Sleep Apnea, to treat or not to treat!!!

[lbw]

All I can say is that since starting CPAP almost a yr ago, blood pressure is down, no more snoring, energy level is up. Snoring is not normal. I agree that you are in denial. Lot easy to deny then take responsibility for your health

[NotMuffy]

It must go without saying from a few recent posts that many on this forum never ever eat too much, exercise too little, chat on a cell phone while driving, exceed posted speed limits, much less participates in any risky sport. Risks that could kill us are all around and we all pick and choose. Phil

Y'know Phil, I think you're more interested in finding someone to agree with what you've already decided so that you can feel justified in your decision. Well sorry, son, it ain't gonna be me.

[SleepingUgly]

If I were your wife, Phil, I'd kick you and your snoring @$$ out of the bedroom! The fact that you say she "tolerates" your snoring, rather than that it doesn't bother her at all, and that is good enough for you, would be reason enough for me to kick you out.

[DoriC]

It must go without saying from a few recent posts that many on this forum never ever eat too much, exercise too little, chat on a cell phone while driving, exceed posted speed limits, much less participates in any risky sport. Risks that could kill us are all around and we all pick and choose. Phil

Y'know Phil, I think you're more interested in finding someone to agree with what you've already decided so that you can feel justified in your decision. Well sorry, son, it ain't gonna be me.

So I signed the permission slip to let my son play football in high school and I bought my granddaughter a fancy,schmansy cell phone. Does that make me a bad mother and grandma? Phil, I'm sorry to say you've got your thinking all screwed up. You may be more sleep deprived than you know. BTW, I just noticed your statistics, you're 6'0 and 150lbs? I'm not a doctor but I think you're underweight.

[cyklopps]

My sincere apology to anyone I have offended!!! I do not want to offend anyone. There have been numerous comments made here that tilt me toward trying CPAP and I think this is a good discussion. But it is hard to take some of the insults and attacks that I doubt any of you would make if this were not anonymous and you really knew me. i respect all of you on your own journeys. Phil

[SleepingUgly]

My sincere apology to anyone I have offended!!! I do not want to offend anyone. There have been numerous comments made here that tilt me toward trying CPAP and I think this is a good discussion. But it is hard to take some of the insults and attacks that I doubt any of you would make if this were not anonymous and you really knew me. i respect all of you on your own journeys. Phil

I apologize for my comments to you. I'm sure it's possible, even likely, that you aren't as self-centered in real life as you came across in your post. Yes, we all engage in risky behaviors all the time. So if you understand that by not treating your OSA you're engaging in a risky behavior, and your wife agrees with your decision, then it sounds like it's down to a quality of life issue--FOR HER. I still don't understand why you don't just stick with the oxygen. Do you snore on oxygen?

[DoriC]

Phil, I also apologize for sounding so harsh, you hit a nerve, but I meant no harm. I'm just very passionate about wanting you and everyone with sleep apnea to get the best treatment available and have a long, healthy life.

[Pugsy]

You know I thought about what you said about risky behavior. Yes, many of us do but we wouldn't if we knew an accident might occur because of it. We don't know do we? Well same thing about lack of cpap treatment, we don't have a crystal ball to see what would happen if we did without. We know the risks that we have been told but we don't know for sure if one of those risks might materialize. Heck we could get the best cpap treatment and have that car accident that wasn't our fault. Bad things happen to other people, we are often surprised when it happens to us. I nearly died when a kid drove through a stop sign into the passenger door where I was sitting. Even getting in a car can be risky. Don't have to speed or be inattentive. Life in general just has its risks. I choose to limit the risks that I have control over by using the cpap machine. I don't love it. I don't even like it to be honest. I look at that machine every night and often say I don't want to do this tonight but I do.

I once had an older friend whose wife had a bad stroke. Everything had to be done for her. Feeding, bathing, butt wiping, everything.... She could barely talk. She was 64 when the stroke hit. She wasn't fat, she was a beautiful woman full of life, she was active snow bird traveled all over the place. One of the things that she did make great pains to say was "I don't want to live like this" It was very difficult for her to speak. She was this way for 4 years till another big stroke hit. They revived her again, on life support and the rest of her brain was a vegetable.
Her husband and I talked about what she had said about living like this, she didn't want it, so they let her go.

I don't want to have that stroke that comes up short and leaves me like that. I don't want my family members to have to make the decision to pull the plug on me. I don't want to be crippled in a wheelchair with someone having to feed me, wash my butt and all that stuff. I don't have any guarantees that it still won't be in my future but I will use that damn machine every night if there is the smallest chance that it will prevent me from having to become that type of burden to my family.

This particular OSA life threatening risk is an unknown risk, but I can still do something about it now by treating it the best I can now with that damn machine. It is something I choose to do to limit whatever risks I might have. No sense in going looking for risks, we have enough right here that we can't have any impact on. My greatest fear isn't death. It is when death comes up short. When I don't have my mind, when I don't have my legs or when I can't do the things I love. So even if using the cpap machine did nothing to help be feel better tomorrow, I would still use it because I fear that heart attack or stroke that comes up short more than I dislike the machine.

It is your choice of course but would it hurt to give it 3 months out of your life to see if it is as awful as you think it is?
You could always have the permanent fix, tracheotomy. Some people do elect to choose that surgery.

[Jersey Girl]

Phil,

My dad was diagnosed in his 60's with obstructive sleep apnea. He couldn't tolerate the mask (felt claustrophobic) and back then they did not have all the neat comfort items that we have now. My dad developed type II diabetes, hardening of the arteries and at age 71 dropped dead in his bathroom of a sudden massive heart attack or stroke (we never did find out which).

Fast forward to me...at age 40 diagnosed as "pre-diabetic". I was tired - fatigued...never knew why. Age 45 fully diabetic and heart arythmias...fatigue is worse and I keep going to the endo for blood work. Not anemic, don't have mono, nothing really wrong. Age 48 comes along...I was about to have a surgery and my surgeon insists on my having a sleep study. I ask him why because my husband says that I sleep fine - he doesn't hear me stop breathing. But, since he would not operate on me without one, because he didn't want any surprises while I was under anesthesia, I went and had my sleep study. And, I was diagnosed with OSA. They recommended cpap treatment. I knew that my dad could not tolerate it and I had the same feelings of being claustrophic as him. But, I went for my titration and got on this forum and learned how to sleep with a mask and a hose. I looked upon it as my machine giving me life saving air. Although my desats only went down to 88%, it was enough for me. I knew from losing my dad what could happen....over time, and I decided that I was going to learn to do this. Oh, and my Uncle, my dad's younger brother has OSA as well but he sleeps with his nasal mask and hose and enjoys much better health than my Dad. I got his advice also on learning to sleep with my mask...wearing it while reading a book for a short time, learning to feel safe with my mask on.

This forum taught me how to do this little by little, one night at a time. I now sleep well and wake up refreshed. I know that yes, I could die from other things, but I won't welcome those things either. I recently had a lump in my breast removed, as recommended, even though it was benign. I think that life is a precious gift and we need to live our lives to the fullest, taking care of our bodies and hopefully improving our quality of life so that we can make a difference in this world by helping others and loving our families and friends. Sleeping with a mask and hose is a learned skill. There are lots of folks here to help you along the way.

Please, don't end up like my dad. Give it a try....one day at a time...and when you have trouble, reach out to those here on the forum. You are guaranteed to receive helpful advice. It really is worth it!

Best regards,

Jersey Girl

[cyklopps]

Thanks Sleepingugly, DoriC, Jersey Girl and Pugsy for your comments. It was nice to wake up and read them. And thanks too for your real concern for me. I still do use the oxygen and would welcome some comments on my oximetry results as I may be interpreting them wrong. I included them in a post a few posts back.
Back to the risk topic. Last week, after spending a great day downhill skiing I came home and learned that the day before, a somewhat distant friend in his early 70's had died in a skiing accident on a trip with my ski club to Colorado. Kind of shook me up as I also scuba dive and that has its risks too. But I also realize that he died in the midst of doing something he loved and hope his loved ones see it that way too. Furthermore, despite being skinny, I love fried foods and struggle to keep eating them to a minimum. So I think we all deal with the risk benifit analysis of things we do and make tradeoffs throughout our lives. As I mentioned earlier, I do have a CPAP that I tried but need to get it adjusted for my personal situation.
What would make me unhappy were it to happen is the following. I am now sixty four and go with CPAP for the next twenty years. In 2032, new data comes out showing that for unsymptomatic Sleep Apnea patients with the kinds of numbers I have, (blood pressure, chlorestoral) , body type, etc. that they have found little correlation with the things we dread such as stroke and heart attack. These kinds of changes in medical viewpoint are not uncommen and have been happening for years. So this is why I am here trying to learn more. I like the kind of scientific data that you mentioned, Pugsy in an earlier post.
And finally, I am not in denial so no one needs to post that again. I may or may not end up on CPAP . Please debate me but do not attack me for continuing to ask questions. Phil

[NotMuffy]

What would make me unhappy were it to happen is the following. I am now sixty four and go with CPAP for the next twenty years. In 2032, new data comes out showing that for unsymptomatic Sleep Apnea patients with the kinds of numbers I have, (blood pressure, chlorestoral) , body type, etc. that they have found little correlation with the things we dread such as stroke and heart attack.

Won't help a lot if you stroke out in 2012, tho, will it?

..I am not in denial ...

No, not much.

[NotMuffy]

And before you get your panties in a bunch, understand that this is a CPAP Support forum. I'm sure everyone would rather not use therapy if they had the choice, whether to avoid the whole PITA that this entails, or simply the expense. Failure to comply is a huge problem with xPAP therapy, and you spreading unfounded doubts doesn't help. Instead of sitting there pissing and moaning, get off your DA and you do some research on what happens with long-term untreated SDB. Then you post it and I'll sit here and "debate" it.

[cyklopps]

Sorry if I have offended you Not Muffy. I did not intend to do that .Phil

[NotMuffy]

Sorry if I have offended you Not Muffy.

I am not offended.

I am "debating".

These are snorers:

[NotMuffy]

But hey, I've got time. Interestingly, I happen to be associated with a Certified-Stroke Center (now them Radiology guys drag in some major $$$ in stroke diagnostics), but this tidbit should really tickle the ol' funny bone:

About two-thirds (2/3) of stroke survivors have sleep-disordered breathing (SDB).

They All Come Home...Eventually