Real men DO use RAMP

[ArtCominio]

On a Resmed AirSense 10 the ramp feature IS actually useful in BOTH CPAP and APAP modes for more than just a comfort setting. This is because the algorithm that detects and records events does not even run until after the ramp time.

Many of us have trouble falling asleep, so we see many “events” that should not be counted because they are simply due to irregular breathing patterns while trying to fall asleep. These should not be counted. If you turn ramp off, then events are counted from the second you push the button, even if you haven’t even climbed into bed yet.

There seems to be a reluctance to use ramp because it is understood ONLY AS A “comfort” feature. But it has a second very useful function. So... if you set ramp= 15 minutes, then for the first 15 minutes while you are falling asleep, events are not recorded. This true for both CPAP and APAP modes. This is a desirable feature, not one to be avoided as some posters opine.

I’ve tested the auto ramp feature in APAP mode and it does work. However, it does not always reliably detect sleep onset based on breathing patterns alone. That’s why in the sleep lab we use brain activity to detect the actual start of sleep. That way, only events during sleep are counted, and not the “false” events we see due to normal waking irregular breathing patterns.

Consider using ramp not just as a comfort feature, but to eliminate false events while still awake. The opinion that no experienced user needs the ramp feature is just bogus.

[CapnLoki]

...
There seems to be a reluctance to use ramp because it is understood ONLY AS A “comfort” feature. But it has a second very useful function. So... if you set ramp= 15 minutes, then for the first 15 minutes while you are falling asleep, events are not recorded. This true for both CPAP and APAP modes. This is a desirable feature, not one to be avoided as some posters opine.

I’ve tested the auto ramp feature in APAP mode and it does work. However, it does not always reliably detect sleep onset based on breathing patterns alone. That’s why in the sleep lab we use brain activity to detect the actual start of sleep. That way, only events during sleep are counted, and not the “false” events we see due to normal waking irregular breathing patterns.

Consider using ramp not just as a comfort feature, but to eliminate false events while still awake. The opinion that no experienced user needs the ramp feature is just bogus.

I don't see any value in eliminating the False Positives. I suppose if it forces the AHI to a high level, and some doctor or employer is basing some decision on it, you might have a point. But for most of us, we are the only one who look at the data, so altering the therapy just to make a number "look good" seems counter productive. Personally, I spent my first 8 months obsessively staring at SleepyHead charts, but after that I hardly look at the numbers.

[Dog Slobber]

Why are you creating essentially a second almost identical topic instead of addressing some of the points in your original topic?

• The amount of false positives is negligible for many, for many they go away as they get accustomed to CPAP use.
• AutoRamp, while not as accurate as EEG, isn't bad. It also is likely to err on the side of not noticing one has fallen asleep, instead of thinking one has fallen asleep when one has not. This is because awake breathing is typically to erratic to be be confused with asleep breathing.
• Should AutoRamp not detect you're asleep then ramp continues, which is the general premise of your post anyway.
• AutoRamp does monitor events and WILL exit ramp should it detect events sufficient to warrant switching to therapy mode.
• Your premise addresses those who have trouble falling asleep, but ignores therapy to those who fall asleep during ramp, and very possibly are therefore receiving inadequate pressure for the remainder of ramp.
• What reluctance to use ramp?

The most important aspect of CPAP is getting good sleep. The decision to use ramp should be primarily based on improving sleep quality and helping to fall asleep. Bot some insignificant false positive that the absolute majority of CPAP users outgrow and aren't bothered by.

[zonker]

Why are you creating essentially a second almost identical topic instead of addressing some of the points in your original topic?

spam, troll and one trick pony.

[zonker]

for those who would like to see the responses so far-

viewtopic/t176269/Ramp-in-CPAP-and-APAP.html

[ArtCominio]

I thought my first post was blocked by the moderators, and I still can’t find it. I qualified my post with the observation that it only applies to those whose score is dominated by false events. And yes, I do have a Doc who reviews my AHI score who I visit at least every six months.

Everybody is different. No one technique works for all. I am decidedly not a troll, and intended only to help
Where possible and applicable. My motivation for joining and posting is because In searching for information Ive seen incorrect information. That can be detrimental to certain individuals. This board was of no use to me in solving my biggest problem, so I intended only to help others like me.

I fully expected to get criticized for going against the conventional wisdom about use of the ramp feature.

Don’t worry because I have no intention of being a regular poster here.

[Dog Slobber]

I qualified my post with the observation that it only applies to those whose score is dominated by false events.

No you didn't.

The following is your two topics, no where in either does it suggest anything of the sort. Feel free to point out where you made the claim

For somebody who keeps claiming they only want to cleanup misinformation, you sure do post a lot of misinformation.

On a Resmed AirSense 10 the ramp feature IS actually useful in BOTH CPAP and APAP modes for more than just a comfort setting. This is because the algorithm that detects and records events does not even run until after the ramp time.

Many of us have trouble falling asleep, so we see many “events” that should not be counted because they are simply due to irregular breathing patterns while trying to fall asleep. These should not be counted. If you turn ramp off, then events are counted from the second you push the button, even if you haven’t even climbed into bed yet.

There seems to be a reluctance to use ramp because it is understood ONLY AS A “comfort” feature. But it has a second very useful function. So... if you set ramp= 15 minutes, then for the first 15 minutes while you are falling asleep, events are not recorded. This true for both CPAP and APAP modes. This is a desirable feature, not one to be avoided as some posters opine.

I’ve tested the auto ramp feature in APAP mode and it does work. However, it does not always reliably detect sleep onset based on breathing patterns alone. That’s why in the sleep lab we use brain activity to detect the actual start of sleep. That way, only events during sleep are counted, and not the “false” events we see due to normal waking irregular breathing patterns.

Consider using ramp not just as a comfort feature, but to eliminate false events while still awake. The opinion that no experienced user needs the ramp feature is just bogus.

I joined this board specifically because I have seen much BAD information about using the ramp feature for a ResMed AirSense 10.

Ramp is straightforward to understand in CPAP mode, but less so in APAP mode. Many have stated they turn ramp off. This may make perfect sense, but may be very useful to lower AHI scores in either CPAP or APAP modes.

RAMP WORKS DIFFERENTLY IN CPAP AND APAP MODES.

I have my machine set for APAP with a starting pressure of 6 and a max pressure of 15. Most would claim it makes no sense to turn ramp on in APAP mode.

With ramp off, I often see many events (using SleppyHead) during the period while I am still awake (because of irregular breathing pattern).

Because events are not even monitored during ramp time, using ramp allows the machine to ignore events while you are falling asleep.

Even those who use APAP will benefit from using ramp. it will cause the pressure to remain low for the entire ramp time. Then auto sense will kick in and start to adjust the pressure. BUT all events prior to ramp time will be ignored.

Those of us who use APAP and see events while falling asleep can significantly lower our AHI score by using ramp even in APAP mode.

SO RAMP CAN BE VERY USEFUL EVEN FOR APAP USERS!

Even CPAP users can see lower scores by turning ramp on to ignore events during the time they are falling asleep.

I know I am a new poster and expect much hate mail, to which I shall probably not respond.

Art Cominio

[chunkyfrog]

The weekend rears its ugly head . . .

[NoOnesPerfect]

To be fair, i thought both posts clearly stated that ramp was useful as a way to avoid false positives and thereby lower AHI. They certainly did NOT seem to say anything about scores being “dominated” by those false positives though.

Now that many of my mask and machine issues are more under control, almost all my events are sleep/wake/junk, so I can see the value of the ramp feature to reduce AHI, but I also have no trouble simply doing the math myself and calculating what I think is a relatively accurate number.

[babydinosnoreless]

Real women don't. We can do the math and take the false positives out of the equation without having the machine calculate it for us.

[Pugsy]

No one messed with your post. It's right where it belongs. No one blocked anything.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176269&p=1312101#p1312101
I don't know why you couldn't find it.
I found it easily enough...went to your member profile and clicked on "search user posts" and there it was.

I don't know why you feel the need to beat this dead horse to further death though.
This worry you have about false positives messing with your AHI is really a non issue to everyone but you apparently.
If a doctor can't distinguish between false positives and real positives (easily seen on the flow rate graphs) then he's not much of a doctor.

All this falls under the YMMV sticker...worry about it or don't worry about it....use ramp or don't use ramp....no one cares.
You are attempting to preach to the choir and the choir really doesn't want to hear that sermon.
The majority of cpap users could care less about false positives because our doctors long ago quit looking at anything (if they ever did).

I don't use the ramp....never have...never needed it but if someone else likes it, needs it, or wants to use it....I don't beat them up over using it and I don't lose any sleep worrying about what they do or don't do.
I am fine acknowledging that YMMV sticker.

[zonker]

I thought my first post was blocked by the moderators, and I still can’t find it. \

Don’t worry because I have no intention of being a regular poster here.

even though i linked to it in the post right before yours???

and thank you for admitting you're a one trick pony.

[ChicagoGranny]

Real women don't. We can do the math and take the false positives out of the equation without having the machine calculate it for us.

+1

[bombayone]

Go against group think and get beat up. Welcome to the forum.

[babydinosnoreless]

Go against group think and get beat up. Welcome to the forum.

I was beating him up for the sexist statement, I really don't care if someone uses ramp or not. I used it until I got used to my high pressures.