Odd request... only reason I can think of for APNEA being a good thing.

[Gryphon]

My father suffered a severe hemorrhagic stroke that has destroyed his brain. Hes not with us anymore but they have him on a ventilator, were all here praying that he can die peacefully when they take out his breathing tube but the hospital staff thinks he could go on breathing on his own for weeks or months. The hospital doesnt seam to be taking his sleep apnea into consideration but they are going to be giving him comfort meds which will make his apnea worse.

Were all hoping he can pass peacefully but we just dont know... I dont want this to come off sounding the wrong way but if he had sevier apnea and is on morphine would that help him pass away faster?

Were with him now and just desperately praying for him to pass soon. So he doesnt have suffer more.

Sorry for this post.

Gryphon

[Pugsy]

My heart goes out to you.

Yes...the morphine might help speed things along because it suppresses respiration. A lot would depend on the dosage.
If it were my father I would make sure he got the maximum allowed and as often as allowed.
Morphine is used often in those "assisted suicide" situations but that usually involves one big dose. Enough of it will suppress the respiration enough for it to just stop the breathing process.

[medlabtech.miracle]

Gryphon,

so sorry what you are going through. My mom had a cerebral aneurysm and fell. She was alone at the time, by the time they found her she had brain swelling. The surgery relieved the swelling but the damage was severe. She was in a coma on a respirator for 2 weeks, after removed and lived about another week.

I add my prayers.

[Gryphon]

That's kind of what I thought.

Kind of ironic that I'm sitting here watching my father's monitors getting hopeful when I see things getting worse when a week ago I was praying for anything as a sign of improvement. His SpO2 is holding about 90... and all the classic apnea noises is killing me combined with all the congestion from his week and a half on the ventilator.

It sounds horrible and my father couldnt do any thing quietly. Thanks for your advice and thoughts.

Gryphon

[Grace~~~]

I am praying for peace for your family and for the end of suffering for your father, Gryphon.

I agree with Pugsy about asking for the highest allowable dose of morphine at the highest frequency.

Is there anyone else who you think your father needs to see before he goes? Sometimes people hang on waiting for one more person to return.

Also, perhaps a Priest could help and guide the transition? As well as be a comfort to the family.
I'm sure you are all there praying and saying and reassuring, "it's OK Dad. You've done well. Go on ahead and we will see you soon. It's OK. We love you."

Nothing can really prepare us for these realities in life.
I am so sorry for your loss, Gryphon.

...and to think of all the mundane things we can become irritated by that are meaningless.

May peace settle over you and The Spirit keep you.

[Gryphon]

We've all said lots of prayers had our pastor and lots of family have come. My Mom and Sis and my wife and her husband are all here with him and have told him repeatedly that we love him and that he can go and move on. He's had 2 doses of morphine but I dont want to be obvious like I'm asking them to intervene... the one nurse said it wouldn't do anything to his resperation but I'm thinking it will. It's so painful to be here but we've had other family pass when we left the room and we didnt want that to happen again.

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. I've let my family know you all are thinking about us too.

Gryphon

[Julie]

So very sorry - but as someone who worked with neuro docs for decades, I personally would (and did do so myself when it came up) talk to the doctors... they may be waiting for you to do so but feel constrained to initiate the talk themselves. Hope this helps.

[Lucyhere]

Thoughts and prayers for you and your dad. Similar situation with my dad... but I've always felt that 'someone' intervened on his behalf. I was grateful!

[Gryphon]

His breathing seams to have stabalised with the occasional room shattering gasp and rumble. All sorts of odd noises.

Were all just sitting here talking and texting extended family listening to him breathing. No one wants to leave because when my grandfather was in the hospital after struggling with a ventilator for 10 years he made the choice to end care and the hospital staff told us that it would take days we left to get some food and he passed when we weren't there.

Sigh... I just pray this doesnt go on for weeks etc... etc...

his SpO2 is hanging out at 90-92

Resperation is around 20 to 24 bpm

BP is stable.

[chunkyfrog]

Don't forget to take care of yourself.
Sometimes a person will hold on, not wanting to pass in the presence of loved ones.
Comfort one another--relentlessly.

[kteague]

Such a sad situation you and your family are facing. Is Hospice handling his care? Just wondering if their dosing restrictions are looser than in regular care. Good to hear of your strong family network of support.

[babydinosnoreless]

His breathing seams to have stabalised with the occasional room shattering gasp and rumble. All sorts of odd noises.

Were all just sitting here talking and texting extended family listening to him breathing. No one wants to leave because when my grandfather was in the hospital after struggling with a ventilator for 10 years he made the choice to end care and the hospital staff told us that it would take days we left to get some food and he passed when we weren't there.

Sigh... I just pray this doesnt go on for weeks etc... etc...

his SpO2 is hanging out at 90-92

Resperation is around 20 to 24 bpm

BP is stable.

I am so sorry. Years ago my dad passed when I left the hospital real quick to pick up my kids. My mom was with him but I have always felt he waited till I left because he felt he was protecting me.

Take care of yourself.

[D.H.]

To the OP:


I'm sorry for your situation and pending loss.

I would want my Sleep Apnea treated in that situation. I would want to make my passing as comfortable as possible, and treating my Sleep Apnea is part of being comfortable.

[jnk...]

The hospital doesnt seam to be taking his sleep apnea into consideration but they are going to be giving him comfort meds which will make his apnea worse.

All the considerations on apnea change once the mission is no longer one of keeping someone breathing. It is ok, even desirable, for apnea to increase as long as the "comfort meds" make it a humane process.

all the classic apnea noises is killing me combined with all the congestion from his week and a half on the ventilator.

It sounds horrible

Not something pleasant to hear. Or see. Of course. But it does not represent any suffering in this circumstance. Medically speaking, it is ok for morphine to help things along by affecting respiration during this point in palliative care. That's the loving thing now. How heartwarming that you have been there as much as you have!

I would want my Sleep Apnea treated in that situation. I would want to make my passing as comfortable as possible, and treating my Sleep Apnea is part of being comfortable.

You may want to reconsider your statement, sir.

At end of life, the point is to fascilitate the cessation of breathing during sleep. It is obviously preferable to be asleep when one stops breathing in that circumstance. That is what comfort for the departing and comfort for the loved ones should be all about. Thus the "comfort meds."

Please show proper consideration to the OP in this thread. Buildup of CO2 is the best painkiller there is when one begins the transition. CPAP would just deny the departing that beneficial effect in that circumstance.

[Gryphon]

Ya... that was sort of my hope... when the hospital counselor warned us that he was essentially brain dead but physically strong and could go on for an unforeseen amount of time I started to hope that the sleep apnea would pop up and help him in passing.

They're not supporting his apnea and we dont want them to. It's just hard seeing him like that and thinking it could go on for weeks or months...

I was hoping the apnea would be worse. "And I'm a bit conflicted about that desire" but it was ment with the wish for him to be able to move on not to put him in any pain but as we dont feel as though he's with us any more. Just his body doing its thing breathing in and out although with the struggle of apnea. He was always a fighter.

Still with him still physically there we cant move forward and it's so hard thinking of the struggle. His o2 evened out and they're moving him out of the ICU to another part of the hospital. We're in it for the long haul... we took my mom home for a break and to get some food in every one. My Mom and wife are both diabetic and my Sister is pregnant so we need to make sure everyone stays healthy even though we want to be there for my Dad.

Thanks again for all the messages. It helps to hear your stories and exsperiances.

Bless you all!

Gryphon