternative remedies and instead use this energy to pursue a good cpap therapy, good sleep hygiene, good diet and good exercise (in the sunshine if possible). If you have less than good relations with any people you come into contact then work on improvements.

I use alternative remedies to help some of my health problems, but when it comes to XPAP solutions, I'll stick with what works.(If you decide to make it work, that is..)

A hose full if clean air isn't too high a price to pay, to wake up in the morning. Jim

[sleepyjane]

goofproof..I was more thinking of delayed sleep phase syndrome and periodic limb movement disorder when I posted this and not substituting alternative health with cpap or bipap. I was interested in things that might compliment treatment for sleep apnea and also what might help if one were without power or in the event we ever have a real y2k situation and are unable to use electronic machines..just kind of curiosity on the sleep apnea. I do use a machine and have for 15 years despite my great belief in natural treatments. I wouldn't use it if I thought I had a better alternative solution..but even though I have used it faithfully for 15 years, I still have all the symptoms of untreated sleep apnea.

Doctors do mess up..once reducing my pressure from 15 to 4 and then retesting at my great insistence 3 years later at the time I actually sleep (daytime) and found for three years I was getting nearly no rem sleep or stage four three or four restorative sleep. This showed they goofed up. They did not have my pressure right last 5 years at 16 cause study I just had showed me having apnea at 16 and 17..someone told me I was still snoring.. and went all the way to 21 with no problems.

None of the 4 doctors I have seen ever mentioned the chance of retaining carbon dioxide in my lung on my 10 years on cpap..I was only when I went in there insistent and telling of the grave suffering I experienced over 25 years and 15 on cpap in terms that were realistic in their effect on my life..that they looked a little closer.

I was never told I had periodic limb movement disorder until 3 days ago despite remembering the technicians at the last three sleep studies (12 years or so mentioning I was moving my legs)..never offered treatment or explanation or told this was important...never even mentioned it..again goof ups. Never told about mouth breathing or full face mouths until I figured it out myself 1 1/2 weeks ago and found out they made auto machines and full face masks until I learned it on here,,no doctor or technician ever mentioned it. Learned about taping on here and similar forums too.

I meet a women who also went to this doctor this weekend and she commented..he was a very good doctor. I know at least two of the other ones I saw were worse (although one did give a lot more information than this guy). So if a good doctor messes up, bad ones surely do.

Allopathic medicine has only been around about one hundred years compared to thousands of years of natural treatments. In this generation we are doubly blessed with the ability to actually test natural substances and discover the chemicals that make them work and prove the correctness of folkfore useage for certain diseases etc. many drugs are actually based on their herbal counterpart.

Sometimes like in the case of antidepressants..they don't know how they work or the full extent of their side effects. One thing I have noticed about allopathic medicine is that 15, 20, 30 years down the road they discover they were totally wrong...how do we know 30 years from now they won't discover breathing high pressurized air didn't cause heart problems or lung problems or something. We don't--we trust these treatments the way natural practitioners trust theirs. Although some of the allopathic treatments for some things are superior to natural treatments for other things alternative treatments prove superior. Also naturepathetic medicine has a long history, go to root causes that allopaths call the disease fixing several things at once that seem disconnected, and do not generally have dangerous side effects.


Remember that any time something becomes a big money producer or a lot of people have it so they can make wonderful profits, they will suppress the success of herbs etc. They ignore diseases if only as small number of people have it showing their real motive is money rather than aiding a suffering humanity. If they do that too fine if not, oh well. Naturepathetic solutions are often far less epensive and certainly less toxic (if you know what you are doing)...far less people de from the nature cures than at the hands of doctors, hospital, and drugs. Even doctor errors alone cause many more deaths a year than all the natural treatments combined.

Medical journals have folded when big pharmaceutical or medical supply equipment makers pulled away their mega advertising dollars which keeps the medical journals afloat when they publish anything favorable on studies showing superior results with nontoxic and simple treatment especially if they cannot patent it and make big bucks or it interferes with their sales.

Also the poor quality of many herbs and the way we usually take them (capsules) are not the best for absorption and healing. Take only organic or wild crafted herbs and use tinctures.

A smart person is open to both and realizes that money is a factor in the brainwashing of America that doctors know everything and anything else is snake oil or a anyone with other views is a quack. See Hoxsey the quack who cured cancer for how the AMA took over everything and pushed everyone else out.

Also doctors are not trained in alternative health or nutrition, usually know less than the average person in this, or trained to poo-poo anything they were not taught or were trained to reject, are suited by pharmaceutical companies from college, and rarely read outside the medical libraries due to the massive amounts of paperwork etc and time constraints.

[SleepGuy]

Well, here's one that the doctors have proven to be effective for sure:

I've posted this on other threads and don't want to sound like a broken record here but there are very few homeopathic remedies for sleep disorders that have been proven to be effective through science through a formal double bline, placebo-controlled human study so this one is notable.

The abstract for the first human study of lavender and sleep states:

“Aromatherapy is an anecdotal method for modifying sleep and mood. However, whether olfactory exposure to essential oils affects night-time objective sleep remains untested. Previous studies also demonstrate superior olfactory abilities in women. Therefore, this study investigated the effects of an olfactory stimulus on subsequent sleep and assessed gender differences in such effects. Thirty-one young healthy sleepers (16 men and 15 women, aged 18 to 30 yr, mean+/-SD, 20.5+/-2.4 yr) completed 3 consecutive overnight sessions in a sleep laboratory: one adaptation, one stimulus, and one control night (the latter 2 nights in counterbalanced order). Subjects received an intermittent presentation (first 2 min of each 10 min interval) of an olfactory (lavender oil) or a control (distilled water) stimulus between 23:10 and 23:40 h. Standard polysomnographic sleep and self-rated sleepiness and mood data were collected. Lavender increased the percentage of deep or slow-wave sleep (SWS) in men and women. All subjects reported higher vigor the morning after lavender exposure, corroborating the restorative SWS increase. Lavender also increased stage 2 (light) sleep, and decreased rapid-eye movement (REM) sleep and the amount of time to reach wake after first falling asleep (wake after sleep onset latency) in women, with opposite effects in men. Thus, lavender serves as a mild sedative and has practical applications as a novel, nonphotic method for promoting deep sleep in young men and women and for producing gender-dependent sleep effects.”

Goel, N, Hyungsoo, K, Lao, RP (2005); An Olfactory Stimulus Modifies Nighttime Sleep in Young Men and Women; Chronobiology International Vol. 22, No. 5:889-904.

[Yoga]

Rachel,

The grain the doctor told you that you could have is probably quinoa which was used by the Aztecs who lived in the Andes mountains. Quinoa is allowed for those who have celiac disease, is more expensive than other grains, but is chock full of beneficial nutrients.

[sleepyjane]

I definitely believe in lavender, sleepguy. but I did not know about the study..when I am stressed out and can't turn off my worries and thoughts and stress, I use lavender essential oil and it puts me right to sleep. I have went to some protests in Dc on a bus and I never sleep zero..even if two days no more than an hour sleep do I get but I recently breathed lavender and slept for about 5-6 hours and drowsy whole time..


I have used two tubes together with a connector and shake some oil in between the two tubes. I was putting on mask and three of the profile light masks broke off at the tube piece..I thought the mask were defective till I realized it was the oil eating through the plastic. It does distort the connector piece over time by melting but the tube are ok or can be cut and reinserted. Maybe a vaporizer is better but I do not use one. I did not want the machine too close to my head due to EMF anfd the long tubes aloowed me to put it frther away, but I recetly read if a tube is too long, it might reduce pressure. Is this true?

If one doesn't like this way which is nice and strong and steady..just breathe on a tissue or pillow sprinkled with it before putting on equipment. I also use eucalyptus a lot when I feel congested, stuffy, or that my airways are tight. It opens things right up )same ingredient that is in Vick's but natural) There is also another sleep related thing it helps but I forget what it is now.

Both lavendar and euclytus essentialoils are not homepathy but flower essences are. essential oils do contain much of the herbs or flowers or fruits etc unlike ah's flower remedies or homepathy pills.

I appreciate you giving the details from the study..since I don't want to reduce my rem sleep, I think I will wait till I wake up a few times (I wake up every hour or so) and then use so I get some rem sleep.

I also saw three homopathetic remidies were in the product called legclam. I am going to get them and make a tincutre from the other three herbs that aren't in homopathtic format. (astragalus, horse chestnut, and butcher's broom) and I saw one I just got (I think it was mag something in a book of natural healing of this disorder)..on the label it said for leg cramps and muscle problems.

[roster]

[quote="sleepyjane"]well, Rooster, although you offer some good suggestions, I am a big believer in natural health. ..........................................................I do not consider researching these things a waste at all as you strongly implied.

[vdol52]

I think that we are operating under the illusion that Alopathic treatments and holistic treatments are at opposite ends of the spectrum. That is only true if we believe it to be.
Frankly, I've been taking Valerian, Melatonin and other homeopathic medicines for years and in addition to that I'm trying to get in compliance with CPAP.

I think we should use whatever works for us.
Just my 2.5 cents

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[/quote]

[Guest]

First of all, thanks all for a nice thread.

My light box was purchased and cost about $250, of which I paid about $100 out of pocket. I think it would be easy to make one, but I like how portable mine is and it is set up to angle down into the eyes, which some studies say is better. I imagine if cost were an issue that the calculations for how many lux per watt is online. 10,000 lux is supposed to be therapeutic at 20-40 minutes. I believe there is a lot in the pituitary/hypothalemous/adrenal system that is damaged by SDB and it seems the lights help a little.

The grain that you can't eat along with wheat, spelt, rye, etc. is Barley. They all have gluten. The jury is still out on oats, I eat them and it seems fine, but my friend who has full-on Celiac Sprue does not. By the way, Beer has gluten

I also experienced suicidal thoughts while taking SSRIs. I later was tested at Mayo clinic and turn out to have a genetic difference in a liver enzyme that effects how I metabolize many drugs, including most psychotropic meds. The test cost less than a one month supply of my medicines, and it is a complete mystery why more people aren't tested in this way. (CYP 450 2D6 for the curious, I am a UM)

I think there are many ways of helping your body heal, some more appropriate for certain situations, some for others. If I break an arm, I will see an orthopedist, if I want nutritional advice I will see a naturopath because every conventional nutritionist I have ever met knew less about nutrition than I do. I find learning about health entertaining, but than I read public health books for fun, so clearly I am strange.

Rachael (who mysteriously gets logged off the site with startling frequency.)

[sleepyjane]

all right, thank you, Rooster. I hope people will share what they have learned about alternative health, herbs, and natural treatments as it will help people get a start for where to focus their research and with all the suffering and knowledge on here, I am sure people have read a lot. I just am hoping they will post what they read might help various sleep disorders even if they do not believe in them so that others may research things and come to a decision of it they are right for them either as a substitute or in conjunction with allopathetic recommendations. As adults we should be allowed to learn of various modalities and chose according to our own intuitions. I guess I took your comments as trying to diminish or throw cold water on a thread and make it seem it did not belong here rather than an opinion due to your directing comments at me "your time would be better spend doing these things" which did imply you felt my opinions were a waste of time or invalid...rather than just stating you opinions..which I do think had merit certainly. It was the way you seemed to attack how I was using me time. I do appreciate though your mature response and good wishes in your reply.

[sleepyjane]

vedal52, please share what homopathetic formulas you are using and for what disorder. How much do you take and when.

Also do you take valarian only at night, do you feel it helps, and what form do you take it in (capsules, tincture, certainly not tea with that smell lol). I heard valerian is a great herb.

I tried lavender essential oil (which I can't take when taping my mouth as it is an expectorant like eucalyptis is and makes one cough) and only woke up about every 2 hours instead of every one hour to use bathroom which makes me think I am getting deeper sleep.

I do wake up with the back of my calfs so sore and my knees and now that I just was told I have periodic limb movement disorder, I am guessing it is from flexing every minute or so. I have had a lot of pain in legs and never equated it with sleep disorder. I am a little at a dilemma as I am taking treatments to help relax muscle but read if one takes relaxers it can relax tongue too much and block airways or does cpap prevent that if you are at the right pressure as I think mine does that with or without relaxers as I have a too big tongue to fit my small mouth.