Apneas Whilst TRYING to sleep/wakefulness

[JTB1987]

Hello All,

I hope you are well and that therapy is going to plan!

For me, not so. Despite 2 years of good adoption with my CPAP, I’ve recently developed a ‘new’ sort of issue - experiencing what ‘seem to be’ apneas before I’m even asleep.

I’ll simply be trying to doze off, then as I get closer to getting to sleep, I experience a cessation in breathing and I am aware of my brain disinstructing my body to breathe (central apnea?). I can detect this brain activity as it happens and it’s quite frightening.

I’m now too afraid to use my CPAP, and have gone back to sleeping without it as this at least causes me fewer issues getting ‘TO’ sleep. I’m tired and unwell the next day, however.

If anyone could shed any light on this I’d be most appreciative.

The NHS system in UK has been looking after me and are aware, though progress has been at a snail’s pace.

Many thanks in advance for any replies.

Cheers.
James

[Julie]

It sounds like what we call 'sleep-wake' junk... they are clear airway events ('centrals') but when they occur just as you're going to sleep (and just before waking) they can and should be ignored as they're not harmful. You may have just encountered them, but do not stop using your machine because of them... worst idea! They are extremely common and your having just become conscious of them is unfortunate, but not meaningful and please continue to use your machine. You do not have 'central apnea' even if they are technically centrals, not unless e.g. you were to have many of them (while asleep and unaware) throughout the night, often in bunches (as might be seen on software like OSCAR).

[ChicagoGranny]

For me, not so. Despite 2 years of good adoption with my CPAP, I’ve recently developed a ‘new’ sort of issue - experiencing what ‘seem to be’ apneas before I’m even asleep.

I’ll simply be trying to doze off, then as I get closer to getting to sleep, I experience a cessation in breathing and I am aware of my brain disinstructing my body to breathe (central apnea?). I can detect this brain activity as it happens and it’s quite frightening.

What changed? Are you under some new stress? Did you have a lifestyle change?

You need to find a technique to relax when you first get in bed, and your mind needs to be distracted from your breathing. Once you fall asleep, your autonomic nervous system takes control of your breathing. It knows exactly what to do.

BTW and maybe more importantly, are you tracking your AHI and leak level daily?

[jennymar]

Yes, those are no fun at all. The same has been happening to me for almost a year. Was told it was sleep myoclonus, or "sleep starts". Do you wake violently making a loud gasping noise? This mostly happens when I try to nap, but I also have nights where this happens several times before I actually go to sleep. Waking in the morning after nights like this are always terrible. Anxiety attacks, stumbling over feet, feeling of dread, heart pounding. Do you feel anything like this after you wake up? It might not be the same as this started for you after starting CPAP therapy. I hope you are able to find out what is causing it!

[rionoirble]

I have had those nights frequently when I was dealing with a lot of anxiety. Got the anxiety under control and haven't experienced that since.

[jennymar]

I have had those nights frequently when I was dealing with a lot of anxiety. Got the anxiety under control and haven't experienced that since.

Great to hear!

[rionoirble]

Yes, those are no fun at all. The same has been happening to me for almost a year. Was told it was sleep myoclonus, or "sleep starts". Do you wake violently making a loud gasping noise? This mostly happens when I try to nap, but I also have nights where this happens several times before I actually go to sleep. Waking in the morning after nights like this are always terrible. Anxiety attacks, stumbling over feet, feeling of dread, heart pounding. Do you feel anything like this after you wake up? It might not be the same as this started for you after starting CPAP therapy. I hope you are able to find out what is causing it!

Was your doctor able to tell you what it was or did you go to a sleep specialist? I tried explaining it to my doctor, especially about being unable to nap because I would ALWAYS get them trying to fall asleep during the day, and I felt like I had an extra head growing out of me the way he was looking at me. haha I finally came across an article that seemed to somewhat explain it and sent it to him, but I still don't think he really believed me.

[ChicagoGranny]

I have had those nights frequently when I was dealing with a lot of anxiety. Got the anxiety under control and haven't experienced that since.

Any tips for getting anxiety under control?

Untreated sleep apnea is a major cause of anxiety. Maybe yours was resolved by the use of CPAP?

[palerider]

I am aware of my brain disinstructing my body to breathe (central apnea?). I can detect this brain activity as it happens and it’s quite frightening.

I’m now too afraid to use my CPAP, and have gone back to sleeping without it as this at least causes me fewer issues getting ‘TO’ sleep. I’m tired and unwell the next day, however.

If anyone could shed any light on this I’d be most appreciative.

"Transition apnea" it's a thing,look it up, quit worrying,go to sleep.

[bjhunt01]

Hello All,

I hope you are well and that therapy is going to plan!

For me, not so. Despite 2 years of good adoption with my CPAP, I’ve recently developed a ‘new’ sort of issue - experiencing what ‘seem to be’ apneas before I’m even asleep.

I’ll simply be trying to doze off, then as I get closer to getting to sleep, I experience a cessation in breathing and I am aware of my brain disinstructing my body to breathe (central apnea?). I can detect this brain activity as it happens and it’s quite frightening.

I’m now too afraid to use my CPAP, and have gone back to sleeping without it as this at least causes me fewer issues getting ‘TO’ sleep. I’m tired and unwell the next day, however.

If anyone could shed any light on this I’d be most appreciative.

The NHS system in UK has been looking after me and are aware, though progress has been at a snail’s pace.

Many thanks in advance for any replies.



Cheers.
James

Are you using the Sleepyhead or Oscar ap? If so perhaps you could post your results as per these instructions:

viewtopic/t88983/Pugsys-PointersSleepyH ... Hints.html

and let the experts take a look and see if they see anything useful to give you feedback on. Cheers too!

[jennymar]

Was your doctor able to tell you what it was or did you go to a sleep specialist? I tried explaining it to my doctor, especially about being unable to nap because I would ALWAYS get them trying to fall asleep during the day, and I felt like I had an extra head growing out of me the way he was looking at me. haha I finally came across an article that seemed to somewhat explain it and sent it to him, but I still don't think he really believed me.
[/quote]

I got that look too. Never saw a sleep specialist, I learned about sleep myoclonus myself and asked if that what was going on. Was told probably. It was actually my psyc doctor who told me that it sounded like sleep apnea!

[rionoirble]

Any tips for getting anxiety under control?

Untreated sleep apnea is a major cause of anxiety. Maybe yours was resolved by the use of CPAP?

The sleep apnea definitely wasn’t helping, but nursing school has been a source of a good deal of anxiety the last year. I started seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist and meds and therapy have pretty much resolved everything.

[Julie]

It's quite possible the meds have had some effect - happens all the time depending on what people take, how much, at what time, etc. You might want to look into that if you haven't.

[JTB1987]

Thank you all for the replies! I was not notified of the replies hence the delay. I’m also travelling.

I’ll look at them closely and revert.

I saw anxiety come up; I would be surprised if this is the cause. I even got home having had too much to drink the other night (rare), and the events still occurred. My brain would ‘flash’ me back into full wakefulness despite not even being asleep.

Thank you all very much.

James

[idlewire]

I suffer from something similar, which started about 5 months ago on and off, and really bloomed about 2 months ago. This was before starting CPAP, so I cannot blame the CPAP. I would put to the side the replies telling you to ignore this or that it's the result of stress or anxiety. As far as I know, anxiety does not cause you to unconsciously stop breathing and your oxygen to drop when you fall asleep. I have gone to bed many nights perfectly calm only for this to happen. Nor is ignoring it an option if it persistently keeps you awake and causes adrenaline release.

I think you should first identify if these are central apneas. Is your CPAP machine able to detect central apneas and do you have access to the data? If so, definitely use the CPAP while this is happening just so you can get some data. You can also buy a pulse oximeter and check if your oxygen level is lower after these awakenings. I thought these were "hypnic jerks" (or "sleep myoclonus") for a long time until I bought an oxygen meter, which pointed me in the direction of apnea.