essential oils

[SleepGuy]

OK, I’m not big on aromas. Well, maybe the smell of a steak on the grill. (Bottle that!)

Somebody already did. It's called Liquid Smoke.....

[SleepGuy]

Unfortunately, the new oils (vanilla and tangerine-lime) have been delayed until next week. But they're coming, I promise.

[jrfoster]

Unfortunately, the new oils (vanilla and tangerine-lime) have been delayed until next week. But they're coming, I promise.

I really am looking forward to them! This is great stuff!

Jeff in Tn

[WIJim]

I caved in and ordered the starter set yesterday. I'll let everyone know how I like it when I receive it. Maybe I'll try a drop or two of liquid smoke.

[JeffH]

I caved in and ordered the starter set yesterday. I'll let everyone know how I like it when I receive it. Maybe I'll try a drop or two of liquid smoke.

That won't be rainout coming from your mask, but drool!


JeffH...LOL

[Guest]

Hi, it's me again, the Guest (not "hiding", just haven't gotten around to creating an account yet) who isn't against this aromatherapy idea, but wants to point out some possible long-term problems that people may want to consider.

I don't understand why you assert that people are exposed to more air on xPAP than without it.

I never said that.

To be sure, the air is pressurized but the total number of breaths a person takes in a night, and the total volume of air that enters and exits the lungs during any given night, would be the same with or without xPAP (apnea events aside).

Number of breaths? Total volume of air in a given night? I never said anything about these things, either.

Virtually all of the aromatic goes out of the machine with the other jetwash.

Except for the stuff you're inhaling for a third of your life and that ends up in your lungs, which is what I'm concerned about.

Using these products is not a whole lot different than placing a drop of lavender oil on your pillow at night without an xPAP.

I believe it's quite different. A drop of lavender on your pillow is not a mandatory, unavoidable, continuous source of vapors piped directly into your lungs the entire night. You can roll over on your other side, further from it, for example. You can turn the pillow over (I do that a lot in my sleep). It's not in a closed circuit aimed unavoidably and directly at your lungs, with no way to get clean air the entire night.

As for the safety of the aromatics at issue, I defer to the Food and Drug Administration. All of the oils used in these products are found on the list of essential oils the FDA considers are "generally recognized as safe" for human consumption. You can eat these oils.

Eating is not what's being proposed here, so the FDA's GRAS blessing doesn't directly apply to what we're discussing.

You can breathe them.

Yes, but the sticking point is, for what span of time? This is a third of your life, and in a closed circuit to your lungs. These oils are highly aromatic, meaning there's lots of chemicals in there getting thrown into the passing air that's aimed directly into your lungs, nonstop, for the equivalent of an entire eight-hour work shift, daily. Again, it's a third of your life! Most aromatherapy inhaling routines are a tiny fraction of this length of time, and aren't in a closed respiration circuit.

By training and vocation I am an environmental attorney and am well aware of the dangers and problems associated with human exposures to lead, radon, radium, asbestos (my step sister died of lung cancer at 29), radiation, benzene, toluene, arsenic, etc. I find it confusing that you would lump lavender essential oil in with such substances that are known to have negative health effects in humans.

I suspect there's not any research yet on the long-term effects of inhaling essential oil vapors in a closed respiration circuit for 2,920 hours per year. This is my concern. It may be harmless. But, it's very possible that it may not be. Nobody knows, at the moment.

If you believe that essential oils of lavender, orange, lime, clove, basil, marjoram, etc. have the potential to harm people, please address your comments to the FDA.

I just may. However, I doubt they'd be interested in a niche application that's presently this small, and even if they became super-interested and started testing this application tomorrow, the long-term effects won't be known for many years. This is why people should consider the idea carefully for themselves before making a decision.

If you supplied some additional information and support for your position perhaps they would reconsider their determination of human safety.

Because there's probably no research on this new type of usage of essential oils, all I can supply is the collection of reasoning I've stated thus far. Again, perhaps I will contact them. It'd be interesting to hear their opinion of this, regardless.

Someone else (Sleepy-eyes) said:

If the scents from flowers and herbs are dangerous, you might contact the Floral Shop Society of America and let them know they need to stop selling such dangerous flora!

Again, what's being proposed is *very* different from smelling flowers, or being briefly exposed to these vapors during traditional aromatherapy treatments. See above.

Ice cream and chocolate contain 100% FDA-approved ingredients and are considered generally safe for human consumption, and are harmless and even beneficial in some ways when consumed in moderation. However, countless people have eventually died from complications of obesity, partly caused by eating way too much ice cream and chocolate over the years. Should we call Hershey and Ben and Jerry and let them know they need to stop selling such a dangerous product? No, that's not a perfect analogy, but it gets the general idea across (things that are harmless with occasional brief use, and possibly harmful with daily long-duration use). Don't compare apples and oranges and merely say "nobody's been hurt by essential oils under current usage techniques, so nobody can EVER be hurt by them under ANY future usage techniques". Length of exposure time and the nature of the delivery all matter, and can make the difference between 'harmless' and 'harmful'.

All this having been said, I'm not against the product or the idea. I merely think that there MAY BE potential (not guaranteed!) long-term negative effects that will not be known definitively for years to come. However, if after thinking it over people want to try this, that's their choice. It may well be that the benefits outweigh the risks, perhaps even greatly, and there may be NO risks at all. My point is, nobody knows. People should weigh everything themselves, and decide.

[kavanaugh1950]

I'm still going to use them. works for me.

[SleepGuy]

All this having been said, I'm not against the product or the idea. I merely think that there MAY BE potential (not guaranteed!) long-term negative effects that will not be known definitively for years to come. However, if after thinking it over people want to try this, that's their choice. It may well be that the benefits outweigh the risks, perhaps even greatly, and there may be NO risks at all. My point is, nobody knows. People should weigh everything themselves, and decide.

Just a few thoughts:

The FDA's designation as being "safe" for human consumption includes many different applications besides aromatic use. Essential oils have been used for many, many years by massage therpaists where the oils are applied directly to the body, where they are absorbed into the body. They are also widely used as sources of natural flavorings and natural aromatics in foods.

For me, the benefits of increased CPAP compliance significantly outweigh any perceived risks. I went from using my CPAP maybe 4 nights a week for 4 hours a night to using it, quite literally, every night, all night, with gusto for the first time in 3 years. The risks associated with CPAP non-compliance are well-known, documented, and too many to list in great detail here but include such things as diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, depression, acid-reflux disease, stroke, on top of death (38,000+ people a year), utter exhaustion, and a really low quality of life day to day. I will gladly assume whatever perceived risks may be associated with using 2 drops of essential oils as compared with the known effects of not being able to use my equipment. For me there is no question where I come out on the issue.

[roster]

[quote="SleepGuy"]..............................

...................................................

For me, the benefits of increased CPAP compliance significantly outweigh any perceived risks. ...........................................................

[Stephanie in Boston]

I wonder how much of it is like Pavlov's dog?

My problem will probably be that when I smell those "good smells", I will think it is time to eat... not sleep.

Steve

Intersting comment ... does anyone know if you can satisfy cravings for certain foods simply by over-stimulating your sense of smell for those foods?

I have read the book "Mindless Eating" which is an awesome book and he talks about supermodle keeping candy bar wrappers because the smell can help satisfy there cravings. lol Not sure if it'd work for all of us.

[NightHawkeye]

What percent of cpap patients are compliant and getting a good therapy? It is certainly less than 50% and one sleep lab's survey showed only 13% of their patients were compliant. I am all for products that will increase the compliance rate.

Rooster, if you don't mind me asking, what is the source of the 13% compliance statistic you cite?

Regards,
Bill

[Sleepy-eyes]

Well, I'll add my 2 cents worth.

Pur-sleep is the only thing that has made my therapy pleasantly acceptable!!!!!!!!! And it started, not by coincidence, with the very first night I started using it! Don't know what else to say!

[roster]

[quote="NightHawkeye"]Rooster, if you don't mind me asking, what is the source of the 13% compliance statistic you cite?

Regards,
Bill

[NightHawkeye]

Thanks, Rooster. Even for a skeptic like me, 13% compliance sounded awfully low. However, 87% compliance seems like it should be achievable from a good sleep lab.

On the other hand, since the average compliance is below 50%, then basic statistics requires that the performance from some sleep labs be considerably less than that in order to offset the high performance from some of the good sleep labs. Maybe 13% compliance from the bad labs is not really too far off the mark.

Regards,
Bill

[roster]

NightHawkeye,

The problem I have with many compliance studies is they consider greater than or equal to four hours per night as compliant. I know I am a wreck when I don't consistently get seven or more hours.

rooster