Goodbye Resmed. Prices double 9/4/06

[wading thru the muck!]

ResMed invested the R&D, the manufacturing and the marketing, the sales visits to homecare companies and sleep labs to gain acceptance of their products. They should now let anyone who feels like putting up a web site skim the profit from their products? I don't blame them. The idea was to work with companies that have 24 hour service and can provide follow up to users, not someone brokering the devices over the web like somone selling toothbrushes.

This internet business has already had a terrible effect on cpap reimbursement and on what each of you must pay out of pocket. Insurance companies and homecare providers use the internet prices as the start of their negotiations with the manufacturers. The internet sellers have virtually no costs, and provide no service.

ResMed is doing the right thing. Here's hoping respironics and the others follow suit.

Thanks for your input Mr. Evil DME. Apparently you make your comments without any knowledge about what the internet retailers are actually doing.

The way you characterize the internet retailers and the "homecare" companies is completely false. I do not know of ANY local DMEs that provide 24 hour service. Their customers are lucky to get a return call in 24 hours. The service and support that I have received from my internet provider has far exceeded any need that I might have.

I suggest you check your facts before you make these claims.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, resmed, CPAP, DME

[tooly125]

not someone brokering the devices over the web like somone selling toothbrushes.

The only thing I hate more than toothbrush salesmen are web based toothbrush salesmen!

Resmed can do what they want just not with my money because they will never get a nother dime out of me!

[sthnreb]

How long have you worked for Resmed? My DME only took my money. They gave me no support and furnished a discontinued model they were trying to get rid of too! They wanted my insurance to pay rent for the machine from now on. They offered me no choice in a machine. (The Internet does.) They offered me no choice in a nasal mask. (The Internet let's you purchase what you want, and not what your DME wants to unload.) You're evidently not consumer oriented, rather company and profit. What's right about jacking a price up and making over 400% profit? In thousands of dollars per machine, that's about $3000 extra profit per machine compared to Internet. What does a DME offer that is worth $3000 over Internet? A phone call? I know, it is right for the seller but woe for the consumer........

My experience, DME $3400 for discontinued, used machine through the DME. Internet $1500 for latest model and not used for rental. I rented the discontinued model before my insurance ran out, they offered no discount for previous payments...and the sale price was for $3400. I apologize for even responding to this posting to those of you who are like me and have to use this equipment and seek a decent affordable price.

[completelyhosed]

Maskmeister, you write with strong generalizations. If you wish to have a useful dialog, you are very welcome. We are not children here. We have personal experience with DME and internet providers. Frankly, we are not swayed by your post. You did neither its readers nor yourself any favor. Try again.

[Wulfman]

ResMed invested the R&D, the manufacturing and the marketing, the sales visits to homecare companies and sleep labs to gain acceptance of their products. They should now let anyone who feels like putting up a web site skim the profit from their products? I don't blame them. The idea was to work with companies that have 24 hour service and can provide follow up to users, not someone brokering the devices over the web like somone selling toothbrushes.

This internet business has already had a terrible effect on cpap reimbursement and on what each of you must pay out of pocket. Insurance companies and homecare providers use the internet prices as the start of their negotiations with the manufacturers. The internet sellers have virtually no costs, and provide no service.

ResMed is doing the right thing. Here's hoping respironics and the others follow suit.

I think I know what your problem is. You've suffered from a serious case of OSA and slept through all of your Econ and Business classes.

It's obvious that you don't understand wholesaling, retailing, business models and customer service.
At some point, these companies have decided on their wholesale prices for their products (which include their R&D, manufacturing and marketing costs). Whatever overhead and profit margins the retailer has is immaterial to the manufacturer......because the manufacturer has gotten THEIR profit out of the products when they're sold to the retailer.

Den

[Darth Vader Look]

Maskmeister obviously isn't business 101 oriented. Maybe you should read that new dummies book, Business 101 for Dummies.

Whatever overhead and profit margins the retailer has is immaterial to the manufacturer......because the manufacturer has gotten THEIR profit out of the products when they're sold to the retailer.

I couldn't have said it better Den. Now if only Maskmeister can absorb this fundamental of business. .

[Maskmeister]

Thank you for the enjoyable reading. I was glad to read about everything I don't know. Having OSA must also include a psychic component, as you all profess to know me so well.

I do not work for ResMed or any other CPAP manufacturer. I do not work for a DME. But enough about me.

Used to be that CPAPs were sold for $4000. Thise days are long gone. Insurance companies now purchase them (or rent them to the purchase price). Sleep labs in many communities make demands for follow up of the local DME that make the case a money-loser for the DME. This is a result of the reimbursement being slashed. The #1 reason for this? Internet sellers. They have no investment in the operations, bricks and mortar, etc. of the manufacturer or the DME. Anyone can sell medical equipment out of their garage on eBay if they want to. When you are an equipment broker, you don't need much margin because it is a pass-thru sale for you. No billing, no accepting assignment, no co-pays, it is an easy business to get into.

Price competition is fine, however the majority of the peoiple using the equipment do have insurance. The prices offered by the online sellers have had a devastating effect on the DME. They always provided CPAP and all of the other services (billing, supply, accreditation by state and national authorities, clinical support) and saw the dollars that paid for them go away. Any wonder why DME's don't provide the services that they used to? They can't afford to. CPAP has gone from in-home set ups and follow ups by a respiratory therapist to "come in and get it" set ups and zero follow up.

The internet sellers are opportunists that have irreversable damaged the way CPAP is procured. This has resulted in OSA being treated as a "throwaway diagnosis" by the insurance companies. Pay as little as possible because the patient won't use it anyway, and move on. No disease management (as there is with diabetes), just run as cheaply as possible.

The CPAP manufacturers erred when they agreed to sell equipment to the internet sellers. It was a foolish move, and kudos to ResMed for doing something about it. As for price fixing, have you ever found a deal on Bose headphones? There is no law against protecting a price point. The internet sellers can play the victim (like Mr. Petersen), but it simply does not wash. ResMed was not founded so he could become a millionaire brokering their products.

But then, I don't know anything about any of this. No hard feelings intended.

[completelyhosed]

Maskmeister, do you see any value in this website? It is sponsered by an internet retailer. In my opinion, this is a wonderful place where patients get the best cpap education on the planet. What is your opinion?

[byront]

Maskmeister - your clearly full of CPAP!!! Oop! - Sorry, had a typo - that first P was supposed to be an R. I currently have no insurance, primarily because I cannot afford it right now - primarily because of such extremely high insurance rates - primarily because of all the raping going on by doctors, hospitals, dme, etc... that drive up said insurance rates. Had it not been for the FAIR pricing found on the internet I would not be feeling the relief of cpap therapy I am experiencing today. But frankly, ResMed and the dme's do not care whatsoever about that - in fact they resent it because they were not given the opportunity to get their evil greedy filthy mitts into my pocket! I believe that this whole thing is actually being instigated by the dme's. Who else stands to profit from this? I think the dme forces have gone to the manufacturers with their bellyaching about internet prices and have offered to push Resmed products if ResMed will start the pushout of internet sales/pricing. I imagine that the patient is directed to a dme immediately after sleep studies - and not additionally given a list of online sites to also consider. I know I was, I was given a one page list of dme's. This is their leverage. Which is why I am assuming that the dme's are getting the majority of sales and which is also why Resmed is really not concerned about us. If this thing is going to be nipped in the bud then somehow people with insurance are going to have to flat out refuse ResMed products and somehow the word is going to have to get out to the general public about this whole issue so if someone does get diagnosed they are already aware of other options and don't end up unknowingly supporting a way of business that's sole purpose is to make the rich richer and the poor poorer - or dead. They real don't care one way or the other! Unfortunately because of these reasons I think there may be a chance that ResMed succeeds. In any case unless Respironics jumps on, I will be buying strictly from them or any others who have not joined in with ResMed. ResMed will not see one penny of mine! These corrupted business tactics are proliferating in America and all over the world today - the rich are getting grossly wealthy and the poor just can't get buy. Families are literally starving and homeless because of the excessive greed of these people and business's. Money truly and literally IS their God! It really all boils down to good vs evil and about all us good folks can do is get in their faces and stay there - and maybe smack em' down whenever given the chance. Don't buy ResMed and spread the word beyond this board. My two cents. - BT

[wading thru the muck!]

Thank you for the enjoyable reading. I was glad to read about everything I don't know. Having OSA must also include a psychic component, as you all profess to know me so well.

I do not work for ResMed or any other CPAP manufacturer. I do not work for a DME. But enough about me.

(1)Used to be that CPAPs were sold for $4000. Thise days are long gone. Insurance companies now purchase them (or rent them to the purchase price). Sleep labs in many communities make demands for follow up of the local DME that make the case a money-loser for the DME. This is a result of the reimbursement being slashed. The #1 reason for this? Internet sellers. They have no investment in the operations, bricks and mortar, etc. of the manufacturer or the DME. (2)Anyone can sell medical equipment out of their garage on eBay if they want to. When you are an equipment broker, you don't need much margin because it is a pass-thru sale for you. No billing, no accepting assignment, no co-pays, it is an easy business to get into.

(3)Price competition is fine, however the majority of the peoiple using the equipment do have insurance. The prices offered by the online sellers have had a devastating effect on the DME. They always provided CPAP and all of the other services (billing, supply, accreditation by state and national authorities, clinical support) and saw the dollars that paid for them go away. (4)Any wonder why DME's don't provide the services that they used to? They can't afford to. CPAP has gone from in-home set ups and follow ups by a respiratory therapist to "come in and get it" set ups and zero follow up.

The internet sellers are opportunists that have irreversable damaged the way CPAP is procured. This has resulted in OSA being treated as a "throwaway diagnosis" by the insurance companies. (5) Pay as little as possible because the patient won't use it anyway, and move on. No disease management (as there is with diabetes), just run as cheaply as possible.

The CPAP manufacturers erred when they agreed to sell equipment to the internet sellers. It was a foolish move, and kudos to ResMed for doing something about it. As for price fixing, have you ever found a deal on Bose headphones? There is no law against protecting a price point. (6)The internet sellers can play the victim (like Mr. Petersen), but it simply does not wash. ResMed was not founded so he could become a millionaire brokering their products.

But then, I don't know anything about any of this. No hard feelings intended.

(1) DMEs need to sell a $300 cpap for $4000 to be able to provide service with the sale? ...you expect us to believe that?

(2) WRONG! eBay does not allow the sale of cpap equipment.

(3) Does it matter that people have insurance? ...NO! because the user is ultimately paying for the insure through premiums anyway. There is no "pot of gold" for the DMEs to dip into.

(4) When did the local DMEs provide this wonderful service? Not in the time I've been using cpap.

(5) Folks like (internet cpap seller) Johnny Goodman have done more, with this forum, to improve compliance than any local DME has selling cpaps for $4000.

(6) Who is this millionaire cpap seller, Mr. Peterson?

[NightHawkeye]

Maskmeister, you spin a compelling tale, but do you have your facts right? Can you provide supporting evidence for any of your assertions?

The prices offered by the online sellers have had a devastating effect on the DME. They always provided CPAP and all of the other services (billing, supply, accreditation by state and national authorities, clinical support) and saw the dollars that paid for them go away.

Is there any evidence to support your assertion that DME's ever provided service that improved compliance to anything better than today's abysmal compliance rate of less than 50%?

The internet sellers are opportunists that have irreversable damaged the way CPAP is procured. This has resulted in OSA being treated as a "throwaway diagnosis" by the insurance companies. Pay as little as possible because the patient won't use it anyway, and move on.

What is the basis for this statement? Reality suggests otherwise. Most insurance companies actively discourage buying from internet sellers. I know mine certainly did.

Hopefully, you can enlighten me as to the facts underlying your assertions.

Regards,
Bill

[sthnreb]

(6)The internet sellers can play the victim (like Mr. Petersen), but it simply does not wash. ResMed was not founded so he could become a millionaire brokering their products

Just think, if an Internet provider becomes a miliionaire selling at lower pricing, I guess that makes DME's billionaires or even trillionaires selling the same products at 3-4 times the price with even less service??

[Wulfman]

Maskmeister,

No hard feelings.....

I take back what I said about you sleeping through your classes......I'm more inclined to believe that you didn't take any of them to begin with.

You just don't get it.....do you?
THINGS CHANGE! The technology changes. Prices change (like the way they did with computers). Insurance companies make changes to their coverages.
CHANGES, CHANGES, CHANGES!!!
If a business thinks that they can just stand still and do everything the way they've always done while the whole world changes around them, then they will probably fail.

Everything you've said about the Internet XPAP sellers is pure "garbage".
They have buildings, employees and other forms of overhead. Whatever can happen that will bring down the cost of this (or any other) therapy is a DAMN GOOD THING!

Have a good day

Den

[Guest]

Macmeister, believe me, it is a very useless battle to wage.
There is a great deal of truth in what you have said, however many of the readers of this site will never, ever believe it. Some have said that they believe the companies involved in health care actually meet to devise ways to harm people. They are simply not able to see past the hatred they have of these business to see anything objectively.

[sthnreb]

Why does all the Internet sales negativity always come from guests to the forum? Perhaps unwelcomed guests? If they like this forum, why not sign up so everyone will know who they are. If they despise Internet sales why do they even come to and post on forums? I've still never found the DME forum so I could go there and bash them. So, Macmeister, since the DME's are the best thing since chocolate cake, where is their site to supports their price increase lobbying? Seems as good as they are, they could at least have an Internet site to keep up with progress.