Lifespan RESEARCH on cpap use vs no cpap use?

And what evidence Choker do you have that the OP was diagnosed with sleep apnea? He/she could have asked the question for various reasons that have nothing to do with this person using a pap machine.

Evidence??? He took the time to register and post in a CPAP forum. Duh.

Cereal Killer wrote:

And what evidence Choker do you have that the OP was diagnosed with sleep apnea? He/she could have asked the question for various reasons that have nothing to do with this person using a pap machine.

Evidence??? He took the time to register and post in a CPAP forum. Duh.

Come on now Cereal Killer, how about some civility in your response. Just because someone took the time to register and post in a CPAP forum doesn't mean the person is using a machine.

He/she could have been asking on behalf of a relative. Could be doing research on cpap usage for a class project. We have had similar type questions in the past from students who were doing research projects.

Anyway, remember what they say about assuming.

49er

49er wrote: And what evidence Choker do you have that the OP was diagnosed with sleep apnea? He/she could have asked the question for various reasons that have nothing to do with this person using a pap machine.

49er

"Various reasons". haha

You are being purely argumentative 49er and I think you know it.

For a change of pace, why don't you get out of the house and get some sunshine today? Sitting there at the computer all day everyday is not doing you any good.

Have a nice lunch at a special restaurant and stroll outside doing some window shopping.

I don't care if I live longer. I feel good instead of being a zombie. I can think in straight lines and remember things and understand new concepts. I don't bite peoples heads off (much).
The quality of my life is far more important that the length.

The Choker wrote:

49er wrote: And what evidence Choker do you have that the OP was diagnosed with sleep apnea? He/she could have asked the question for various reasons that have nothing to do with this person using a pap machine.

49er

"Various reasons". haha

You are being purely argumentative 49er and I think you know it.

For a change of pace, why don't you get out of the house and get some sunshine today? Sitting there at the computer all day everyday is not doing you any good.

Have a nice lunch at a special restaurant and stroll outside doing some window shopping.

Good advice about the sunshine Choker and I am getting to that point so thank you for your concern:)

Hmm, is it being argumentative to point out that you can't necessarily make assumptions about someone's motives for asking a question? I find it interesting you responded in that manner that you did instead of stating your reasons for making the assumption.

You could be 100% right about the OP but I just prefer giving someone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. I know that makes me a weirdo on this board.

Anyway, I do need to take your advice and get some sunshine. Good for my vitamin D levels. Since I am at 60, maybe I can get up to 80 and stop using my machine since vitamin D cures sleep apnea.

BlackSpinner wrote:I don't care if I live longer. I feel good instead of being a zombie. I can think in straight lines and remember things and understand new concepts. I don't bite peoples heads off (much).
The quality of my life is far more important that the length.

Great point BS.

I have a relative who lived until her early 90s with what I suspect was undiagnosed apnea. I always wonder how much better her quality of life would be if she had received treatment.

49er wrote:

The Choker wrote:

2Hulls poses an excellent question!

That is your opinion. "Excellent" is in the eye of the beholder.

I saw it as looking for an excuse to forego using CPAP.

And what evidence Choker do you have that the OP was diagnosed with sleep apnea? He/she could have asked the question for various reasons that have nothing to do with this person using a pap machine.

49er

I would have to ask why would someone who has not been dx'd come to this forum and ask that question?

I can assure you before I was dx'd I did not/would not search for 'sleep apnea' and ask questions.

49er wrote:

Anyway, I do need to take your advice and get some sunshine.

Don't hesitate. Do it today. Nothing like a walk in the sunshine to lift your spirits and melt away that argumentative mood.

Wish I wasn't working today. See ya.

Not wishing to be offensive to anyone, there are some who approach CPAP with an almost religious fervor. I am not preaching... I am a CPAP user, and it has improved the quality of my sleep, no question.

But when I recently raised the potential that someday we may look back at this current "CPAP era" as a piece of medical history, replaced by newer technology such as hypoglossal nerve pacemaker stimulation, the very idea that CPAP might someday be supplanted as the preferred therapy for OSA was attacked by some.

Everyone should always keep and open mind and a bit of humility about what the science "knows". I have been an MD since 1976, still active practice. Two thirds of what I "knew" in 1980 turned out to be incorrect, or at least a gross oversimplication.

And medicine is full of therapies accepted as the standard of care that nonethesless cannot be demonstrated to prolong lifespan. For me personally, I know that CPAP allows me to live better regardless of whether it allows me to live longer!

The Choker wrote:

2Hulls poses an excellent question!

That is your opinion. "Excellent" is in the eye of the beholder.

I saw it as looking for an excuse to forego using CPAP.

This was my suspicion/interpretation, too.

The sad part is that there are many ( millions? ) of people who are either diagnosed or undiagnosed and trying to exist without using a very beneficial therapy. These non-users are putting a burden on our healthcare system.


Den

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Wulfman... wrote:

The Choker wrote:

2Hulls poses an excellent question!

That is your opinion. "Excellent" is in the eye of the beholder.

I saw it as looking for an excuse to forego using CPAP.

This was my suspicion/interpretation, too.

The sad part is that there are many ( millions? ) of people who are either diagnosed or undiagnosed and trying to exist without using a very beneficial therapy. These non-users are putting a burden on our healthcare system.


Den

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But, Wulfman, this is also very hard to prove! Payers want to see documentation of cost savings as a result of using a particular therapy: impossible to do if you can't do a controlled trial, collecting costs for those using the therapy vs those not. Also, remember that if you pass away, you no longer have sleep apnea, and therefore no costs that impact the payer.

SleepyToo2 wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:

The Choker wrote:

2Hulls poses an excellent question!

That is your opinion. "Excellent" is in the eye of the beholder.

I saw it as looking for an excuse to forego using CPAP.

This was my suspicion/interpretation, too.

The sad part is that there are many ( millions? ) of people who are either diagnosed or undiagnosed and trying to exist without using a very beneficial therapy. These non-users are putting a burden on our healthcare system.


Den

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But, Wulfman, this is also very hard to prove! Payers want to see documentation of cost savings as a result of using a particular therapy: impossible to do if you can't do a controlled trial, collecting costs for those using the therapy vs those not. Also, remember that if you pass away, you no longer have sleep apnea, and therefore no costs that impact the payer.

Yeah, that's the ultimate cure for everything.
But, one problem with this condition (Sleep Apnea) is that there's almost no way to quantify how many people actually have it, use the therapy, quit using therapy, die because of the related effects that lead to their deaths, etc., etc., etc.


Den

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Wulfman... wrote: But, one problem with this condition (Sleep Apnea) is that there's almost no way to quantify how many people actually have it, use the therapy, quit using therapy, die because of the related effects that lead to their deaths, etc., etc., etc.


Den

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Also, with so many machines without data, it is impossible to get *accurate* numbers of how many people are getting successful therapy or just struggling along with less than ideal therapy. And how many people are using it for 2-5 hours of night but sleeping 6-9 hours a night? In order to really get an accurate study, you would need to be able to look at years of data in order to sort people into categories (fully using all night long with successful therapy/ successful when using, but not all night / using all night, but not fully successful / not using at all / etc.

But! We do know that high blood pressure is a huge risk factor for strokes and heart attacks. Those both kill a lot of people. And sleep apnea causes high blood pressure. So, while the studies aren't direct, we can infer that successful treatment for sleep apnea will reduce the risk of heart attack and stroke, and thus reduce the risk of early death.

And we should not forget that not all strokes kill. Those that do not kill can cause a LOT of expensive treatment. So, sleep apnea treatment really is cost effective. I can't speak for others, but I am more afraid of a stroke than a heart attack. I put off diagnosis and treatment for two reasons. I didn't think I could sleep with a cpap (my mom's machine was loud, and I thought you had to use a nasal mask), and I thought it was about waking up a lot. I didn't realize it was about oxygen desaturation and long term damage. When I finally saw a health report on a news program about sleep apnea causing high blood pressure, I realized I needed to confess, get tested, and accept my cpap machine. My doctor had been warning me for over a year that my blood pressure was way too high (even with 3 medications), and I was at a higher risk of stroke (I was 38 when she started telling me this). So, to see a story explaining that my high risk of stroke was caused by my sleep apnea helped me get serious. I do wish mydoctor had bothered to mention it. She knew my mom had sleep apnea, and she never bothered to ask how I slept. I have all the classic risk factors and symptoms - overweight, narrow airway, small mouth, high blood pressure, headaches, lots of bathroom trips at night, bad dreams, gerd, gasping/choking fits until I vomit, extreme snoring, gasping, and snorting. You name it, I had it. But she never asked. I would have answered honestly if asked. I just didn't volunteer the info as I didn't know they were all connected and thought I was doing fine.

SleepyToo2 wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:.

The sad part is that there are many ( millions? ) of people who are either diagnosed or undiagnosed and trying to exist without using a very beneficial therapy. These non-users are putting a burden on our healthcare system.


Den

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But, Wulfman, this is also very hard to prove! Payers want to see documentation of cost savings as a result of using a particular therapy: impossible to do if you can't do a controlled trial, collecting costs for those using the therapy vs those not. Also, remember that if you pass away, you no longer have sleep apnea, and therefore no costs that impact the payer.

This goes for obesity too. Studies done in Europe indicate they die earlier so save the system money in the long run.

zoocrewphoto wrote:
But! We do know that high blood pressure is a huge risk factor for strokes and heart attacks. Those both kill a lot of people. And sleep apnea causes high blood pressure. So, while the studies aren't direct, we can infer that successful treatment for sleep apnea will reduce the risk of heart attack and stroke, and thus reduce the risk of early death.

And we should not forget that not all strokes kill. Those that do not kill can cause a LOT of expensive treatment. .

All people in denial should spend some time with people who have had a stroke/ dementia. Do you want to do this to your family? I have spent the last 2 1/2 years changing adult shitty diapers and feeding my mother, most of it due to strokes. And yes she used to snore badly and gasp.