Resmed VPAP III lots of questions, funtions, Insurance, etc

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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dornback
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Resmed VPAP III lots of questions, funtions, Insurance, etc

Post by dornback » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:24 pm

My Resmed VPAP III came in a blue backpack and everything else came in the original box. I suspect the unit itself is not new. I’ve had it for almost 2000 hours or 261 days. My questions are:

Is it normal that it didn’t come with a manual and that Resmed has not downloable literature?

My insurance has been paying for it and in a few more months I assume that it’s mine. Is it most likely a rent to own deal? Is that how it works for most folks?

I sleep with it pretty well and feel more alert. I don’t snore, but just in the last week or two I haven’t felt as rested as I have in the past few months. I accidentally pulled it off the nightstand and for a few days it displayed some error about “High Leak” Is there a self test that I can run to make sure it’s functioning properly. If it’s broke, will my insurance just get me a different machine?

The little Air filter on the back, how often should that be replaced?

I’m flying to Australia in a few weeks and was angling to get a different model that the Airlines will allow (UAL allows a Resmed Elite S8) but the machine isn’t capable of being a Bi-PPAP.

If the doc determines I’m better suited for a different type of therapy, are they (Blue Cross) likely to pay for a machine?

Can I adjust the ramp time or only a clinician?

It seems like a APAP is the same as a Bi-PAP but my sleep doc said no because I have central apneas or something like that. I get all googley around her because she is so attractive. I can never remember my questions.

Thanks in advance

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Rastaman
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Post by Rastaman » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:38 pm

I'm going to do my best to throw out what I know and hopefully others will come along and add more.

It's not normal that you didn't get a manual. Where did you get your machine from? My DME (Durable Medical Equipment) is in the same office as my Sleep Doc. But even if they weren't I would be calling them asking where is my manual.

I was told that most insurance companies request the last 5 years of background on a machine and so they shouldn't have sold me a used machine. But for all I know mine is used. It didn't look like it though.

I have an APAP. I change my square filter once a month. I got 2 extras and I get new ones every 3 months. Again, through my DME.

I was told I would have to decide to rent or buy but in fact it's a rent to own deal. I was told after 1 month I would have to come in and decide. That never happened. And when I got there I wasn't there to see the DME afterall, but the sleep doc instead. I just happened to request a new mask due to some issues and the Sleep Doc got me an appt with my DME to replace it.

My machine came with that same "laptop" looking blue carry case. It came with the manual, a smart card, a return address envelope, a hose, filters, etc. I even got a DVD for the mask. They also gave me a form to take on airplanes that says I have a CPAP and that it's medically necessary. Really only YOU know if it's a VPAP, APAP or CPAP. It would be very weird for them to specify which models they allow on the airplane and not just "a cpap" device. See your DME about this letter. My DME gave me one with a little folder. The letter is signed by the doctor and has contact numbers.

I can adjust my ramp time (for CPAP only) and my settling time for APAP. I push the right and down buttons at the same time for a couple of seconds and the clinician menu comes up. It has all the settings and results too for my machine. The results are deleted by noon each day but save internally so the smart card can pull that data if needbe. The left button goes deeper in the menu and the right button back out of each menu sub-category. Up and down are just that. Whether or not you're supposed to access this menu I have no idea. No one has told me yes or no. But this website was very helpful with HOW. I'm computer literate and this machine is easier than a digital watch as far as navigating. I've always been able to figure those out without instructions actually. For anyone who needed it.

As far as what a BIPAP is vs. APAP, my understanding is that BIPAP's are for people with higher pressure needs and for people who need one set pressure to inhale with and another to exhale with. I didn't even think about the central apneas aspect of it but that makes some sense. A CPAP has a fixed pressure. An APAP changes breath to breath, minute to minute. Based on your needs at the time. Minimum pressure needed at all times. Very nice. But I did assume a BIPAP was an APAP plus! It costs about twice as much and I can't imagine it not having an APAP feature for THAT huge price. For example, a CPAP or APAP might cost you up to $875 (with humidifier) here on cpap.com but a BIPAP or VPAP III might cost you $1300 to $1400 or more.



I hope others will shed more light than I have. But this is my story and I'm sticking to it. I was on CPAP for 2 weeks and now APAP for 1 more month (6 weeks total). There are many here with BIPAP's (not APAP) who can definitely shed more light on this subject once they check in and see your question. But sometimes it can take a day or two. So don't forget to bump your message if needbe. (Just reply again if no one else replies and say "bump" and submit.)


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Post by Darth Vader Look » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:19 am

dornback wrote:My Resmed VPAP III came in a blue backpack and everything else came in the original box. I suspect the unit itself is not new. I’ve had it for almost 2000 hours or 261 days. My questions are:

Is it normal that it didn’t come with a manual and that Resmed has not downloable literature?
In all likelihood you received a used unit. You should have at least had a users manual with it. I would have demanded that. You should at the very least notify the DME about it and see if after all this time they will give you one or a photo copy of one.

Some insurance companies pay the high rental rate for a period and then you own the machine.

Provided there is no external damage to the machine I would see if the DME where you purchased it will have it fixed or replaced. You have at least a 2 year warranty on it. There is no self test that will determine if it is working properly. Have the DME check it out or send it back for repairs.

The air filter can be cleaned if it is of the foam type. If not see how dirty it is. Normal replacement can vary from a couple of weeks to 2 months.

Any xPAP can be taken aboard a plane as a carry on but not count as a carry on. That is usually spelled out in the manual or with a separate flyer (excuse the pun). If the doctor put you on a BiPAP you need to stay on it. There is a reason he did that. From your post it is definitely based on you having central apneas. For centrals this is one of the best machines to have. The only other one to consider would be the Respironics BiPAP Auto.

The Auto and the BiPAP are 2 different xPAPs and are not the same.


Issac
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Post by Issac » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:49 am

Mr Vader or Mr. Dornback,
Please , what is VPAP ?
I do not see it on the CPAPopedia that seems to stop at the letter T .

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rested gal
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Post by rested gal » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:04 am

A bi-level machine is set for one fixed pressure for inhaling (the IPAP setting) and one fixed lower pressure for exhaling (the EPAP setting).

BiPAP = Respironics' bi-level machine
VPAP = ResMed's bi-level machine
GoodKnight 425 = Puritan Bennett's bi-level machine

Often all bi-level machines are called a "bipap"; however, the word "BiPAP" is actually Respironics' trademark name for its bi-level machine.

VPAP is ResMed's trademark name for its bi-level machine.

Calling every brand of bi-level machine a "bipap" is kind of like the way we call all brands of tissues "kleenex", or all lip balms "chapstick".

Respironics also makes another bi-level machine called the "Synchrony". DeVilbiss makes one called the "RPM."

Some models of bi-level machines can also come in an "ST" (spontaneous/timed) version, which can be set to deliver timed "backup" breaths if a person stops spontaneously breathing. The ST models are usually the machine of choice for people with Central Sleep Apnea.

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GoofyUT
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And more....

Post by GoofyUT » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:54 am

One other point of clarification:

A Bi-level machione is NOT an auto, unlike what Rastaman said. Bi-level machines (BiPAP, VPAP or PB425) simply deliver one set pressure for inhaling and another set pressure for exhaling.

Now, Respironics has defined the state-of-the-art for Bi-level therapy machiens with its BiPAP Auto with Cflex which IS an auto machien that will monitor your respiration and titrate pressures to control SDB events. And, it also offers expiratory relief with Cflex, Respironic's proprietary expiratory relief technology. So, the Respironics BiPAP Auto is probably the most VERSATILE Bi-level machine available.

If you suffer primarily from central apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respiration (CSR), then your doctor would certainly have considered bi-level therapy or bi-level spontaneous/timed (ST) therapy, and CPAP or conventional APAP would NOT have been an option.

To Rastaman: Your S8 AutoSet does NOT adjust its pressures breath by breath or minute by minute. Stop taking the ResMed sales literaure in blind faith. It does monitor each breath for waveform, and then takes a three breath average. If it finds signs of an impending event, it'll adjust pressure, fairly rapidly. But once it does, it reduces that pressure gradually over a period of about 20 minutes. So, NO, not breath by breath 24 hours a day, seven days a week or whatever it is that you've convinced yourself of.

Hope this helps.

Chuck

People are dying every day in Darfur simply for who they are!!! PLEASE HELP THEM!
http://www.savedarfur.org

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dornback
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Thanks

Post by dornback » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:05 am

Wow, I appreciate all the feedback. I will call the DME folks and try to get them to swap out my machine and give me a manual. I'll also try to adjust the ramp time as you said.

If I get up in the night, I hit the big button so it doesn't blow water into the tube, and then when I put my mask on I hit it again to begin the ramp up process. Essentially, I want that ramp time shortened so I can get to sleep faster.

Because of my traveling, I am hoping that Resmed comes out with a S8 model that is capable of being a BiPAP

United Airlines allows folks to plug in CPAP's but only allows four specific models. You have to request clearance and then they put you in a seat where the power sources are.

I will also ask my Sleep doc about the ST feature of the VPAP III. They yelled at me for not bringing my machine in when I went in recently. They never told me so it never occured to me to bring it.


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Rastaman
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Post by Rastaman » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:25 am

Just something else to add. I too wanted to lower my settling time (similar to ramp time but for APAP's) but when I did my AHI went up. The goal being to get it below 5. But really it matters how you feel most. 30 minutes seemed to be perfect. Others here had success with that.

And then I had to up my minimum pressure from 8 to 10. Doing so, I finally got my AHI last night down to 3.9! Plus, I thought 8 was too low. It seemed like my breathing was higher than that until I FULLY relaxed. I actually "rely" on that blowing air and then I adjust myself to it. Later in the night I can't even tell it's on. It fools me alot. If you're wanting the ramp time to be lower you certainly can do that easily. I had turned mine down to about 10 minutes on both CPAP (fixed pressure) and APAP (adjusting pressure) but my AHI was shooting up to 10 or so. So, it was the ramping time or settling time where it wasn't keeping track of me opening my mouth and talking or coughing or whatever. It starts keeping track once the ramp/settling time ends. And if you're still awake when that happens your AHI will rise. Or so it was with me.


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Rastaman
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Re: And more....

Post by Rastaman » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:55 am

[quote="GoofyUT"]One other point of clarification:

A Bi-level machione is NOT an auto, unlike what Rastaman said. Bi-level machines (BiPAP, VPAP or PB425) simply deliver one set pressure for inhaling and another set pressure for exhaling.

Now, Respironics has defined the state-of-the-art for Bi-level therapy machiens with its BiPAP Auto with Cflex which IS an auto machien that will monitor your respiration and titrate pressures to control SDB events. And, it also offers expiratory relief with Cflex, Respironic's proprietary expiratory relief technology. So, the Respironics BiPAP Auto is probably the most VERSATILE Bi-level machine available.

If you suffer primarily from central apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respiration (CSR), then your doctor would certainly have considered bi-level therapy or bi-level spontaneous/timed (ST) therapy, and CPAP or conventional APAP would NOT have been an option.

To Rastaman: Your S8 AutoSet does NOT adjust its pressures breath by breath or minute by minute. Stop taking the ResMed sales literaure in blind faith. It does monitor each breath for waveform, and then takes a three breath average. If it finds signs of an impending event, it'll adjust pressure, fairly rapidly. But once it does, it reduces that pressure gradually over a period of about 20 minutes. So, NO, not breath by breath 24 hours a day, seven days a week or whatever it is that you've convinced yourself of.

Hope this helps.

Chuck


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GoofyUT
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Huh?

Post by GoofyUT » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:20 am

Rastaman-

I'm not sure what it is that you're not getting.

Your S8 is NOT adjusting to your every breath. Despite what you want to believe. It is SCORING every breath, then averaging every three and then adjusting for a period of about 20 minutes if its detects what it believes are the pre-cursors of an apnea.

And, its not that Bi-level is a CPAP with more toys. You either need it or you don't. That's why your sleep-doc put you on CPAP, not bi-level.

Got it?

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Post by Darth Vader Look » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:48 pm

dornback wrote:I will also ask my Sleep doc about the ST feature of the VPAP III. They yelled at me for not bringing my machine in when I went in recently. They never told me so it never occured to me to bring it.
Your Resmed VPAPIII does have the manually settable S/T feature and that is likely why your doctor specified that machine (in relation to the central apneas they saw at your sleep study). These machines need to be set up properly for your breathing. Most DMEs have no clue on how to set these machines up for the patient/client. I would be surprised if your doctor knew how to set them up. In reality the sleep techs should be placing you on one of these machines during your 2nd sleep study so that they can optimize these settings for you. I know of 2 others on another forum who have these units and have set them up themselves due to lack of knowledge by their DMEs. Should you run into problems in this area post on the forum or PM me and I will put you in touch with them. There is likely some here who use that machine that would be happy to help you out if you need it.

Please ask your doctor about using a different type of xPAP while on a plane. She will definitely have an opinion on that based on the information you have supplied us.


drduk

New cpap USER

Post by drduk » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:45 am

Question: Second night on my new Respironics Auto CPAP with Cflex. It's going good except that by early morning ~ 5:00 am I am awakened with excessive pressures on my nasal mask (I normally get up about 6:00 am) . Is this normal? Can I reduce this a bit? It just seems to be blowing really hard. Thanks for any information. Larry


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Re: New cpap USER

Post by Snoredog » Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:00 am

[quote="drduk"]Question: Second night on my new Respironics Auto CPAP with Cflex. It's going good except that by early morning ~ 5:00 am I am awakened with excessive pressures on my nasal mask (I normally get up about 6:00 am) . Is this normal? Can I reduce this a bit? It just seems to be blowing really hard. Thanks for any information. Larry


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Post by christinequilts » Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:13 pm

Darth Vader Look wrote: Your Resmed VPAPIII does have the manually settable S/T feature and that is likely why your doctor specified that machine (in relation to the central apneas they saw at your sleep study).
There are 2 different models of the VPAP III- the regular or Spontanous and the ST (for spontanous & timed). Timed mode ups the price considerable- $1279 versus $2795 for VPAP III ST here are cpap.com.

Not all people with central apneas need the backup rate a ST machine can give. It depends on the severity of the central apneas, possible causes, etc. And having central apneas does not mean someone necessarly has CSA- a certain number are normal during sleep; well other may be due to Mixed Apnea, either caused by or a symtom of OSA, caused by xPAP titration pressures, misread/labeled obstructive apneas, etc.


Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:22 pm

Just wanted to add.

1) There is a clinical menu on the VPAP III & VPAP III S/T that holds a value
recording the total # of hours the machine has run for since new. This is you clue as to if the machine was pre-used but you need someone to explain how to get to that info.

2) The Respironics Bipap AUTO is an excellent machine but is not what I would recommend to someone who is diagnosed with centrals (in fact no regular AUTO is going to be the machine of choice for someone with a strong centrals component in their apnea - this is because increasing pressure does not clear a central nor prevent them, but it can induce them)

3) Resmed have released a new machine called the VPAP Adapt that fits the description you are looking for but these are rather expensive (see description in the below link). They are also very new & I don't know anyone who has got to try one.

http://www.hhponline.com/Stevens/HHPPub ... enDocument

Travelling to Australia with a VPAP III is (well prior to London yesterday it was) ok - a friend flew to Sydney in April this year & had carried a Bipap S/T on board. But the VPAP III is a bit bulky - well, perhaps a bit larger than a Bipap S/T.

Good luck on your trip - Australia is a great destination

DSM