Full Face Masks

[Judith Murphy]

Hi there, APAP community . I've been using a nasal mask but my partner now says that sometimes I open my mouth during the night , so I'm going to try a full face mask . I've read the previous comments members have written and it appears that many members prefer either the Mirage Quattro (not air) or the Hans Rudolph 7600 v2. Have you any advise, general or specific, before I go ahead and buy? Thanks, as always, Judy from Australia.

[avi123]

Judith in Australia, to find a suitable FF mask is very individualistic and depends on the contour of the face. You need to try and try.
See here a list of top sellers:


https://www.cpap.com/cpap-masks/full-face-cpap-mask.php

[2 B Sleeping Soundly]

Hi Judy,

I just want to throw out the idea that if the Nasal mask is working fine for you except for your opening of your mouth, have you tried any chin strap products, a neck collar, or tried taping your mouth? If you search on the forum using any of those items you will get a lot of information to ponder. I am not trying to deter you from exploring the Full face masks as a lot of people have good success with them, but just didn't want you give up on a working Nasal mask just because of the opening your mouth .

John

[zoocrewphoto]

I use the Quattro FX which has been great for me. I was lucky as my sleep tech picked it for me. I requested a full face mask, but she picked the brand and model mask, and she fitted it so well that during the titration phase, I rolled over and woke up 5 hours later. This mask does take some mastery to get the fit right consistently, even if it is a good match. It took me 6 weeks to pretty much master (I still have some nights where it takes multiple times, but usually I have it right on the first or second try). Again, I was lucky, because I knew it fit because of the sleep tech. Otherwise, I would have given up on it and tried other masks.

I did try a mirage liberty back in my early days to see how it worked as I know I don't use my nose at all at night. I was hoping I could plug the nasal pillows or just have them in place and ignore them. But they really bothered my nose.

I have recently gotten the oracle which is a mouth only mask and not for most people. I have not mastered it yet, but I can tell I like it. So, I am trying it once a week or so to get some practice with it while having mostly good nights with my trusty quattro fx. I would not recommend this mask for most people since it does rely entirely on the mouth. It also requires me to have my mouth more open than I am used to. But the good things are no headgear, no leaks at all, and I can scratch my nose during the night.

[Judith Murphy]

Thank you all. Avi, the problem with trying several masks is that I don't think there is anywhere I can go in Tasmania, Australia to do this. Thank you sleeping soundly, I've considered the chin strap, haven't considered taping my mouth (that's a bit weird!!!). A lot of the time when I turn in my sleep the nasal mask looses it's tight connection and I wake up and need to re-position it. Thanks Zoocrewphoto, I'll add the Quattro FX to my short list. Any other suggestions would be most welcome. Cheers, Judy.

[Sheriff Buford]

I have recently gotten the oracle which is a mouth only mask and not for most people.

A while back... I think Avil suggested the oracle to me. It has always perked my interest. I THINK I would be successful with it because I suspect I rarely breath thru my nose. To me it's a weird mask and I'm reluctant to try it.

Dang.... got me thinking about it again.

Sheriff

[caffeinatedcfo]

I would try a chin strap or another nasal mask before i switched to full face. I hear good things about the new TAP PAP nasal pillow mask.

[enghelp]

FF masks are almost always harder to get a consistent seal on than nasal or pillows masks. This is because as you add more and more of the face you are trying to seal against the geometries between people get more and more different. I agree with the other members that if it is only an occasional open mouth you should try to find a way to keep the mouth closed. I have actually heard of lots of people that put small pieces of tape over their mouth at night but I would start with differnt chin straps first. There is more than 1 out there and each one acts a little different and they are pretty cheap to try out.

However, if I am going to answer your actual question, if my dad had to go on FF the very first one I would send him to get is the Quattro. Quattro FX and Full Life are to unstable,(but Full Life does have the under chin strap to preven riding up) and I just don't have the faith I wish I could in the Quattro air or the Amara. F&P FF masks seem to be polorizing to me, either you LOVE them or they are the biggest pieces of junk ever so I only go to them as a last resort to save time.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[MagsterMile]

If I have one draw back with the Hybrid mask is that sometimes I feel like the air is really too strong going up my nasals. I will then purposely breathe through my mouth to relieve the pressure. The Hybrid has a little shelf for your chin which does help a little with the chin drop. A lot of folks here are convinced that high pressure's shouldn't keep anyone from trying a nasal or nasal pillow mask but I'm not so sure about that. So many factors go into choosing your mask. It really is a learning process.

[Madalot]

F&P FF masks seem to be polorizing to me, either you LOVE them or they are the biggest pieces of junk ever so I only go to them as a last resort to save time.

I hear you and agree. People either love them or hate them.

The F&P 431 is the ONLY mask I have ever been able to use. I've tried Quattro's, Comfort Gels - you name it. The 431 is the only mask that seals okay (for me), stays put reasonably well (chin support is instrumental in this) and the clasp is one I CAN manipulate myself. Those darn ball & joint clasps are impossible for me and any mask using them is immediately ruled out because of it.

If F&P ever stops making the 431, I will be up the creek without a paddle for sure.

[Judith Murphy]

Thank you caffeinatedcfo. I'll have a look at the TAP PAP nasal pillow mask with a chin strap. Also thanks Enghelp for encouraging me to try the chin strap first before buying into the full mask. I'll add the Quattro to my short list is I decide to go with the full mask. And lastly, thank you MagsterMile for your comments. What did you mean by a Hybrid mask? If it's a nasal mask I agree that the air pressure on the nasal passage is quite strong - I just put up with it as part and parcel of having the machine??!! Thank you all, any further comments would be most appreciated.

[Sheriff Buford]

What did you mean by a Hybrid mask?

The industry refers a hybrid mask (the Mirage Liberty is probably the most popular) as a full face mask. The reason being is that they refer to a full face mask as a mask that covers both the nose and mouth.... so... the hybrid mask would fall under that category. But.... if you look at the hybrids, they are much different. They normally have a mouth piece (for mouth-breathers) and nasal pillows. In my opinion... much different than a full face. From my experience, this forum will never refer a hybrid mask as a full face.

Sheriff

[NateS]

Also thanks Enghelp for encouraging me to try the chin strap first before buying into the full mask. …… Thank you all, any further comments would be most appreciated.

Judith,

If you try a chinstrap, I would suggest trying one that has more than one anchorpoint on your head. My experience with many chinstraps I bought was that the head strap portion would slip out of place very quickly, rendering the support to the chin non-existent. The only two models I found that stayed in place on my head to hold the chin support portion in place were the Puresom Ruby and the papCap.

Another approach if the chinstrap won't stay in place is to dispense with it, and instead wear a foam neck collar at night, supporting the chin from below, and the foam collars are easily available and usually cost less than half what a chinstrap costs.

Regards, Nate

[Denial Dave]

as a minor precaution, if you have any form of TMJ, be careful with chin straps

Something about constricting the movement of the jaw aggrivated my TMJ really bad.

I tried chin straps for 2 nights and it caused major pain in my jaw for over a week.

Dave

[avi123]

FF masks are almost always harder to get a consistent seal on than nasal or pillows masks. This is because as you add more and more of the face you are trying to seal against the geometries between people get more and more different. I agree with the other members that if it is only an occasional open mouth you should try to find a way to keep the mouth closed. I have actually heard of lots of people that put small pieces of tape over their mouth at night but I would start with differnt chin straps first. There is more than 1 out there and each one acts a little different and they are pretty cheap to try out.

However, if I am going to answer your actual question, if my dad had to go on FF the very first one I would send him to get is the Quattro. Quattro FX and Full Life are to unstable,(but Full Life does have the under chin strap to preven riding up) and I just don't have the faith I wish I could in the Quattro air or the Amara. F&P FF masks seem to be polorizing to me, either you LOVE them or they are the biggest pieces of junk ever so I only go to them as a last resort to save time.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Comment,

As a Mechanical and a Biomedical Engineer I know that when using seals in machines, the longer the linear length of a seal, the longer the probabilities of leaks if you're talking about the same composition of the seal all along its length.

Resmed's (and a few others) masks, use an advanced technology of the double flaps on their cushions, whereby the outer flap overlap the inner layer. Any leak inside the inner layer needs to travel between these flaps to reach the atmospheric pressure.
The more the flaps, the better the sealing b/c each flap reduces the pressures gradient, to a certain degree.

Here is a sketch showing the principal behind this technique in a Labyrinth seal used to seal rotating shafts:



From my experience, I know that the Fisher & Paykel full face masks #431 and #432 DON"T use such technique and thus I found them to be inferior leakage wise.