In the UK....Seeking advice on whether or not to pursue CPAP

[Pugsy]

APAP pressure settings are the most popular for good reasons.

Another educated opinion on APAP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZCByiG1nU

"Educated" doesn't make it the gospel and Jason certainly doesn't walk on water.
There are some very valid reasons why auto adjusting pressures may work better but some people just can't seem to understand that...and being "educated" doesn't seem to change that fact.
Jason also doesn't like EPR (because it can trigger central apneas in a very small percentage of people who use it) and that's just plain idiotic.

People need to learn and understand what works well for THEM and not necessarily some educated opinion on the internet.
Not everyone's needs are the same and one size doesn't fit all.
They need to form their own "educated" opinions based on their own personal experience.

BTW folks....I got an educated opinion myself and so does CG and any others who happen to differ with Jason's (or Nicko's) opinions. Our opinions are just as valid.
There is a substantial difference in my own pressure needs during REM when compared to non REM....Like 6 to 8 cm more in REM and I don't think I want to be using 8 cm more (puts me in the mid to upper teens in terms of pressures) just because a sleep tech thinks "fixed" pressures is the ultimate way to go. It isn't. Using 8 cm more ALL night long just to deal with the 20% of the time a person is in REM is just plain stupid IMHO. Why in the hell would I want to do that? Just because Jason or Nick says so???? Not going to happen.

People can try both ways and just see what works best for THEM and decide what to do or not do.

Let people educate themselves about THEIR own needs.

Yes fixed works better for some but auto adjusting works better for the other "some".

[ozij]

People can try both ways and just see what works best for THEM and decide what to do or not do.

Let people educate themselves about THEIR own needs.

Yes fixed works better for some but auto adjusting works better for the other "some".

Very well said!

[ChicagoGranny]

educated

When I first started using CPAP, I watched some of Jason's videos. It became apparent after a while that he was so opinionated, so biased, and so often wrong, that I quit watching him.

[Pugsy]

When I first started using CPAP, I watched some of Jason's videos. It became apparent after a while that he was so opinionated, so biased, and so often wrong, that I quit watching him.

Funny how if someone happens to agree with Jason they also happen to think Jason walks on water and speaks the gospel according to what they believe. Doesn't make them walk on water either but they won't admit it.

Jason is what I would call an "old stick in the mud" with outdated and often wrong ideas.....but he is entitled to have them and voice them.

I just wish people would take what anyone like that says with a grain of salt. There is a grain of truth in there but it is far from the gospel.

People need to learn to think for themselves but that takes some work and most people are just plain lazy.

[vandownbytheriver]

People need to learn to think for themselves but that takes some work and most people are just plain lazy.

I presented a different opinion. You attacked the source, 'ad-hominem', instead of the knowledge. Prove him wrong! I find for myself that a single pressure that solves my problems is best. The video explains his reasoning, attack it! Don't be lazy.

[ozij]

I find for myself that a single pressure that solves my problems is best.

People need to learn and understand what works well for THEM

Not everyone's needs are the same and one size doesn't fit all.

Automatic algorithms work great for some breathing patterns, not so good at all for others.
If - as in Pugsy's case, the algorithm responds properly and raises the pressure only when necessary not waking the sleeper, then APAP is the way to go.
In other cases - and I happen to be a case in point - the algorithm does not identify my breathing properly, and does not respond appropriately.

Using a data capable machine and tracking your results, the quality of your sleep and the quality of your wake time are the tools you need to find out what works best for you. What is good for the majority is not necessarily good for the single case - no matter how rare that single case is.

[ChicagoGranny]

I find for myself that a single pressure that solves my problems is best.

You and Jason have the same problem. You erroneously think that whatever works for you works for all others.

As far as Jason's video, all he demonstrates is that his minimum pressure is too low.

[Pugsy]

Prove him wrong!

Not my job. I am not the one who thinks he walks on water. More like your job to prove it since that is what you think.

Besides I never said he was wrong as all I said was that he was "outdated" in his thinking but he gets to think that way (along with others) and for some people his way might be the "best" way for some people....it's just not always the "best" way for everyone.

That's my problem with the one size fits all approach.....it doesn't allow for variables that might crop up.
People need to educate themselves on what works best for THEM and not necessarily what works best for you or me or Ozij or CG or anyone else.

I hate to burst your bubble but old school isn't necessarily the best school for the entire cpap user population of the world.

Offer your opinion and then move on since you seem to be incapable of offering both sides' opinions.

We have been having the fixed vs auto adjusting pressure war here on the forum at least as long as I have been here.
It won't ever end and no one will ever win that war.

Blood letting used to be the cure all for everything.....doesn't make it right but in some situations it is still indicated.

[Dog Slobber]

Prove him wrong!

Sure:

• He states he typically needs a pressure of 12cm (on his side). He then did his "experiment" on his back, where he claims he typically needs more pressure. He then configures APAP mode to a minimum of 8cm. At least 4 centimeters less than he knows he needs.
  It is commonly understood that in Auto mode, the minimum pressure needs to be close to your typical pressure needs.
• He demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of Soft Mode and for For Her mode. Making the claim that Soft Response is basically, For Her mode, but with out the For Her label so dudes would use it. This is wrong. Yes, the default for For Her mode is Soft Mode, but there are other differences in the For Her algorithm. Specifically, For Her mode will not increase the pressure beyond 12cm because of apneas. He is conducting and "experiment" where he states his needs pressure probably at 13cm and he's using an algorithm that has some limitations that can cap it at 12cm.
• He introduced a major change to his sleep ritual, not using the v-com. Something that he has stated multiple times is important to good quality sleep. But, didn't give time for his body to adjust.
• He did one night on each setting. This demonstrates a complete ignorance of sample size and variability of sleep from night to night.
• He demonstrates ignorance of the ResMed algorithm. It is well understood, that the algorithm alwqays attempts to return to minimum. (the exception potetntialy being the For Her algorithm, which can establish a new baseline minimum.
• His ignorance of the For Her algorithm is irresponsible, given it's been available since the S9 for Her and is well documented in the Clinician manual.
• His ignorance of the Standard/Soft response and deducing that; it is just For Her in disguise, is also ignorant and well documented in the clinician manuals.
• Where is his video on a properly configured APAP? Almost always when somebody asks for therapy configuration, they are advised to increase the minimum. Jason, absolutely should not be unaware of this.

But, I'm guessing you're not really interested in anyone proving him wrong.

[vandownbytheriver]

I find for myself that a single pressure that solves my problems is best.

You and Jason have the same problem. You erroneously think that whatever works for you works for all others.

As far as Jason's video, all he demonstrates is that his minimum pressure is too low.

Isn't that the point? Setting an APAP range is waiting for problems. Didn't you just recommend (after I'd told them to set min to 7) a range of 7-20cm? Why would you do that? Nobody needs 20cm when starting out... just a recipe for disaster.

[vandownbytheriver]

Prove him wrong!

Offer your opinion and then move on since you seem to be incapable of offering both sides' opinions.

Yeah... I did that. Got attacked for it. Why offer something that has not worked for me, that I don't believe in? What makes you think that's a goal, to 'both sides' everything? I'm supposed to hold two contrary opinions?

[Respirator99]

Isn't that the point? Setting an APAP range is waiting for problems. Didn't you just recommend (after I'd told them to set min to 7) a range of 7-20cm? Why would you do that? Nobody needs 20cm when starting out... just a recipe for disaster.

Why do you say that? In what way is APAP "waiting for problems"? Many people are treated best by a variable pressure - that's why they were invented! As for "nobody needs 20cm when starting out" - well some people do. In any case the machine will only go as high as it needs to. The fact it can go to 20 doesn't mean it will go to 20.

[vandownbytheriver]

Isn't that the point? Setting an APAP range is waiting for problems. Didn't you just recommend (after I'd told them to set min to 7) a range of 7-20cm? Why would you do that? Nobody needs 20cm when starting out... just a recipe for disaster.

Why do you say that? In what way is APAP "waiting for problems"?

That is how APAP works... do you not understand how it works? Pressure is increased by FL's, OA's, H's, and Snore. You have to have those happen to increase the pressure, in effect 'waiting for problems'. Is that not clear?

Many people are treated best by a variable pressure - that's why they were invented! As for "nobody needs 20cm when starting out" - well some people do. In any case the machine will only go as high as it needs to. The fact it can go to 20 doesn't mean it will go to 20.

I've seen the machine make mistakes. If the machine makes mistakes it can apply the wrong pressure. The OP decided to set 4-15 as a range... I suggested 7-15. CG wanted 7-20. You tell *me* how that's better please.

[ChicagoGranny]

I've seen the machine make mistakes. If the machine makes mistakes it can apply the wrong pressure. The OP decided to set 4-15 as a range... I suggested 7-15. CG wanted 7-20. You tell *me* how that's better please.

The machine will not go any higher than needed. Given how much advice you dole out, it's surprising that you don't know that.

[vandownbytheriver]

I've seen the machine make mistakes. If the machine makes mistakes it can apply the wrong pressure. The OP decided to set 4-15 as a range... I suggested 7-15. CG wanted 7-20. You tell *me* how that's better please.

The machine will not go any higher than needed. Given how much advice you dole out, it's surprising that you don't know that.

I happen to know that leaving the machine at 20cm max is not good... I do know that much.

Is that the problem? I'm 'sniping' your newbies, and you (and Pugs) resent that? So be it.