UPDATE Looking for TENS Unit Recommendations

avi123 wrote:In my (and others) opinion a TENS unit is a hoax. It does nothing physiologically or medically in our bodies to reduce pain.

Avi,

Why do you have to be such a jerk? Kteague has been using a TENS unit for years with great success. All she did was ask for recommendations on a new one. You don't think it works or is viable, that's your OPINION and you are entitled to it. But it doesn't mean that you are right. You seem help bent on trying to convince people on this board about things YOU don't think work or work well, despite numerous people having success with the item.

What's wrong with you? Again, why do you have to be such a jerk??

No I'm not senile but I think I know someone who is.

Maddie I love your cat, what kind is it? We just got two 7 week old kittens and the first thing I learned is cover those legs up. Our two older ones try to ignore them. There a great joy to watch, if I had just a little of that energy I'd be happy. Sorry for changing the subject.

I used to consider the words in CR as gospel, (or next to it.)
Not quite as much lately, especially in view of the article quoted by Avi.
First, pain can be difficult to quantify; and when that is the case,
anyone other than those who suffer the pain is in a position to judge
whether something works --or not.
In any case, if Avi suffers pain for which there is no relief--other than that which he does not acknowledge;
well, I cannot comment. --but, I am thinking it!

That's Hershey. We found her at the pound in 2010. She is solid chocolate which I understand to be quite rare. She's terribly skittish and we believe she was abused. But she loves our other cats and seems happy as long as we don't force her to be loved or sociable. She lets us know when she wants attention.

chunkyfrog wrote:I used to consider the words in CR as gospel, (or next to it.)
Not quite as much lately, especially in view of the article quoted by Avi.
First, pain can be difficult to quantify; and when that is the case,
anyone other than those who suffer the pain is in a position to judge
whether something works --or not.
In any case, if Avi suffers pain for which there is no relief--other than that which he does not acknowledge;
well, I cannot comment. --but, I am thinking it!

Reply,

Froggie wait a minute, I did not try a TENS in this area:

Erotic Electrosmiluation With TENS & EMS Units

http://www.tensunitstoreonline.com/erot ... ems-units/

Has any of the OSA group tried it? It could be therapeutical while putting the mask on.

chunkyfrog wrote:I used to consider the words in CR as gospel, (or next to it.)
Not quite as much lately, especially in view of the article quoted by Avi.

the article *mis*quoted by our resident crackpot... the cover story of the september issue was about pain medication overuse, narcotics, and the grave hidden danger of acetamenofen (paracetamol).

I don't remember one word in the issue about TENS.

chunkyfrog wrote:I used to consider the words in CR as gospel, (or next to it.)
Not quite as much lately, especially in view of the article quoted by Avi.
First, pain can be difficult to quantify; and when that is the case,
anyone other than those who suffer the pain is in a position to judge
whether something works --or not.
In any case, if Avi suffers pain for which there is no relief--other than that which he does not acknowledge;
well, I cannot comment. --but, I am thinking it!

CR is correct in this respect, although it summarizes something technical down to two sentences. Alas, CR has over the years, also shrunk its magazine and lists of products, as readership has declined (died....) and younger people don't give a damn about product quality, and/or rely more on free online information sources for advice. Where there used to be dozens of items shown in each test, now the print magazine prints only the top five or ten items. The lesser products tested get cut off, only to be seen on the online website, for paying subscribers.

Anyway yes, it's correct. Even, in his own way, Avi is. A TENS unit doesn't cure or help anything it simply blocks the body's pain signals to the brain, tricking it with 'distracting' other signals. But, much as an anesthetic doesn't heal the actual trauma requiring the anesthetic, the blocking of the pain signals is more than a sufficient benefit for the patient.

hyperlexis wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:I used to consider the words in CR as gospel, (or next to it.)
Not quite as much lately, especially in view of the article quoted by Avi.
First, pain can be difficult to quantify; and when that is the case,
anyone other than those who suffer the pain is in a position to judge
whether something works --or not.
In any case, if Avi suffers pain for which there is no relief--other than that which he does not acknowledge;
well, I cannot comment. --but, I am thinking it!

CR is correct in this respect, although it summarizes something technical down to two sentences. Alas, CR has over the years, also shrunk its magazine and lists of products, as readership has declined (died....) and younger people don't give a damn about product quality, and/or rely more on free online information sources for advice. Where there used to be dozens of items shown in each test, now the print magazine prints only the top five or ten items. The lesser products tested get cut off, only to be seen on the online website, for paying subscribers.

Anyway yes, it's correct. Even, in his own way, Avi is. A TENS unit doesn't cure or help anything it simply blocks the body's pain signals to the brain, tricking it with 'distracting' other signals. But, much as an anesthetic doesn't heal the actual trauma requiring the anesthetic, the blocking of the pain signals is more than a sufficient benefit for the patient.

Comments,

Hyperlexis, the OP who has been sort of pushing the TENS units with several posts over the recent years could not even point to one solid medical study data done correctly. It's always what she felt and what kept her happy. Sort of a cultish approach. What if the TENS units actually cause bodily damage to other folks in addition to the wasted money buying this snake oil product? I could post dozens of tests results from reliable sources of medical data such as the New England Journal of Medicine, the Mayo Clinic Health Letter, etc. that TENS units are sham. Even the regular Wikipedia tells you that "The benefit of TENS for pain is controversial.[3]" in other words: "However, the effectiveness of TENS for individual pain conditions, such as low back pain, is still controversial, likely because of poor
study designs and small sample size. Thus, continued research of TENS mechanisms and
stimulation parameters in adequately characterized patient populations is critical."

Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcutan ... timulation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 130619.pdf

As to your remarks about the Consumer Reports on Health (not the regular Consumer Reports) about its usefulness, you have not giving any reliable data to its trueness. It's just your own opinion. So I take your comments as meaningless.

squid13 wrote:

avi123 wrote:Squid, you're most likely full of BS thinking that your neuropathic legs come from nowhere while the truth is that you are obese and probably diabetic, and suffer from PAD (Peripheral Arterial Disease) and if you don't do something soon about it you'll come down with blocked coronaries and/or face amputations of extremities. It is the lack of oxygen as a result of reduced blood circulation in your legs that killed the nerves there. Seek Vascular Physicians over there in Fl to check your legs blood circulation.

Well where do I start 1. I'm not obese and I'm not a diabetic. I have a complete physical every May with a complete blood work up and everything is OK. My neuropathy is in my feet not my legs and is coming from my lower back which has had 3 surgery's on it. I had a blood pressure problem this last January and had a complete cardiology work up stress test, echo graham, tilt table and carotid arteries checked and everything was way above average, in fact she said I was exceptional for my age. The cause was my CPAP was working so good that I was taking to much blood pressure medications so I went from 20 MG Vasotec twice a day to 5 MG twice a day. So don't worry about me, worry about yourself.

Squid,

Your use of medical terms is quite confusing. What do you mean by having 3 back surgeries for your neuropathy in your feet. Where those back surgeries done to cure your neuropathy in your feet? I know it that this can't be done and that's why I am asking. Any chances that those who you relied on don't know it that your neuropathy could have been caused by poor blood circulation in your feet? Ask them and see that they can't reply.

avi123 wrote: Hyperlexis, the OP who has been sort of pushing the TENS units with several posts over the recent years could not even point to one solid medical study data done correctly. It's always what she felt and what kept her happy. Sort of a cultish approach. What if the TENS units actually cause bodily damage to other folks in addition to the wasted money buying this snake oil product? I could post dozens of tests results from reliable sources of medical data such as the New England Journal of Medicine, the Mayo Clinic Health Letter, etc. that TENS units are sham. Even the regular Wikipedia tells you that "The benefit of TENS for pain is controversial.[3]" in other words: "However, the effectiveness of TENS for individual pain conditions, such as low back pain, is still controversial, likely because of poor
study designs and small sample size. Thus, continued research of TENS mechanisms and
stimulation parameters in adequately characterized patient populations is critical."

Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcutan ... timulation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 130619.pdf

Frankly, I never thought much about TENS until this thread appeared, but I do like to track down the scientific evidence. Interesting that you quote the "controversial" line from the paper, but you leave out the last sentence of the abstract, usually the most important point the authors are trying to convey:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746624/pdf/nihms-130619.pdf wrote:Thus, evidence continues to emerge from both basic science and clinical trials
supporting the use of TENS for the treatment of a variety of painful conditions while identifying
strategies to increase TENS effectiveness.

avi123 wrote:What do you mean by having 3 back surgeries for your neuropathy in your feet. Where those back surgeries done to cure your neuropathy in your feet?

The back surgeries were not for my neuropathy it was because I have degenerative disc disease in my lower back and for each surgery I had a badly ruptured disc that needed fixing, from this disease I developed the problem with my feet. I'm not a Doctor so I talk in layman's terms and I guess that's hard for you to understand, so I assume you must be a wannabe MD.

avi123 wrote: ...Hyperlexis, the OP who has been sort of pushing the TENS units with several posts over the recent years could not even point to one solid medical study data done correctly. It's always what she felt and what kept her happy. Sort of a cultish approach. What if the TENS units actually cause bodily damage to other folks in addition to the wasted money buying this snake oil product? I could post dozens of tests results from reliable sources of medical data such as the New England Journal of Medicine, the Mayo Clinic Health Letter, etc. that TENS units are sham. Even the regular Wikipedia tells you that "The benefit of TENS for pain is controversial...

Wow Avi. I am one solidly against the attacks on this forum on individuals (even on you) rather than simply rebutting their objectionable posts. Today you challenge my resolve. Funny, but I am reminded of our own crochety but oft helpful Snoredog - may he rest in peace. No, I have not offered you any links to studies on TENS use in general as they are prolific and you obviously have no trouble finding research articles. As with almost anything, there will be studies "proving" a point both pro and con. We each have to assess the evidence and decide what we believe. You have obviously decided to pick and choose those that support your beliefs. That doesn't mean the other position is not represented in reputable studies. But I will not be using my time searching them out to debate an issue for which there will be no agreeing.

I do want to point out my TENS was prescribed by a respected orthopedic doctor for low back pain. Only variable is I decided to see if using it before bedtime would quiet my legs at night. And it does. Wow, dangerous cult here. Can I point you to even one study proving that TENS is effective for PLMD? No. Because to my knowledge there have not been any studies - yet. But if I were a betting woman, I'd bet it on this conversation being totally different in a few years. In the words of Snoredog - Someday science will catch up with what I'm saying. I readily acknowledge I have only anecdotal evidence. Never once pretended it was anything more. But isn't most research born out of emerging anecdotal evidence? Again, your opinion has no bearing on the validity of my experience, but you are certainly free to have it. No offense taken.

I'm late to this post but I've used a TENS unit for years. My first 2 EMPI units are long retired and I now have the Select. I like the EMPI machines and have really good results relieving neck pain associated with spinal surgery. It reduced the need for pain meds and eliminated the need for physical therapy. I use heat after mine or Biofreeze depending on the day. Therapy with the TENS is much more beneficial once you find the right settings, so if someone has been using it on generic settings, I could see it producing poor results. Ya know, kinda like a CPap... Good luck.

So, I presume the OTC units are probably not as effective/adjustable as the prescription ones.
If something as simple as electricity can replace a drug--no toxicity, side effects, etc., so what's the problem?
--Well, I suppose if I owned stock in a drug company . . . ?