Drbandage

[Elle]

I sincerely hope it is only this matter you are done with. It is great that you are sensitive and I wouldn't want you to lose that but I hope you can overlook the things that grate on your sensitivity and stick around for our benefit and your own.

[NightHawkeye]

Maybe you should just quit being so damn confrontational and take in what we have to offer.

OK. I can shoulder your venting.

I am REAL sorry you have had some apparent bad experiences with MD's and/or DME's, but again, you seem to be taking it out on one of the most interesting posters to come along in here in a long time.

Actually, Tumbleweed, after my initial lambasting from drbandage I exercised great restraint in my exchanges with him. I had no desire to drive him from this forum at all. I wish that feeling had been mutual, but it was clearly not.

Believe what he says or not...... FOR YOURSELF. Let the others decide for THEMSELVES.

Indeed! Tumbleweed, I certainly do not dominate this forum. Ironically, neither did I dominate any of the exchanges with drbandage.

Regards,
Bill

[SleepGuy]

To everyone else at this board, I am sorry for the outburst........ Some of us do not have the thick skin. Some of us are all about being sensitive. That is one of the things that makes a compasionate doctor, and I will not change my ethics or morals for anyone. I will miss drb's thoughtful posts and insights and I think this board has lost a good friend. I am done with this matter.....

To the good doctors I would add that for every "regular" poster on this forum, there are dozens of newbies and others lurking around, reading threads and sometimes even posting their own questions. In my mind, this forum is primarily about them--helping them understand their condition, how important treatment is, and how to achieve better treatment.

Let's face it: compliance is extraordinarily difficult for untold hundreds of thousands of diagnosed OSA suffers. I consider this forum to be one of the best ways for patients to get advice, share experiences, find answers and moral support--perhaps even some hope. It's too bad that so much time and effort has been devoted lately to personal confrontations and collateral issues.

DrB and Tumbleweed, I believe that you two in particular are tremendous resources to the hundreds of people lurking around these threads who are not actively involved but are looking for answers, help, understanding, compassion, and hope. Please do not forget those people as you think about your future involvement on this forum. It would be a tremendous loss for you to feel wary of staying involved!

[Alisha]

Tumbleweed, you say:

Some of us do not have the thick skin. Some of us are all about being sensitive.

Thank you for your honesty. drbandage would never admit to this (or if he did, I didn't read it). While both of you may be fine doctors and your knowledge and training can contribute much to the forum, it seems being overly sensitive (IMHO) to others' experience/opinions of the medical community in general is a stumbling block to you and you take it VERY personally.

The above quote continued: "Some of us are all about being sensitive. That is one of the things that makes a compasionate doctor, and I will not change my ethics or morals for anyone."

As I see it, these are two unrelated characteristics. I can be sensitive and compassionate to my friends, family, co-workers, and strangers without being overly sensitive to or taking personally what others might say. I also don't think you would have to change your ethics or morals in order to not take NightHawkeye's postings too personally. He never used your name when he referred to doctors nor did he ever use the term "all doctors," that I can remember.

You also say: "NHE..... it was you who was the cause of my shutting down, just as you have now done to drbandage."

I am truly sorry you feel this way and hope you will keep posting. As for drbandage nobody has "now done to drbandage." It is my sincere belief that he left the forum because, despite voluminous, verbose postings, lamblasting NightHawkeye, he could not get a majority of forum members on his side.

As Rabid1 so succinctly put it, " He took his ball and went home when the members of this forum wouldn't play by his rules."

drbandage's early postings indeed contributed good things to the forum, but when he just couldn't let go of his disdain for NightHawkeye, his posts quickly deteriorated. I pray he can let go and come back to the forum without displaying hostility toward NightHawkeye or anyone else whose views he does not like.

Regards,

Alisha

[blarg]

I just wanted to note that DrB was checking his PMs a few days ago. If you'd like to chime in a friendly word, I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

[bookwrm63]

Tumbleweed, you say:

I also don't think you would have to change your ethics or morals in order to not take NightHawkeye's postings too personally. He never used your name when he referred to doctors nor did he ever use the term "all doctors," that I can remember.

Actually Alisha, he may be referring to the quote from NHE below that appeared on another thread:

“I suppose that's because finding flaws with medical practice these days is like picking low hanging fruit. There's just so much to pick from

or maybe this one

When companies in my industry don't add value to their products, they soon find themselves out of business. Why does that not happen in the medical community where examples of inefficiency, laziness and corruption abound?

Could be another (there were many) but it would be really time consuming to go back to each thread where NHE followed Drbandage. Those were probably the ones that stood out to Tumbleweed and Drbandage. So I'm guessing that's why they are upset. IMHO of course.

Mary

[Linda3032]

Well, I purposely haven't added my 2 cents, but guess I will jump in.

This thread appears to be leading towards a "pick-a-side" debate -- very similar to the Poll DrB started. And I hate to see that.

I found one person to be extremely boring, and full-of-himself, and I tended to skip over his posts. And one person to be extremely helpful to everyone unless antagonized.

But there is certainly room on this forum for both personalities, and I would hate either one of them to leave. It shouldn't come down to picking one over the other, or making a big deal over their decisions.

[Alisha]

Mary, I worked for state government for 17 years and things like

where examples of inefficiency, laziness and corruption abound

are very often said about government employees. Many of the citizens of the state say they are paying our salaries with their taxes, not realizing we are also helping pay our own salaries since we pay taxes, too. They say our salaries are too high and we get too many holidays.

I worked for what used to be called the "welfare agency," so we got an abundance of criticism. We gave financial assistance to people who should just "get a job." If we left children with their parents and the children were later hurt, we should have foreseen the danger and removed the children. If we removed children from the home, we were taking them away from their rightful place in the home. And on and on and on.

I can admit that I believe there is indeed some "inefficiency, laziness and corruption" in our state's government. I also know there are many dedicated, compassionate, overworked, underpaid state employees. And I do not take what many of the citizens of this state think and say about state government employees personally. This is a free country and they are free to voice their thoughts and opinions about us. Even though the media sometimes reports events way out of proportion, I still believe in the freedom of the press.

I am not trying to compare state government employees to doctors. What I am trying to say is that each of us can determine in our own hearts that being too defensive can sometimes only make matters worse.

I do hope the doctors will share their training and years of experience treating patients and continue to contribute to this forum. We need their knowledge and experience. We do not need lengthy posts filled with sarcasm and hostility.

I am not "taking sides." Both NightHawkeye and the doctors are entitled to their opinions, but if anyone wants to resort to pummeling, I sincerely hope they will do this in pm's. We come to this forum for help and encouragement and many, especially newbies, are in too bad a shape to have to go through posts to weed out squabbling which won't help them but will probably make them feel worse.

Regards,

Alisha

[bookwrm63]

Alisha,

I most certainly agree! I believe that in whatever industry, business, etc..there are always going to be people who have a problem with them.

I was just pointing out that comments were made regarding all doctors (i.e. medical community) and that's what I think the docs were referring to. I also hope that both stay to add both their expertise as doctors and as apnea patients.

Mary

[neversleeps]

Speaking of doctors, I'd suggest we all take time out to direct our attention to drbandage's extremely helpful, "Are You Sleeping with the Enemy?"

http://www.pur-sleep.com./uploads/SleepingEnemy.pdf

It is now National Sleep Awareness Week, March 5-11.

Make some copies and spread the word. We can make a difference!!

Thanks, DrB, wherever you are!

[-SWS]

Speaking of doctors, I'd suggest we all take time out to direct our attention to drbandage's extremely helpful, "Are You Sleeping with the Enemy?"

http://www.pur-sleep.com./uploads/SleepingEnemy.pdf

It is now National Sleep Awareness Week, March 5-11.

Make some copies and spread the word. We can make a difference!!

Thanks, DrB, wherever you are!

Quite honestly, Neversleeps... I thought the message of drbandage's about the medical community lacking screening-awareness was the single most important message I have ever read on an apnea board.

I truly hope people try to get the word out with whatever literature or methods they think is best. PLEASE JUST GET THE WORD OUT! .

[Elle]

Thank you for this link. I forwarded it to my brother in law who also has OSA. Good article. I hope we see DrB in the neighbourhood again soon.

[neversleeps]

Quite honestly, Neversleeps... I thought the message of drbandage's about the medical community lacking screening-awareness was the single most important message I have ever read on an apnea board.

Agreed! drbandage hit the nail on the head. SDB is under-considered and under-suspected. An educated and supportive medical community making appropriate recommendations for SDB screening could save countless lives and improve countless others.

[Vader]

Tumbleweed, you say:

Some of us do not have the thick skin. Some of us are all about being sensitive.

Thank you for your honesty. drbandage would never admit to this (or if he did, I didn't read it). While both of you may be fine doctors and your knowledge and training can contribute much to the forum, it seems being overly sensitive (IMHO) to others' experience/opinions of the medical community in general is a stumbling block to you and you take it VERY personally.

The above quote continued: "Some of us are all about being sensitive. That is one of the things that makes a compasionate doctor, and I will not change my ethics or morals for anyone."

As I see it, these are two unrelated characteristics. I can be sensitive and compassionate to my friends, family, co-workers, and strangers without being overly sensitive to or taking personally what others might say. I also don't think you would have to change your ethics or morals in order to not take NightHawkeye's postings too personally. He never used your name when he referred to doctors nor did he ever use the term "all doctors," that I can remember.

You also say: "NHE..... it was you who was the cause of my shutting down, just as you have now done to drbandage."

I am truly sorry you feel this way and hope you will keep posting. As for drbandage nobody has "now done to drbandage." It is my sincere belief that he left the forum because, despite voluminous, verbose postings, lamblasting NightHawkeye, he could not get a majority of forum members on his side.

As Rabid1 so succinctly put it, " He took his ball and went home when the members of this forum wouldn't play by his rules."

drbandage's early postings indeed contributed good things to the forum, but when he just couldn't let go of his disdain for NightHawkeye, his posts quickly deteriorated. I pray he can let go and come back to the forum without displaying hostility toward NightHawkeye or anyone else whose views he does not like.

Regards,

Alisha

Well said, Alisha.
I think it would be fine for him to come back, but it would be wise for him to knock off the self indulgent rants, and not attempt another coup d'état at this forum.

[bluegrassfan]

I also attend a forum on bluegrass music...hence my nickname. There is a lot of "discussion" and "opinions" on that forum. Sometimes they get out of hand. I'm new to this forum, but I read it several times a day, because I'm still having gasping espisodes at night, not able to sleep more than 45 mins at a time. So I read all the posts, realizing that all the answers don't pertain to me, but maybe I can get some good from some of them. When I see an argument forming or a clash of wills, I realize it's not about me, it's just those individuals, so I slide over it and go on to the next topic to try to glean some help. All of the individuals have been helpful to me so far, I don't think Tumbleweed has been involved in any of my two posts, but I welcome his opinion, and I'll take what I can use for me and what seems to work for me. I appreciate everyone's opinions, because it probably works for them. I think I'm going to get rid of this Optilife nasal mask, and go for a ComfortGel, which just fits over my nose. I haven't had 5 hrs sleep in 10 or 15 years and when I get it, I'm gonna yell! Good nite...bob