Speculations about CPAP-dependency.

[camper]

Although I am not medically qualified, I have been reading up on "CPAP dependency", sometimes called "CPAP addiction": people who regularly use CPAP have problems breathing and getting to sleep, and suffer severe side effects, sometimes even die, without it. I have not been able to find any published refereed journal articles or current clinical trials that determined or could determine whether or not there is a causal relationship - i.e., whether the people who had these problems would have the same problems if they had never used CPAP.

The only obvious sign I could find of a causal link is that it also affects some patients who have had corrective surgery, but perhaps there are other reasons for that.

I speculate that there is no available funding for such studies, because the CPAP industry could only suffer from a positive causal finding, and would not benefit much from a negative finding.

One surgeon, Dr. Paulose, implies that the causes are neurological

Brainstem activity for respiratory drive is taken over by CPAP leading to no spontaneous neuromuscular drive. As a result, these patients cannot breathe spontaneously.

but admits that

few investigators have attempted to determine the pathophysiologic mechanisms underlying weaning failure in long-term CPAP-dependent patients.

I wonder if one's in-breathing muscles might be weakened too...

I speculate that IF there is a CPAP use induced problem (a fact NOT firmly established by the literature I have found so far), it might be less likely to occur if one were to substitute a passive device (e.g., Theravent, Provent or OptiPillows) for an active powered CPAP (or similar type) machine, because you still have to breath on your own. (However, an unpowered device in which expiratory pressure is used to inflate a bladder or stretch a spring to generate Inspiratory pressure might have the same problems as an active powered device.)

However, despite this study, which advocated them, there are no such devices available for mouth breathers, AFAICT. (Could one tape such a device to a CPAP mask? I may eventually try it.)

Also, as pointed out by NateS in this forum, the Theravent study excluded OSA and other obvious apnea criteria, and only talked about snoring. (But see Wikipedia article mentioning other OSA studies.)

In any event, if one were to become CPAP-dependent, one might reduce the likelihood of having problems by using an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide back-up power to the CPAP machine. Power loss isn't the only way CPAP machines fail, and UPS' machines fail sometimes too, and it wouldn't help in emergency situations where one needed to sleep without a CPAP machine, but it would help the rest of the time.

This forum had another thread on CPAP-dependency, here, but no academic study evidence to support or refute the contention that it is caused or worsened by CPAP use, was mentioned..

Anyway - to repeat - I found little academic evidence to panic over using CPAP, etc. at this time. OTA, there is no doubt that many people have benefitted from CPAP and similar therapies.

P.S. Are any of you familiar with studies attempting to determine whether there is a casual relationship between CPAP use and CPAP dependency?

[Dog Slobber]

• You've done some reading on the Internet
• You're not medically qualified
• You not supporting your facts with data
• Your content is somewhat alarmist
  • problems breathing
  • problems getting to sleep
  • suffer severe side effects
  • sometimes even die

Dr. Breus, is that you?

[Julie]

You're complicating things way out of proportion. Of course if you're used to Cpap and benefit from it, not using it for whatever reason will result in negative experiences, feelings, etc, but that doesn't mean it's a major philosophical catastrophe, it just means you need Cpap and should continue using it, the same way you continue wearing glasses (or taking insulin) because they're needed. Being 'dependent' on something that is a valid necessity for daily life does not make you an 'addict' or somehow deficient otherwise. Just use the thing and don't overanalyze!

[chunkyfrog]

Dear camper,
You are welcome to embrace your own denial.
For the sake of others, PLEASE refrain from trying to share it.
If your words cause harm, remember that your anonymity CAN be breached,
and civil recourse may be taken against you. Perhaps even criminal charges.
Have an extremely nice day . . .

[NoOnesPerfect]

My APAP doesn’t breathe for me - I still need to inhale and exhale all by myself. It uses pressurized air to keep my airways open so that I CAN breathe. Without any treatment, I am likely to suffer Ill effects, and maybe die from complications arising from my inability to breathe properly while sleeping. Even the machines that assist with breathing act only as a backup - you still work all those muscles on your own every night. I think you are confused .

[bombayone]

CPAP is safe and effective. How dare you question it on this forum. Heresy is not tolerated.

[chunkyfrog]

Many of us were born with an assortment of minor birth defects.
Thanks to technology, I have been able to outlive my "warranty", relishing every precious day.
My glasses, my hearing aid, my cane, and ESPECIALLY my cpap, are necessary for a full life.
Medicine takes away my pain and adjusts for internal flaws.
Nature has been unkind--science is a gift.

[zonker]

Have an extremely nice day . . .

datalaughing.gif

[chunkyfrog]

CPAP is safe and effective. How dare you question it on this forum. Heresy is not tolerated.

Heresy?
Odd choice of words.
You seem to confuse our reasoning with blind dogma.
There is no dogma here--except when we are invaded by shills and trolls.
THEY bring theirs--we counter with the facts--just the facts, ma'm.

[zonker]

CPAP is safe and effective. How dare you question it on this forum. Heresy is not tolerated.

Heresy?
Odd choice of words.
You seem to confuse our reasoning with blind dogma.
There is no dogma here--except when we are invaded by shills and trolls.
THEY bring theirs--we counter with the facts--just the facts, ma'm.

again, it's almost like they named this forum CPAPTALK on purpose....

[Goofproof]

Although I am not medically qualified, I have been reading up on "CPAP dependency", sometimes called "CPAP addiction": people who regularly use CPAP have problems breathing and getting to sleep, and suffer severe side effects, sometimes even die, without it. I have not been able to find any published refereed journal articles or current clinical trials that determined or could determine whether or not there is a causal relationship - i.e., whether the people who had these problems would have the same problems if they had never used CPAP.

The only obvious sign I could find of a causal link is that it also affects some patients who have had corrective surgery, but perhaps there are other reasons for that.

I speculate that there is no available funding for such studies, because the CPAP industry could only suffer from a positive causal finding, and would not benefit much from a negative finding.

One surgeon, Dr. Paulose, implies that the causes are neurological

Brainstem activity for respiratory drive is taken over by CPAP leading to no spontaneous neuromuscular drive. As a result, these patients cannot breathe spontaneously.

but admits that

few investigators have attempted to determine the pathophysiologic mechanisms underlying weaning failure in long-term CPAP-dependent patients.

I wonder if one's in-breathing muscles might be weakened too...

I speculate that IF there is a CPAP use induced problem (a fact NOT firmly established by the literature I have found so far), it might be less likely to occur if one were to substitute a passive device (e.g., Theravent, Provent or OptiPillows) for an active powered CPAP (or similar type) machine, because you still have to breath on your own. (However, an unpowered device in which expiratory pressure is used to inflate a bladder or stretch a spring to generate Inspiratory pressure might have the same problems as an active powered device.)

However, despite this study, which advocated them, there are no such devices available for mouth breathers, AFAICT. (Could one tape such a device to a CPAP mask? I may eventually try it.)

Also, as pointed out by NateS in this forum, the Theravent study excluded OSA and other obvious apnea criteria, and only talked about snoring. (But see Wikipedia article mentioning other OSA studies.)

In any event, if one were to become CPAP-dependent, one might reduce the likelihood of having problems by using an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide back-up power to the CPAP machine. Power loss isn't the only way CPAP machines fail, and UPS' machines fail sometimes too, and it wouldn't help in emergency situations where one needed to sleep without a CPAP machine, but it would help the rest of the time.

This forum had another thread on CPAP-dependency, here, but no academic study evidence to support or refute the contention that it is caused or worsened by CPAP use, was mentioned..

Anyway - to repeat - I found little academic evidence to panic over using CPAP, etc. at this time. OTA, there is no doubt that many people have benefitted from CPAP and similar therapies.

P.S. Are any of you familiar with studies attempting to determine whether there is a casual relationship between CPAP use and CPAP dependency?

While you can READ, many that can shouldn't because they read BullCrap, and think it correct! Yes, we are XPAP dependent, not because we use XPAP to treat Sleep Apnea, but because it helps us to breath and sleep at night, therefore helping to keep us alive, so being alive with Sleep Apnea, we need XPAP to keep on keeping on!

As far as use of XPAPs wreaking the Lungs, doesn't it make sense the effort of pushing air out of the lungs, at a higher pressure, would make them stronger? Why when you start XPAP does the chest hurt a little, because it being expanded to a larger volume, also more effort is required to exhale. Studies are used for Publishing and Self Drum Beating, I believe in Logic, not what others spout, I learn how things work and apply logic to understanding what is really going on.

I don't require a fool with a basket of letters after his name to guide me into incorrect thinking. I was taught to think for myself, it has served me well. Jim

[palerider]

Although I am not medically qualified

That's all that really needs to be said.

I have been reading up on "CPAP dependency", sometimes called "CPAP addiction":
...Paragraphs of drivel....
P.S. Are any of you familiar with studies attempting to determine whether there is a casual relationship between CPAP use and CPAP dependency?

Reading up on things you don't understand.

Nobody gets 'dependent' or 'addicted' to CPAP any more than they get "dependent" or "addicted" to their EYEGLASSES.

[chunkyfrog]

My glasses, my hearing aid, my cane, my meds, a stepladder (I'm short)
Chimps are known to use tools--who is smarter than a chimpanzee?
Apparently not everyone . . .

[Goofproof]

My glasses, my hearing aid, my cane, my meds, a stepladder (I'm short)
Chimps are known to use tools--who is smarter than a chimpanzee?
Apparently not everyone . . .

Chimps do have one advantage, most of them can't read or repost! Jim

[chunkyfrog]

My glasses, my hearing aid, my cane, my meds, a stepladder (I'm short)
Chimps are known to use tools--who is smarter than a chimpanzee?
Apparently not everyone . . .

Chimps do have one advantage, most of them can't read or repost! Jim

You are smarter than them.