OT: Quarantine supplies

[Midwest_non_sleeper]

On a sidenote, regarding the immunity question: A test was conducted with Rhesus monkeys. The scientists infected several monkeys with Covid-19, and kept another group as an uninfected control group. The infected monkeys got sick, exhibited all of the symptoms that humans seem to suffer, and then got better. They then infected ALL of the monkeys, including the original infected monkeys as well as the control group. The previously infected monkeys did get reinfected, however, it only manifested as a very brief rise in temperature that quickly broke and they exhibited no other symptoms. Meanwhile, the control group got very sick. A month later, all of the monkeys tested positive for antibodies against Covid-19.

This test lends credibility to the idea that Covid-19 acts similar to any other virus when it comes to human immunity, your body will very likely develop antibodies that will provide some level of protection from a subsequent infection. This does not, of course, mean that a different mutated strain could not cause havoc though.

do you have the source for this?

https://www.livescience.com/monkeys-can ... study.html

Actual study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... ticle-info

Granted, it was a small study, and from China - although I find no reason to disbelieve it. SARS-CoV-2 does not appear to be a super-secret-bioengineered-weapon-with-supernatural-abilities. Everything seems to point that it is a normal Coronavirus that behaves just like...a normal Coronavirus. That means that infection results in antibodies that likely prohibit or offer protection to reinfection - at least, to the same strain.

Also, I was apparently wrong in my initial assessment:

The team introduced SARS-CoV-2 into the throats of four adult macaques and closely monitored the animals' symptoms and vital signs. The team collected swab samples from the animals' noses, throats and anuses to track the changing concentration of the virus throughout the body. The team also euthanized and took tissue samples from one monkey seven days after infection to analyze the viral load in various organs.

Though, it doesn't change the outcome.

[Midwest_non_sleeper]

Pugsy, you misunderstand. I didn't say that because I choose not to get us tested, I say that simply because we do not fit the criteria to be tested.

Sorry, I did misunderstand. I thought you were referring to the antibody test and not the current diagnostic test to see if you have it or not.
Even if my illness hadn't happened in late Feb when there was no testing at all...and it happened today...I wouldn't meet criteria to get a test as it stands right now. I wasn't sick enough and hadn't been around anyone I knew who had it.

It won't be long though before a lot more people like us who weren't sick enough can get tested though...and just watch the number of positives sky rocket when that testing becomes available.
Right now too many really sick people and not enough test kits available but eventually that will change as far as testing capabilities catch up to need.

Correct. We're actually ramping up our testing to a very large degree. We have now tested more people than any other country. Hell, New York alone has now tested more people than most other countries. Confirmed cases will naturally skyrocket, but that will also serve to bring the mortality rate down as the more people you test, the more mild cases you wrap up in the system. I don't think it would be possible to test every person in the country, you're talking about in excess of 300 million people, but we can certainly test as many as possible. Also, our testing capabilities are constantly being expanded. They're now talking about test kits that you do at home and then send in. They're also talking about testing methods that produce an accurate result in a matter of minutes.

The previous way of testing was done with PCR - Polymerase chain reaction, but they're moving into more substantial territory now.

[Julie]

Well with all the science going on at such high standards, isn't it time they came up with models to mimic human (animal) physiology that doesn't depend on whether 'the rabbit died'?

They're worried about mountain gorillas getting Covid from people, but continuing to 'sacrifice' innumerable other primates (and others) to find answers... why doesn't this make a lot of sense?

In 2020?

Who decided we're more important than they are - who never made guns to kill each other (though they do fight on occasion), who don't routinely slaughter whole tribes of 'lesser' animals so we can go to McDonald's?

Am I boring you?

[Midwest_non_sleeper]

Well with all the science going on at such high standards, isn't it time they came up with models to mimic human (animal) physiology that doesn't depend on whether 'the rabbit died'?

They're worried about mountain gorillas getting Covid from people, but continuing to 'sacrifice' innumerable other primates (and others) to find answers... why doesn't this make a lot of sense?

In 2020?

Probably because you can't grow a biologically accurate sample in a lab? Primates are the next best thing to assist in determining the pathology of something in humans, because we share a very large set of DNA with them (23 vs 24). Chimpanzees share a whopping 99% of their DNA with us, that's awfully close, and is a good test bed for pathological specimen. Granted, it can seem inhumane, but the only other option would be to test on actual humans. You go first, I'm right behind you, promise.

It almost seems that you're ok with humans dying for scientific purposes, but are upset that we use primates for the purpose of saving human lives. That is an ethical minefield, to be sure, but I posit a simple thought experiment for you:

There is a human being that you don't know hanging from a chain over a pit of lava. There is also a chimpanzee hanging over another pit. You can choose to save one, but the other dies. Which do you choose?

[Julie]

Point taken - sort of - because whether or not you believe it/me, I don't think we're superior to other species, just luckier (if you see it as luck, which I'm not at all sure of and wonder how we might be judged by others 3 million yrs from now).

[palerider]

Well with all the science going on at such high standards, isn't it time they came up with models to mimic human (animal) physiology that doesn't depend on whether 'the rabbit died'?

They're worried about mountain gorillas getting Covid from people, but continuing to 'sacrifice' innumerable other primates (and others) to find answers... why doesn't this make a lot of sense?

In 2020?

Probably because you can't grow a biologically accurate sample in a lab? Primates are the next best thing to assist in determining the pathology of something in humans, because we share a very large set of DNA with them (23 vs 24). Chimpanzees share a whopping 99% of their DNA with us, that's awfully close, and is a good test bed for pathological specimen. Granted, it can seem inhumane, but the only other option would be to test on actual humans. You go first, I'm right behind you, promise.

It almost seems that you're ok with humans dying for scientific purposes, but are upset that we use primates for the purpose of saving human lives. That is an ethical minefield, to be sure, but I posit a simple thought experiment for you:

There is a human being that you don't know hanging from a chain over a pit of lava. There is also a chimpanzee hanging over another pit. You can choose to save one, but the other dies. Which do you choose?

The other aspect of this is because there are so many variables that not even the most powerful computers can 'model' everything that needs to be modeled.

[Mr. Snorestoomuch]

We value humans more than we value other animals. Plants, too.

Which is sad, when you see how little we value many humans.

[zonker]

https://www.livescience.com/monkeys-can ... study.html

Actual study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... ticle-info

Granted, it was a small study, and from China - although I find no reason to disbelieve it. SARS-CoV-2 does not appear to be a super-secret-bioengineered-weapon-with-supernatural-abilities. Everything seems to point that it is a normal Coronavirus that behaves just like...a normal Coronavirus. That means that infection results in antibodies that likely prohibit or offer protection to reinfection - at least, to the same strain.

Also, I was apparently wrong in my initial assessment:

The team introduced SARS-CoV-2 into the throats of four adult macaques and closely monitored the animals' symptoms and vital signs. The team collected swab samples from the animals' noses, throats and anuses to track the changing concentration of the virus throughout the body. The team also euthanized and took tissue samples from one monkey seven days after infection to analyze the viral load in various organs.

Though, it doesn't change the outcome.

thank you!

[Midwest_non_sleeper]

https://www.livescience.com/monkeys-can ... study.html

Actual study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... ticle-info

Granted, it was a small study, and from China - although I find no reason to disbelieve it. SARS-CoV-2 does not appear to be a super-secret-bioengineered-weapon-with-supernatural-abilities. Everything seems to point that it is a normal Coronavirus that behaves just like...a normal Coronavirus. That means that infection results in antibodies that likely prohibit or offer protection to reinfection - at least, to the same strain.

Also, I was apparently wrong in my initial assessment:

The team introduced SARS-CoV-2 into the throats of four adult macaques and closely monitored the animals' symptoms and vital signs. The team collected swab samples from the animals' noses, throats and anuses to track the changing concentration of the virus throughout the body. The team also euthanized and took tissue samples from one monkey seven days after infection to analyze the viral load in various organs.

Though, it doesn't change the outcome.

thank you!

Welcome.

Not everything regarding this virus need be bad news. Here's some good news: Italy seems to be turning a corner, as they have less deaths today than yesterday, but more importantly, they have way less new infections. The physical distancing is beginning to work. Importantly, it will be another week or so (or should be, by the numbers) before we see any real effect from our own directives that were put into place. It's typically about two weeks, since that seems to be the outer edge of time from point of infection to obvious symptoms. Once all of those people are identified, the actual new infections should dramatically lower.

[Midwest_non_sleeper]

Well with all the science going on at such high standards, isn't it time they came up with models to mimic human (animal) physiology that doesn't depend on whether 'the rabbit died'?

They're worried about mountain gorillas getting Covid from people, but continuing to 'sacrifice' innumerable other primates (and others) to find answers... why doesn't this make a lot of sense?

In 2020?

Probably because you can't grow a biologically accurate sample in a lab? Primates are the next best thing to assist in determining the pathology of something in humans, because we share a very large set of DNA with them (23 vs 24). Chimpanzees share a whopping 99% of their DNA with us, that's awfully close, and is a good test bed for pathological specimen. Granted, it can seem inhumane, but the only other option would be to test on actual humans. You go first, I'm right behind you, promise.

It almost seems that you're ok with humans dying for scientific purposes, but are upset that we use primates for the purpose of saving human lives. That is an ethical minefield, to be sure, but I posit a simple thought experiment for you:

There is a human being that you don't know hanging from a chain over a pit of lava. There is also a chimpanzee hanging over another pit. You can choose to save one, but the other dies. Which do you choose?

The other aspect of this is because there are so many variables that not even the most powerful computers can 'model' everything that needs to be modeled.

A very salient point there. I'm pretty sure that our strongest supercomputers could more easily model weather patterns as opposed to modelling all of the possible viral infection forks within a human genome...and they have a real hard time trying to model the weather.

[prodigyplace]

Welcome.

Not everything regarding this virus need be bad news. Here's some good news: Italy seems to be turning a corner, as they have less deaths today than yesterday, but more importantly, they have way less new infections. The physical distancing is beginning to work. Importantly, it will be another week or so (or should be, by the numbers) before we see any real effect from our own directives that were put into place. It's typically about two weeks, since that seems to be the outer edge of time from point of infection to obvious symptoms. Once all of those people are identified, the actual new infections should dramatically lower.

Except those in rural US especially are ignoring the rules and the roads & stores are busier than ever.

[Pugsy]

Except those in rural US especially are ignoring the rules and the roads & stores are busier than ever.

That's not happening around here and I am in SW Missouri which is mostly rural.
Hubby is an OTR truck driver and he says the traffic has reduced considerably. People are still out and about but not nearly like they were. I have noticed it as well when I go into town...and it really dries up a lot earlier when it does dry up. Late afternoon and evening much less traffic than in the mornings now.

There's no ban on driving somewhere. Just on where we go and what we do when we get there and this group thing.
When we are in our cars/trucks...we are either alone or have a family member with us who we live with so it doesn't hurt anything to be in a car with them.

I had to drive into Springfield last Friday....I had to take my mom to the doctor so she could be seen so we could continue to get home care nurse see her 3 times a week. This home care visit is critical and Medicare said they wouldn't pay for it anymore until she saw the doctor. We didn't have a choice...so off in the car we went.

Sometimes people have very valid reasons for being out on the roads....

Now I do understand that some people are simply rule breakers and likely part of the hoarding of TP problem...but most people are trying to stay home as much as possible given their circumstances.

Traffic in my rural area is reduced....hubby says traffic in the bigger cities is markedly reduced. Just got off the phone with him and he is in Oklahoma City and he said I 44 and OKC traffic is way down.

[Lifeisabeach]

https://www.livescience.com/monkeys-can ... study.html

Actual study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... ticle-info

Granted, it was a small study, and from China - although I find no reason to disbelieve it. SARS-CoV-2 does not appear to be a super-secret-bioengineered-weapon-with-supernatural-abilities. Everything seems to point that it is a normal Coronavirus that behaves just like...a normal Coronavirus. That means that infection results in antibodies that likely prohibit or offer protection to reinfection - at least, to the same strain.

Also, I was apparently wrong in my initial assessment:

The team introduced SARS-CoV-2 into the throats of four adult macaques and closely monitored the animals' symptoms and vital signs. The team collected swab samples from the animals' noses, throats and anuses to track the changing concentration of the virus throughout the body. The team also euthanized and took tissue samples from one monkey seven days after infection to analyze the viral load in various organs.

Though, it doesn't change the outcome.

thank you!

Welcome.

Not everything regarding this virus need be bad news. Here's some good news: Italy seems to be turning a corner, as they have less deaths today than yesterday, but more importantly, they have way less new infections. The physical distancing is beginning to work. Importantly, it will be another week or so (or should be, by the numbers) before we see any real effect from our own directives that were put into place. It's typically about two weeks, since that seems to be the outer edge of time from point of infection to obvious symptoms. Once all of those people are identified, the actual new infections should dramatically lower.

I'm actually rather surprised and impressed with the level of compliance I've seen. There's always the handful of rebels, but for the most part people are keeping their distance. Businesses putting out 6-foot markers on the floor as reminders. Etc etc and so on. Even on Facebook, people are pro-active on sharing articles and tips, to the point that the smart alecs who hadn't been taking this seriously early on are now drowned out.

[palerider]

Except those in rural US especially are ignoring the rules and the roads & stores are busier than ever.

That's not happening around here and I am in SW Missouri which is mostly rural.
Hubby is an OTR truck driver and he says the traffic has reduced considerably. People are still out and about but not nearly like they were. I have noticed it as well when I go into town...and it really dries up a lot earlier when it does dry up. Late afternoon and evening much less traffic than in the mornings now.

Well, like most things bruce says, mostly noise.

[zonker]

I'm actually rather surprised and impressed with the level of compliance I've seen. There's always the handful of rebels, but for the most part people are keeping their distance. Businesses putting out 6-foot markers on the floor as reminders. Etc etc and so on. Even on Facebook, people are pro-active on sharing articles and tips, to the point that the smart alecs who hadn't been taking this seriously early on are now drowned out.

here in the northwest (and west in general) there is a employee owned grocery store chain called WinCo. they are taking very prudent steps to protect themselves and their customers. physical distancing while we wait outside. once a customer comes out, the next customer is allowed in. if two customers come out, one is allowed in and the next only when the first has proceeded past the grocery cart area.

they are controlling how people line up for cashiers, again waiting until the line is clear before letting the next customer proceed.

they are cleaning like crazy. there are signs up urging six feet distance. they have a loop on the personal address system that interrupts the canned music every 5 minutes advising what products are limited and what the limit is.

very good experience and will be going back tomorrow for more things.

the bad thing, of course, are idiots dashing through the store without ANY regard to that six foot distance. but i'm a patient guy and retired. doesn't bother me if idiots can't look around.

*I* can and i wait them out.