FREEDOM From Apnoea And Cpap Machine !!!!!

[Sillyme]

This is not about you and your experience with bipolar disorder. You're contributing to discrimination and bias against the mentally ill by chocking this all up to "crazy". And maybe "can't argue with crazy" helps you cope with what your loved one has put you through, but if I were your loved one, I'd find that statement offensive. Actually, in this context, I find it offensive anyway.

Hey - Can we just stop now. This is really getting ugly and I don't see that anyone is benefiting. There are around 2500 views for a subject that should have been put to bed in a page or two. Chopper, I don't believe you're a rep for the B-whatever method or you wouldn't have posted anything about having a mental illness. You seem to be dealing with that and I congratulate you but the fact that you just can't let this go makes me believe that you're a bit manic at present and I think you should give it a rest and come back in a month or two. You seem like a decent guy who genuinely wants to share what you're excited about, but it's not working. People who come to this board are dealing with CPAP issues, not looking for alternatives that are likely to benefit only a very few people. It would be a shame to see people who are struggling to adapt to this therapy get sidetracked by the promise of an easy way out. I think this is why you are getting so much hostility. But you keep coming back for more. Stop.
I don't think mreewh's remarks were offensive or dismissive. Those of us with loved ones who are bi-polar have learned not to beat around the bush. Manic depressives are some of the most interresting, creative and unpredictable people you will ever meet and should have a network of friends and family who can be blunt when necessary.
But this board isn't about mental illness. Lets get on to something else.

[chopper999]

This is not about you and your experience with bipolar disorder. You're contributing to discrimination and bias against the mentally ill by chocking this all up to "crazy". And maybe "can't argue with crazy" helps you cope with what your loved one has put you through, but if I were your loved one, I'd find that statement offensive. Actually, in this context, I find it offensive anyway.

Hey - Can we just stop now. This is really getting ugly and I don't see that anyone is benefiting. There are around 2500 views for a subject that should have been put to bed in a page or two. Chopper, I don't believe you're a rep for the B-whatever method or you wouldn't have posted anything about having a mental illness. You seem to be dealing with that and I congratulate you but the fact that you just can't let this go makes me believe that you're a bit manic at present and I think you should give it a rest and come back in a month or two. You seem like a decent guy who genuinely wants to share what you're excited about, but it's not working. People who come to this board are dealing with CPAP issues, not looking for alternatives that are likely to benefit only a very few people. It would be a shame to see people who are struggling to adapt to this therapy get sidetracked by the promise of an easy way out. I think this is why you are getting so much hostility. But you keep coming back for more. Stop.
I don't think mreewh's remarks were offensive or dismissive. Those of us with loved ones who are bi-polar have learned not to beat around the bush. Manic depressives are some of the most interresting, creative and unpredictable people you will ever meet and should have a network of friends and family who can be blunt when necessary.
But this board isn't about mental illness. Lets get on to something else.

Sleeping Ugly – Thank you for your elegant retort to Mreewh's ad hominem riddled post suggesting that I had among other things anosognosia and that I was unaware of actually being bi – polar {yeh sure gimme a break} - {simply divine to read}


Sillyme – You said –

{ People who come to this board are dealing with CPAP issues, not looking for alternatives that are likely to benefit only a very few people. It would be a shame to see people who are struggling to adapt to this therapy get sidetracked by the promise of an easy way out.}

That's just it Sillyme - it has been 'EASY' to practise the Butekyo method for my severe sleep apnoea and when you say people who come to this board are not looking for alternatives to CPAP that are likely to benefit only a very few people are you talking for the whole 50 odd thousand members already here as well - if so that's pretty assumptive don't you think?

By the way my class had 20 people in it and my teacher told me he teaches 40 people a month that's nearly 500 converts per year { Spreading the word about Butekyo } with a 90% to 95% success rate or your money back.

My God an enquiring mind is God's gift to us human beings without it civilization as we know it would not exist nor any great discoveries be made i.e. sonic flight, moon landings, computers, cars trans Atlantic crossing and the millions of other useful objects man has invented – where o where on earth would we be without an enquiring mind and nature.

To negate one's own enquiring mind is totally abhorrent and reduces man and his consciousnesses to the level of a lobotomized bipedal half-wit.


The reason I keep posting is only to reply to the people who keep attacking me that's all.

Have a great day I know I will – Chopper.

[Julie]

And that's it in a nutshell - the reason you keep coming back is because you've made your 100% belief in Buteyko statements and now, regardless of anyone's logic or other ideas, you feel you have to justify yours. Wouldn't it be amazing if you got off your defensive horse about now, ceded that some of us might also know a bit about breathing, Cpap, Buteyko and bipolar disorder? And that while you may be very happy about what you learned, it might not in the end (as with anything) turn out to be the only answer to life (or at least OSA)? We're killing ourselves here to try and help you because we're worried you might still have OSA without realizing it, so why not calm down a bit and meet us halfway? Show a little openmindedness and acknowledge that we might not all be wrong all of the time? Maybe we'll relax too then, and we can have a more rational, or at least civil conversation. We get that you think the technique is terrific, but having read (we do that too on occasion) many things about Buteyko - not all of them good by any means - we have a right to play Devil's advocate, and it could, just could, be a good idea if you took in some of what we're saying too. You may go on to have a great life without cpap, and that would be wonderful, but on the off chance that it doesn't happen, could you not just tone it down a bit too?

[mars]

Hello all ... I've not been very active here, but am painfully familiar with Bipolar Disorder. My significant other has it, is disabled by it, and I've participated for many years now in online and NAMI support groups for family members of those with Bipolar.

It's very, very common for someone who's manic to grab hold of an idea or belief and want to "share it with the world". Often this takes the form of great religious belief, but it could be an actual or theoretical money-making idea, a philosophical concept, a political belief, etc. Depending on the intelligence, perseverance, and charisma of the person, this could result in serious consequences for those who are involved. I personally know many family members who've been bankrupted, lost their home, lost their marriage, etc.

Bipolar Disorder is also a cognitive illness, not just a mood disorder, and those who have it often have anosognosia, which "is a condition in which a person who suffers disability seems unaware of or denies the existence of his or her disability" as described at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anosognosia.

We have some sayings in the support group ... "can't argue with crazy", "don't feed the beast", "it's not about you". Just thought I'd put those out here.

Hi mreewh

Good to read your supportive and useful post.

Thank you for sharing that.

I see that your support group is like many other support groups, in that you use affectionate but hard-hitting terminology with each other.

Misinterpreting peoples posts in order to pursue one's own predilections is nothing new on this forum. We all know that I have done it myself , and others have done it to me. No doubt it will happen again. However, I think you can be assured that most would have taken your post with the good will that you obviously intended.

cheers

Mars

[chopper999]

And that's it in a nutshell - the reason you keep coming back is because you've made your 100% belief in Buteyko statements and now, regardless of anyone's logic or other ideas, you feel you have to justify yours. Wouldn't it be amazing if you got off your defensive horse about now, ceded that some of us might also know a bit about breathing, Cpap, Buteyko and bipolar disorder? And that while you may be very happy about what you learned, it might not in the end (as with anything) turn out to be the only answer to life (or at least OSA)? We're killing ourselves here to try and help you because we're worried you might still have OSA without realizing it, so why not calm down a bit and meet us halfway? Show a little openmindedness and acknowledge that we might not all be wrong all of the time? Maybe we'll relax too then, and we can have a more rational, or at least civil conversation. We get that you think the technique is terrific, but having read (we do that too on occasion) many things about Buteyko - not all of them good by any means - we have a right to play Devil's advocate, and it could, just could, be a good idea if you took in some of what we're saying too. You may go on to have a great life without cpap, and that would be wonderful, but on the off chance that it doesn't happen, could you not just tone it down a bit too?

Julie –


· Reading about Butekyo failings {please post links by the way} won't prove anything you have to find out for yourself weather it works or not – just as I can say cpap has a 50% failure rate IT STILL WORKS THOUGH for the other 50 % who use it.

· Julie said - And that while you may be very happy about what you learned, it might not in the end (as with anything) turn out to be the only answer to life (or at least OSA)?

· My reply – I never said Buteyko was the only answer to OSA !!! – And I never said I was against the use of cpap machines what I did say was here look this Butekyo is an alternative treatment for you to try for Your OSA - that is it is for the other 50% of people WHO GIVE UP on using cpap and for others wanting to come off cpap THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF PEOPLE still looking for answers to their still active OSA – What is your answer for them people Julie ????

· By the way my Butekyo class consisted of a 95% volume of people already on cpap wanting to come off it and try a new method.

· Julie said - We're killing ourselves here to try and help you because we're worried you might still have OSA without realizing it, so why not calm down a bit and meet us halfway?

· My reply – I have already said I would have another sleep study in the near future.

· If some people on this forum know about Bi – Polar all I can say is good for you the more informed you are the better you will be {Knowledge is power as they say} however all I am concerned about is taking my meds on time and remaining stabilised i.e. NOT MANIC

· Sleep Log: - 15th day - 10 hours sleep – woke up like yesterday – No brain fog – no tiredness or exhaustion – no headaches got up twice to go to toilet during night but I did drink a liter of milk before going to bed.



Have a great day I know I will - Chopper.

[chopper999]

Hey Mars do you still wanna take me up on the offer of coming around to my house staying the night and running an oximeter on me for some truth revealing data.

I am all for it - just send me an email if you want to do it.

p.s. As far as mreewh's bi - polar post goes - ya know what they taught ya in A.A. that old saying - opinons are like ass&*oles everbody got one.

Have a great day I konw I will - Chopper.

p.p.s. By the way I am also a friend of Bill W - yep that's right not only am I 'Bi-polar and schizopherinic' I am also a friend of Bill W have been for 15 years now 1 day at a time and what is it they say about the alcoholic ' he can't stay sober for very long unless he gets honest and stays honest so for me to be lying in any of my posts on this forum is totally against the principles of my sobriety and the A.A. way of life - 12 Steps ect.

[ozij]

p.s. As far as mreewh's bi - polar post goes - ya know what they taught ya in A.A. that old saying - opinons are like ass&*oles everbody got one.

That seems true of what you're telling us about your opinion of Buteyko too. Thank you, chopper for spending so much time sharing your opinion.

I don't know about you chopper, but I do my best to use my my brain when producing my opinions -- everyone's got one of those too.

Friends, please let chopper have the last word on this thread --

Have a very nice day, chopper. Your opinion rings loud and clear, and you are welcome to it.
O.

[chopper999]

p.s. As far as mreewh's bi - polar post goes - ya know what they taught ya in A.A. that old saying - opinons are like ass&*oles everbody got one.

That seems true of what you're telling us about your opinion of Buteyko too. Thank you, chopper for spending so much time sharing your opinion.

I don't know about you chopper, but I do my best to use my my brain when producing my opinions -- everyone's got one of those too.

Friends, please let chopper have the last word on this thread --

Have a very nice day, chopper. Your opinion rings loud and clear, and you are welcome to it.
O.

ozi -

Your dead right my opinion is just like anyone elses { I did not say you could trust it - I only said as far as I was concerned I was not lying in my posts } - and like I have said in my previous posts a person needs to try out Butekyo for themselves to see if it will work for them or not and if not - they get their money back - so whats the big deal about trying out Butekyo can you answer me that ?

Have a nice day I know I will - Chopper.

[Breathe Jimbo]

and around and around we go....

[roster]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56382&p=528579#p528579

[adksleepygal]

Well I think I found freedom from cpap - do what I did - just return the machine and the rest of the paraphanalia - its working fine for me and I am finally getting some sleep again - they made me sign some form to cover their butts I suppose but that is ok - this is my life. Its so wonderful to go to bed and curl up in my pillow again without some kind of plastic up against my nose - yucko! Or the sounds of air blowing somewhere to wake me up - or the noise of some humming in my ear; to say nothing of all the extra work involved everyday to clean this thing properly - check water levels, etc... - my hubby hated it more than I did . If you are like me do what I did - give it a fair and open-minded trial and see how you do. Maybe its for you - maybe not. At least I tried this out and gave it my best shot. No one should be judged for deciding how they wish to live their life. For me - a breathing machine was just not natural and I am a freedom loving person. So if they are right and I am going to die sooner or something like they tried to scare me with - what is so bad about that? I just get to go to heaven - now who can argue with that one? Nothing about living life here on earth is perfect for sure. That is why they call it life .

[BlackSpinner]

Well I think I found freedom from cpap - do what I did - just return the machine and the rest of the paraphanalia - its working fine for me and I am finally getting some sleep again - they made me sign some form to cover their butts I suppose but that is ok - this is my life. Its so wonderful to go to bed and curl up in my pillow again without some kind of plastic up against my nose - yucko! Or the sounds of air blowing somewhere to wake me up - or the noise of some humming in my ear; to say nothing of all the extra work involved everyday to clean this thing properly - check water levels, etc... - my hubby hated it more than I did . If you are like me do what I did - give it a fair and open-minded trial and see how you do. Maybe its for you - maybe not. At least I tried this out and gave it my best shot. No one should be judged for deciding how they wish to live their life. For me - a breathing machine was just not natural and I am a freedom loving person. So if they are right and I am going to die sooner or something like they tried to scare me with - what is so bad about that? I just get to go to heaven - now who can argue with that one? Nothing about living life here on earth is perfect for sure. That is why they call it life .

No you will probably have a stroke or get dementia and the people who will have to wipe your ass will curse you for your stupidity.

[SleepingUgly]

I think the proverbial $#!& is about to hit the fan...

[LoQ]

I think the proverbial $#!& is about to hit the fan...

Well until you said that I was thinking I wanted popcorn, but NOT NOW!

[billbolton]

For me - a breathing machine was just not natural...

Elsewhere on CPAPtalk you wrote....

I already do take Klonopin to relax me at night to sleep and have for years

... and clonazepam is equally just not natural.

• Before taking Klonopin, tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver disease, glaucoma, any breathing problems, or a history of depression, suicidal thoughts, or addiction to drugs or alcohol.
  - http://www.drugs.com/klonopin.html

Please be very careful!

Cheers,

Bill