Muffy To Present CpapTalk "Views Per Hour Award" To Mars

[DreamStalker]

One caution, don't get caught up in trying to educate the few cynical socialists who have nothing better to do than post crap and personal attacks here.

I just really cannot believe that you are not participating in collecting those "cynical" social security checks. Uh uh.



I do hope you find something better to do though. Good luck.

I think the stupidity rate of the American population is a far worse problem than the US health care system

F*** off.

Now now don't go and blow a bolt out of your head ... bad enough that you have software problems ... a hardware problem will only increase the cost of the F'd up health system.

[Bob3000]

Bob3000,

Excellent summary!

Very glad to see there are young people who understand how this country was built into the most productive nation in history. Make sure you go to the polls. It is true that a lot of our voting has to be for the lesser of evils, but still important to do it.

One caution, don't get caught up in trying to educate the few cynical socialists who have nothing better to do than post crap and personal attacks here.

I have one or two more things to do with my CPAP therapy and after that will be here only occasionally to catch up on the latest equipment news.

Good points. I don't mind the debate, it can be fun. Personal attacks don't bother me, I just reply in kind.

This forum is a bit vicious, maybe because we're all so sleep-deprived.

[DreamStalker]

Bob3000,

Excellent summary!

Very glad to see there are young people who understand how this country was built into the most productive nation in history. Make sure you go to the polls. It is true that a lot of our voting has to be for the lesser of evils, but still important to do it.

One caution, don't get caught up in trying to educate the few cynical socialists who have nothing better to do than post crap and personal attacks here.

I have one or two more things to do with my CPAP therapy and after that will be here only occasionally to catch up on the latest equipment news.

Good points. I don't mind the debate, it can be fun. Personal attacks don't bother me, I just reply in kind.

This forum is a bit vicious, maybe because we're all so sleep-deprived.

Speak for yourself. Some of us sleep just fine thanks to this forum.

Stick around and you too can reap the benefits of this social network.

Silly robot

[billbolton]

It's very unlikely that the amount you paid into the system will be greater than the amount you will take out over the course of your life, unless you are wealthy.

How do you know how likely or unlikely that is for Australia Here's a clue, Australia is NOT like the USA (thank goodness).

If you look at the five year survival rate after being diagnosed with cancer, which is accepted by medical professionals as one of the best ways of guaguing quality of care..

Actually its not accepted by the medical profession as a whole. It is just one data point in a vast array of healthcare delivery data.

The vast majority of important medical papers are written and published in the US

No, they certainly are not. Your gingoistoc view of advances in healthcare is way out of line with WHO data.

[Roman Hokie]

I just hope you remember who invented the cpap machine whilst you two are busy being hypocrites and liars.

Mars, do you know who invented the telephone? No fair looking it up on Wikipedia. No, the man credited (incorrectly) with inventing the phone is A. G. Bell. He took someone else's invention and IMPROVED upon it.

Yes, just because you can claim a bloke from your homeland invented it doesn't mean that it was effective or efficient at that time.

Go have a Foster's. (and yes, I know how you Aussies describe it being canned).

[montana]

I was on a plane to Australia and it was during the presidential election...anyway I was sitting next to and older Australian gentleman.. He was asking what I felt about the USA election coming up. He said he loved the USA but could not understand how our fine country did not have some sort of universal health care. I told him I knew in my heart whoever got in ( Hillary or Barack ) would change our heath care system for the better. He told me how he loved his healthcare system and would never ever go back.I think he said they changed it in the 70s.

I also told him it would not happen overnight at home because many were afraid to change for whatever reason. I had just started medicare at that time. Down under they call it medicare too.
It will take time folks ..we will go kicking and screaming into a better system BUT it WILL be OK.... Do not fret.

[unadog]

I am not sure about the value of entering into this discussion, but ...

When I look at comparitive statistics on health care, the US is not usually ranked first on most measures among developed countries, especially if we start without ideological suppositions about what we will find.

It seems to me that we spend about twice as much as most nations as a percentage of GDP on health care, with results that don't measure up to those of many other countries. And that is with us covering a much smaller percentage of the population than most countries.

That seems to be true as I look at a number of major measures of the quality of health care by country. For example, this measure of infant mortality (deaths during the first year of life after live birth) comes from the CIA:

This entry gives the number of deaths of infants under one year old in a given year per 1,000 live births in the same year; included is the total death rate, and deaths by sex, male and female. This rate is often used as an indicator of the level of health in a country.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 1rank.html

The United States seems to come in somewhere in the 30's in many comparisons, depending on the number of countries included (I think they were about 44th here.) Japan, Sigapore, Finland, France, Spain and others consistently seem to rank highly on a broad number of measures.

The CIA numbers on life expectancy are also interesting, with the US ranked 44th.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 2rank.html

The US also seemns to have about a 40% satisfactoin rate with it's health care system on various studies, with the best ranked coountries reaching 90%, and many countries ranked at 60% or more.

It seems that antecdotal examples and cherry picking specific statistics you can find support for just about any position in something as complex as this. For whatever reason, folks in the US semm to just assume that we are "the best" in most areas, when the statistics don't seem to back that up. It might be worthwhile to look at the systems in some of the consistently best ranked countries to see what we can learn, aside from any presuppositions.

[wlenz]

Sounds like a few people cheering for their home team and yelling at the away team. Let's face it, The United
States, Canada, Australia, England, etc. are all great countries to live and, and visit. One of my desires is to visit Australia before I leave this planet. Always liked what I heard about it. I have worked with Brits and Canadians and recently a lovely girl from down under. I have always found them to be very pleasant people. But, I root for my home team. The medical system hear could use some fine tweaking, but it is good. It could be better, but to get there, we must use our heads and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I want to improve what is great about our system and cut away the bad parts. I did not see any helpful suggestions, just a little yelling and screaming at the opposing team. My country has been very generous in this world community. I am very proud to be an American. And, if I ever get the chance to visit your homeland, let's have a beer together and share some good times.
Bill

[mars]

Hi Bill and Everyone

For something that started out as a feel-good post about my dental treatment, it sure morphed into something different.

I have avoided every discussion of the American Healthcare system that has been on this forum, but foolishly responded to the bait that Bob3000 set out for me. I acknowledge that failing on my part.

What they did was not

Bill - Sounds like a few people cheering for their home team and yelling at the away team.

It was lies and misrepresentation, and so I foolishly responded again, getting further into the quagmire.

Then I stopped, and others took up the challenge.

The only people who got hurt were the Forum members who continue to lurk because they are worried that if they post, something similar will happen to them. They are the true casualties of the lies of So Well and Bob3000.

I am at fault for getting sucked in, but my halo sometimes gets out of joint, especially when I am lied about, and especially from such hypocrites as those two.

So the fact is that whilst we have those who maliciously denigrate fair dinkum posts, then some OSA sufferers will not feel free to post their questions, and get the help they need.

And challenging blatant dishonesty is the only way to make sure the liars and hypocrites do not get a free ride, and maybe, just maybe, if enough people challenge them, they will see that being helpful is much more rewarding than being a spoiler.

And, if I ever get the chance to visit your homeland, let's have a beer together and share some good times.
Bill

Love to have a beer with you Bill, non-alcoholic for me of course. If anyone thinks I am off the planet now, you really do not want to see me when I drink

And I have such a lovely Dentist

cheers

Mars

[So Well]

Mars,

I would certainly enjoy a non-alcoholic beer with you on my next trip.

But I am going to expect you to pay since you let it slip about that $1477 you are "selfishly" hoarding.

[wakemeupb4yougogo]

Can't we all just get along?

[wlenz]

But I am going to expect you to pay since you let it slip about that $1477 you are "selfishly" hoarding.

Makes sense to me. I am looking forward to more than one. That $1477 should quench the thirst for quite a few of us.

[Bob3000]

How do you know how likely or unlikely that is for Australia Here's a clue, Australia is NOT like the USA (thank goodness).

In Australia, the wealthy pay most of the taxes, just like in the US.

Actually its not accepted by the medical profession as a whole. It is just one data point in a vast array of healthcare delivery data.

It's one of the best "data points". Not the best, not end all be all, but one of the best. Actually, comorbidity is being increasingly found to negatively impact survival, even with aggressive cancer. This is surprising because conventional wisdom was that your cancer will kill you before your underlying diabetes or COPD will, but in fact more recent evidence suggests otherwise. Thus, controlling for comorbidities, which is primarily a function of genetics and cultural/social forces, is necessary. That's why saying something like 'the average life-expectancy in country X is greater than Y, thus X has a better health care system than Y' is apples to oranges.

Your gingoistoc view of advances in healthcare is way out of line with WHO data.

Slow down there, I am not a radical nationalist. I don't believe that the US is the only legit country or think every other nation needs to worship at our feet. But it is a fact that the US has the largest health care system by dollars, the largest research investment by dollars, and thus produces the majority of the academic and industry output in the area of medical technology. It doesn't mean Australians don't put out quality work, but the stagnancy of the state-run system prevents it from delivering the full potential of technological advances a free market medical economy can (and does).

It will take time folks ..we will go kicking and screaming into a better system BUT it WILL be OK.... Do not fret.

As long as we have Hope©, right!

This rate is often used as an indicator of the level of health in a country

Again, the level of health in a country is primarily determined by factors entirely outside the realm of modern medicine. Studies on topics ranging from smoking cessation to weight loss to drug addiction - i.e. the underlying, driving forces behind the top killers in AMerica - have found that health care professionals only have minor influence on these factors. Implementing the most socialist universal health care program you can imagine is not going to change the fact that Americans make lifestyle choices that are in direct opposition to healthy living.

It's the culture, silly.

For something that started out as a feel-good post about my dental treatment, it sure morphed into something different.

Quit feigning innocence. It wasn't a feel-good post, you were flame baiting.

I have avoided every discussion of the American Healthcare system that has been on this forum, but foolishly responded to the bait that Bob3000 set out for me. I acknowledge that failing on my part.

Actually, I was dead serious. Unless you are in the upper class (financially), you owe your health care services to evil, greedy capitalist pigs. Ironic, no?

It was lies and misrepresentation, and so I foolishly responded again, getting further into the quagmire.

I don't claim to be all-knowing, so certainly I can unintentionally post inaccurate information, but I have not and would not intentionally deceive you or anyone else on this board.

They are the true casualties of the lies of So Well and Bob3000.

Melodramatic much? I haven't lied. I may be wrong (doubt it) but I haven't intentionally misled or lied about anything. No reason to.

...especially from such hypocrites as those two.

I've no clue how you concluded that I was a hypocrite.

And challenging blatant dishonesty is the only way to make sure the liars and hypocrites do not get a free ride,

I've been called a liar, an idiot, a hypocrite, and probably more in this thread. You can read my previous post for my response to your personal attacks.

[billbolton]

In Australia, the wealthy pay most of the taxes, just like in the US.

Oh, I've been sucked in by yet another troll... mea culpa!

[dsm]

Mars & Bill

One lesson from this forum is do not get into an Aussie vs USA (this or that) debate. I have
(hopefully) learned this lesson.

You as an Aussie might only win any such them n us debates if the forum is based in
Australia - else - if based in the US you will only win by default or luck or lack of interest.

We humans do tend to be parochial and it is fully understandable, so triggering any such
line of debate where it turns into Aussies apparently being critical of US systems or our
US friends apparently being critical of Aussie systems, is doomed to general failure even
if individuals feel they won their points.

Mars, I gotta say you stirred up a no-win situation when none was necessary.


Cheers your Aussie mate

DSM