Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Tec5
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:32 am

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Tec5 » Fri May 06, 2022 5:42 pm

Thank you Pugsey,
It seems that you read and understood my last post relating my experience with the reaction time for my Resmed machine.
You gave a lot of detail and explanation in your reply, and if I can be so bold I would summarize your comments with two words:
It depends

Lots of factors, and as you have said repeatedly (again paraphrasing) 'nothing hard and fast, very little cast in concrete'.

Perhaps that's why dataql (a week ago) questioned PR's apparent global, universal statement that 4-20 is stupid.

And thank you for your politeness and attention.
I am neither a physician nor a lawyer, so DO NOT rely on me for professional medical or legal advice.

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Pugsy » Fri May 06, 2022 7:27 pm

Tec5 wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 5:42 pm
Thank you Pugsey,
It seems that you read and understood my last post relating my experience with the reaction time for my Resmed machine.
You gave a lot of detail and explanation in your reply, and if I can be so bold I would summarize your comments with two words:
It depends

Lots of factors, and as you have said repeatedly (again paraphrasing) 'nothing hard and fast, very little cast in concrete'.

Perhaps that's why dataql (a week ago) questioned PR's apparent global, universal statement that 4-20 is stupid.

And thank you for your politeness and attention.
Yes...the only hard fast rule when it comes to cpap is there are no hard fast rules.
"It depends" is something that probably goes with every statement said relating to most things apnea related or therapy related.

PR really does believe that 4 - 20 is stupid for most people. He is quick to offer his opinion. That's just how he is and he is certainly entitled to his opinion and he is free to voice his opinion here however he wishes to voice it.
To be honest...I tend to feel the same way about that setting because most of our experience here isn't because the doctor was wanting to offer a workable pressure setting but instead the doctor or DME hadn't done their homework or understands actually how auto adjusting mode actually works in terms of optimal settings for someone.

If you go back and re-read what I said quite a while back it's the same thing I said here
So the setting of 4 cm minimum starting point might work out okay if someone only needs 7 or 8 cm to hold the airway open optimally....it's going to fail miserably if there happens to be a need for 14 cm pressure to hold the airway open and prevent the collapses.
Apparently you are one of those people that the 4 to 20 works just fine and the machine probably never even goes near 10 cm. I am happy it works for you especially since you have a problem with aerophagia with higher pressures. You are very lucky. The majority of cpap users out there aren't so lucky.

To be fair when you went off on both of us wanting "proof" or "reason for stupid"....your tone wasn't very conducive to either one of us wanting to go into depth explaining our reasoning behind our opinions. I saw a whole lot of attitude and not much real desire to learn. Maybe or maybe not...that wasn't your intention but that's what we saw and from the lack of other people responding to you...I am feeling others felt the same by the lack of response from people I know could have given the same speech I gave above.

You hijacked (again) someone else's thread instead of starting your own to discuss your particular situation. Again...not a good thing to do when "asking" for clarification of something or help. It's considered poor etiquette and plain rude and then you got ruder. Shouting and being a general PITA. Again continuing to hijack someone else's thread.
Let me tell you....that was one of the things that really annoys me...seeing someone getting their thread hijacked.

I finally decided that I wanted no more hijacking and the only way to stop it was give you the best answer I had...it depends. Plus others reading it will likely take away a bit more understanding how auto adjusting works.

The OP in this thread does happen to be one of those people who a setting of 4 - 20 is stupid and lazy way of doing things by either his doc or DME or both. He's a veteran cpap user who already has been using a minimum of 10 for years. He knows what his body needs from past reports and what he saw (and felt) with the factory default settings. I suspect that the DME just got lazy and left the machine at the factory defaults because the doc didn't specify anything else and no one thought to maybe ask the patient what the past settings were...that's the lazy part.
It could have been harmful to the OP if he hadn't realized what the problem was and fixed it himself.

So is the setting of 4 - 20 stupid or potentially harmful....it depends....it can be either or it can be perfect for someone.
It all depends on a lot of variables.

I suspect that if you had a couple of OAs happen that your machine will respond rather quickly because you are also having a rather active FL graph. It's not horribly horrible but it is fairly active....and your machine will twiddle its little thumbs DURING the apnea events but as soon as the event has passed the machine will probably respond fairly quickly but more because of the FLs than any OAs.

My situation is entirely different...I don't have much activity at all on my FL graph...I just have never had much FL reporting.
To give you an idea how boring my FL graph is. Compare it with yours. I also don't have any nasal congestion to confuse the machine into thinking I am having FLs.

I don't have FLs driving my pressure at all and my machine doesn't respond quickly at all to OAs or hyponeas unless I have more than one or two in a really close time span. For one OA that is random and rare...my machine won't do a thing.
But it doesn't really need to do something just to prevent something that is already random and rare and was brief and didn't disturb my sleep.

Image

If you are having much nasal congestion that might explain that activity on your FL graph...and the poor machine will still try to kill it with more pressure but more pressure won't fix FL graph activity that is related to nasal congestion. It doesn't know that though...all it knows is the air flow is reduced and usually that is a warning sign that the airway is trying to collapse and its job is to stop the collapse....hence the more rapid response to FLs in your pressure graph.

I don't know if you have any nasal issues or not but I mention it because if you do...and your problem with aerophagia the machine might be wanting to kill something with more pressure that more pressure won't kill...but more pressure could very well open the door for the aerophagia monster to come calling. So if that is the case...in your situation I would limit the maximum as well if the machine is going to where the aerophagia monster finds the door open.

Nasal congestion ugly FL graphs...we have to treat the congestion with the usual methods...OTC decongestants, nasal rinses or whatever works for the person.

That's my freebie unsolicited advice about what I saw on the FL graph you posted. I don't remember if you have ever said anything about nasal congestion and if nasal issues aren't the reason for the activity on the FL graph...just file what I have said for the next time you get a cold or flu and do have some real congestion going on. Your machine will still try to kill it and most likely not only will you be miserable with the cold...you will have a bad belly ache as well.

So to conclude this sermon....I am climbing down off my soapbox.
Should you have further questions about your settings or results PLEASE start a thread of your own and accept the fact that a good chunk of any answer anyone will give will be ....It depends. :lol:
The more information we have the less "it depends" you will see but you will always see some.

This goes for any other newbies reading this...please don't just plop a report in front of us without any history or background information and expect a decisive answer. We don't have any crystal balls here and all you will get is magic 8 ball answers.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

Tec5
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:32 am

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Tec5 » Fri May 06, 2022 9:35 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 7:27 pm
I do have a question that is not related to the original topic, but is a request for clarification of something that you just discussed - nasal congestion. Do I start a new topic to ask for that clarification?

Other than that I'll just remind you that I'm not the one launching personal attacks or name calling,

Yes, 4-20 works fine for me, As it does for my wife and two brothers and a couple of cousins. The only exception is one cousin who uses 6-20 so that she can benefit from a 2cm EPR.
I am neither a physician nor a lawyer, so DO NOT rely on me for professional medical or legal advice.

User avatar
zonker
Posts: 11012
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by zonker » Fri May 06, 2022 9:50 pm

Tec5 wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 9:35 pm
Do I start a new topic to ask for that clarification?

PLEASE for the love of heaven, start your own thread.

viewtopic/t172378/Sticky--Newbies-PLEAS ... STING.html
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
Oscar-Win
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1-Win64.exe
Oscar-Mac
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1.dmg

dataq1
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:09 am
Location: Northeast Ohio

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by dataq1 » Fri May 06, 2022 10:19 pm

As I am the one that apparently initiated this bruhaha viewtopic/t184286/Switched-from-PR-Syst ... l#p1410807 by asking PR to explain why he said something was stupid,

perhaps after, Pugsey's reply to tech5 viewtopic/t184286/Switched-from-PR-Syst ... l#p1410807 where she said :
So is the setting of 4 - 20 stupid or potentially harmful....it depends....it can be either or it can be perfect for someone. It all depends on a lot of variables.
That is exactly where I was headed a week ago - perhaps our experts and contributors need refrain from making absolute-type and all encompassing pronouncements.

Instead of taking a attitude of ' it so, because I said it's so', just acknowledge that there are very few absolutes and ...
" that's my opinion but your mileage (or conditions) may vary."
"THE INFORMATION PROVIDED ON CPAPTALK.COM IS NOT INTENDED NOR RECOMMENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE."

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Pugsy » Fri May 06, 2022 10:25 pm

Yes, please start a new topic/thread of your own. I did bring up nasal congestion but lets not take this thread any further off topic than it has already gone.

Did your mother ever tell you "do as I say and not as I do".....well I am everyone's "mother" here.

You will find that I often go off on side rails....everyone who knows me understands it is just how I am just like PR is the way he is or Zonker is the way he is or anyone else. When I do it is usually an educational moment and what I say can often be useful to other people....or at least that's how I rationalize my tangents.

I get to do that....that's the only compensation I get for being moderator here and trying to put out fires before they destroy the entire forest.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Pugsy » Fri May 06, 2022 10:33 pm

dataq1 wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 10:19 pm
That is exactly where I was headed a week ago - perhaps our experts and contributors need refrain from making absolute-type and all encompassing pronouncements.

Instead of taking a attitude of ' it so, because I said it's so', just acknowledge that there are very few absolutes and ...
" that's my opinion but your mileage (or conditions) may vary."
Did you miss the part above where I said people get to voice their opinions however they wished to voice them.
You and I have had this discussion before so let's not rehash things.

You don't get to dictate what someone else thinks, says or how they say it. Maybe you should stick to worrying about what you say more and less about what someone else says or how they say it.
Just my opinion......

If someone wants to state something as an absolute ....that's their right to speak anyway they wish.
I am sure they have a good reason for feeling strongly about whatever it is and they don't want to go down the wishy washy road. That's their right.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

User avatar
Dog Slobber
Posts: 3954
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:05 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Dog Slobber » Sat May 07, 2022 6:42 am

IAF wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 9:35 pm
Other than that I'll just remind you that I'm not the one launching personal attacks or name calling,
The *very first* disparaging (personal attack) post in this topic, was made by you towards palerider because although he answered many of your questions, he did not answer why he thought 4-20 is stupid, to your satisfaction.
IAF wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 9:08 am
palerider wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 9:14 pm
Scenerio:
ChrisD: "Doc, Palerider says that your prescription / recommendation of 4-20 is stupid and that I should be wary of you"
Doc: "Why is it "stupid""
ChrisD: "I don't know"
Doc" "WTF"

So why is it a stupid ?
Last edited by Dog Slobber on Sat May 07, 2022 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dog Slobber
Posts: 3954
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:05 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Dog Slobber » Sat May 07, 2022 6:57 am

dataq1 wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 10:19 pm
That is exactly where I was headed a week ago - perhaps our experts and contributors need refrain from making absolute-type and all encompassing pronouncements.
All you do is run around here demanding that those who actually do support people that need help, do so using tone, language and responses suitable to your misguided demands.

palerider has made thousands upon thousands of posts, sometimes he provides explanation, other times he doesn't. Regarding, the 4-20 default, that topic has been well discussed numerous times, a simple search easily reveals why, for many, it is inappropriate.

Insisting that palerider spend a great of time further explaining his commentary, just places more demands on him. It is not up to you to dictate how he spends his time, especially for topics that he *has* discussed at length in the past, and is easily searchable.

When you have spent thousands of hours and posts actually providing useful and accurate information, you know actually helping people, then maybe you can start commenting on others instead of undermining them.

User avatar
Applecheeks
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:07 am

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Applecheeks » Sat May 07, 2022 7:03 am

Pugsy wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 10:33 pm
dataq1 wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 10:19 pm
That is exactly where I was headed a week ago - perhaps our experts and contributors need refrain from making absolute-type and all encompassing pronouncements.

Instead of taking a attitude of ' it so, because I said it's so', just acknowledge that there are very few absolutes and ...
" that's my opinion but your mileage (or conditions) may vary."
Did you miss the part above where I said people get to voice their opinions however they wished to voice them.
You and I have had this discussion before so let's not rehash things.

You don't get to dictate what someone else thinks, says or how they say it. Maybe you should stick to worrying about what you say more and less about what someone else says or how they say it.
Just my opinion......

If someone wants to state something as an absolute ....that's their right to speak anyway they wish.
I am sure they have a good reason for feeling strongly about whatever it is and they don't want to go down the wishy washy road. That's their right.
IMO what dataq is trying to say is that all of us should careful about using trigger words like stupid, moronic, idiot, troll, twit, gibberish, etc. Just try to be a bit more gracious and courteous to each other, particularly important if one is among the “leading lights” , one of the experts here.

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Pugsy » Sat May 07, 2022 7:27 am

Applecheeks wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 7:03 am
IMO what dataq is trying to say is that all of us should careful about using trigger words like stupid, moronic, idiot, troll, twit, gibberish, etc. Just try to be a bit more gracious and courteous to each other, particularly important if one is among the “leading lights” , one of the experts here.
IMHO that wasn't what dataq1 was saying. He wants everyone to say something to the effect YMMV kind of thing for every statement that they make. This isn't the first time he has tried to dictate how someone says something or offers an opinion.

I do wish people wouldn't be so quick with the trigger words you mentioned but when you continually poke a bear and wake him up... he usually is in a bad mood and ugly. It is very rare that the first response to anyone has been an ugly response with negative name calling adjectives that you mentioned.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

User avatar
Applecheeks
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:07 am

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Applecheeks » Sat May 07, 2022 9:00 am

Pugsy wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 7:27 am
Applecheeks wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 7:03 am
IMO what dataq is trying to say is that all of us should careful about using trigger words like stupid, moronic, idiot, troll, twit, gibberish, etc. Just try to be a bit more gracious and courteous to each other, particularly important if one is among the “leading lights” , one of the experts here.

Well that didn't take long. See the exchange at viewtopic/t184324/ResMed-Airsense-10-co ... ation.html
dataq said this: viewtopic/t184324/ResMed-Airsense-10-co ... l#p1411235
Which seems to me to be informative and fairly innocuous
Then, DogS viewtopic/t184324/ResMed-Airsense-10-co ... l#p1411238
writes this
Dogslobber writes:
ignore dataq1 he insists forum members must not disagree with doctors
That, IMO is a deliberate provocation, poking data to personally defend himself on something that is not remotely on-topic.

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Pugsy » Sat May 07, 2022 9:20 am

Back on topic please folks.

No more "discussion" about what someone says or how someone says it. I am tired of it.

And in case anyone has forgotten the topic is NOT about what someone says or how they say it or what they meant.

I see through all the snide comments and they MUST STOP NOW.

Agree to disagree and move on to something else. This dead horse has been beaten to death so many times here on the forum I am sick of it.

Quite honestly the original topic questions have been asked and answered sufficiently and the topic has derailed significantly to another "he said so and so and was hateful" to the point that this thread is really no longer helpful and probably should be locked and allowed to fade into the archives. If you guys and gals don't cease and desist ....that's a very probable outcome here.

Final warning. Clear and concise. One more off topic comment and there will be no more comments. That's a promise.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

kkwitter
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 31, 2022 8:48 am

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by kkwitter » Tue May 31, 2022 8:59 am

Hi,
I just switched from AirSense 10 to AirSense 11 Autoset using the same Airfit P10 nasal pillows, and all of a sudden MyAir (I have no SD card) is reporting leaks above 25 and saying I have to check my mask fit -(it's fine), when the Airsense 10 had leaks around 10. I've tried the AirSense11 for 2 nights - night 1 at the same CPAP 8 pressure of my Airsense 10, and night 2 with the Autoset for Her, which reported a pressure of 10.4. The screen on the Airsense 11 machine says "great mask fit" for both nights - so I am wondering whether I should just ignore the MyAir warnings. The P10 manual says acceptable leaks for my pressure range are over 20, so I am confused about the disagreement in the MyAir report from the 2 machines. Thanks for any insight!

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Switched from PR System1 to ResMed AirSense 11 Autoset

Post by Pugsy » Tue May 31, 2022 9:15 am

kkwitter wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 8:59 am
Hi,
I just switched from AirSense 10 to AirSense 11 Autoset using the same Airfit P10 nasal pillows, and all of a sudden MyAir (I have no SD card) is reporting leaks above 25 and saying I have to check my mask fit -(it's fine), when the Airsense 10 had leaks around 10. I've tried the AirSense11 for 2 nights - night 1 at the same CPAP 8 pressure of my Airsense 10, and night 2 with the Autoset for Her, which reported a pressure of 10.4. The screen on the Airsense 11 machine says "great mask fit" for both nights - so I am wondering whether I should just ignore the MyAir warnings. The P10 manual says acceptable leaks for my pressure range are over 20, so I am confused about the disagreement in the MyAir report from the 2 machines. Thanks for any insight!
Leaks can vary widely from night to night anyway.

Use OSCAR to see exactly what is going on with leaks.
OSCAR https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... stallation
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... rpretation
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... ganization organize and how to do screen shots.
wiki/index.php/Oscar:organize Wiki

http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1585 ... eview.html
kkwitter wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 8:59 am
so I am wondering whether I should just ignore the MyAir warnings.

Exactly what are the warnings saying?

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.