OT: blood sugar question

I don't have the space or time to make things from scratch. I don't eat any meats other than beef and chicken, and only certain parts of those. Nothing on the bone. No organs. Absolutely no seafood. I don't pay for my medications. Do you live off of $189 dollars for food a month?

You do have a tough budget, Kona. Definitely a challenge to make healthy choices.

We feed four people on less than four times that amount each month. Not saying your budget is easy, but we don't spend more per person. The discount from my husband's employer helps a lot--otherwise organic food and pastured meat would be off our table (his employer owns organic farms and ranches). We are fortunate enough to have wiggle room in the budget to be able to make bulk purchases like the lamb. And we are willing to eat less expensive cuts on the bone (important nutrients get lost when meat is processed off the bone), eat offal and canned as well as fresh fish (not shellfish) for their nutrient value. We both work full time but it's our priority to spend the time and effort to buy and prepare healthy food for our family. We even barter for some things.

We spend nearly $17,000 a year on health insurance BEFORE copays. It's not free (neither is yours, even if it's not coming directly out of your pocket). It's crazy-ass backwards that our food budget takes a back seat to health insurance--if more people took responsibility for keeping their diets healthy and their blood sugars under control, this nation would save BILLIONS in health care. I'm paying the health care costs of a lot of people with chronic diseases that might be entirely preventable if they ate REAL FOOD that didn't come in a box.

I don't mean to sound preachy, here, Kona. You've made it eminently clear that you don't want to pursue this dietary approach, so I'm not sure why you keep coming back to this thread to argue about it. We get that this dietary approach didn't work for you. Why has this become a competition?

You remind me of the people who come to CPAPTalk to argue six ways to Sunday why they can never adjust to CPAP. They have a reason why not for every suggestion made from experienced people who make the mistake of genuinely trying to help. Then they stuff their CPAPs in a closet and go away muttering how stupid we all are to use CPAP every night.

checked my blood sugar at 6am when I awoke this morning and it was 110
didn't eat for 3 hours…checked it again at 9am and it was 90

in years past when I have gotten blood tests from the lab…they don't necessarily tell you to come in first thing in the morning to get your blood sugar tested…all they tell you is to fast beforehand

the discrepancy is huge

any thoughts?

I Ate Nothing! Why Are My BGs high?
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.ca/2009/0 ... -high.html

Dawn Phenomenon and the Somogyi Effect - Overview
http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/tc/dawn-p ... yi-effect-

Some people think the Somogyi Effect is a myth.

You don't need to fast for HbA1c. Usually that is required for being tested for something else at the same time (i.e., lipids).

Nmevan,

This drives me crazy, because I want numbers to be reliable, and they are only partly reliable on blood glucose meters. I assume (hope) some are better than others. I have two True Result meters. I've never heard about problems with accuracy with them, but . . .

These are two meters from the same manufacturer==different models, and they use the same test strips. One is big and bulky and stays home, one is teeny tiny--fits on cap of the canister the test strips come on--easy to carry in my purse. This may seem like overkill for someone who is not an Insulin dependent diabetic, but I had a truly scary incident with low blood sugar on Prednisone, and now I carry a meter.

So one day I decided to play (after I found a source for inexpensive brand name strips). I used two strips from the same vial on the same drop of blood, but using both meters. They were a good 30 mg/dl off! My understanding is that the tolerance level for test strips can be plus or minus 20%, but between the two my BG was running 80 on one and 110 on the other. BIG difference, IMHO. HUGE difference if you're trying to titrate an insulin dose based on the reading of one or the other machine.

I tested them the same way several times. They never agreed, though they were never off by that much again--they varied by 5 or 10 mg/dl at most. And sometimes one would be high, next time the other might be high. There was NO consistency. Once I tested my main meter twice in quick succession using the SAME drop of blood and got two different readings about 4 mg/dl different.

So I don't think you're getting exactly pinpoint accuracy with them.

I have taken my bigger meter in with me to the lab when I got an FBG and taken it right after. I think the lab tested me at 99 and my meter said 102, so I thought it was pretty accurate. Now I just don't know.

The takeaway from this is that if you're not an insulin dependent diabetic, then they are useful for trending, but don't get too excited if it's 103 one day and 97 the next.

There is an article by Consumer Reports on the accuracy of meters and a buying guide, but it's behind a pay wall and I don't have access. When I shopped for a meter, I looked for a good price for the strips These weren't too terribly expensive, and recently I found a mail order supplier at about 1/3 of the price I've been paying at local drug stores. Walmart Relion brand is very inexpensive, but I've heard complaints about accuracy. I've never heard about issues with the True Result meter.

It may be that you have a reasonably good fasting blood sugar level in the morning, but the variations in the meter are what you are seeing, not true "Dawn Phenomenon". I would not worry too much about 10 or 15 mg/dl. Just gather data and watch your trends over time, see what's happening.

Post prandial measurements are probably more useful. I stay around 90 to 110 after meals most times at an hour and I'm always back to low 90s or mid 80's two hours later. Last week, though I shot up to 150+ 2 hours after a meal. That told me something was going on (job stress) that needed attention.

LOL, I sound like I check constantly, but I don't. I know what my pattern is. I check it if something is unusual, or when I really blew it so I can see how much damage I've done. I've been playing with adding resistant starches to my diet, so I'm checking more to make sure those aren't wreaking havoc with my BG control. And I've also been checking more lately because I'm playing with a new toy--a breath ketone meter, and I'm trying to see if there's any correlation to blood sugar (some).

I'm a math dweeb, but I do like the idea of objective data, though I get frustrated that it's not as reliable as I want it to be.

nmevan wrote:What is a good source of potassium?

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable Chapter 13: Clinical Use of Very Low Calorie and Low Carbohydrate Diets says:

Early on in the VLCD era, hypokalemia (low blood potassium) was not uncommon, but once we learned to supply a modicum of sodium to avoid aldosterone-induced potasium wasting, this became a rare finding (limited to individuals with the concurrent use of diuretics).

Well, guess who takes an ACE inhibitor? Yes. Me. I put myself into hypokalemia state on Saturday by mistake. Mild hypokalemia is often without symptoms, although it may cause a small elevation of blood pressure, and can occasionally provoke cardiac arrhythmias. I have a recordings of erratic accelerated heart rate from my CMS-50F SpO2 monitor / recorder. It shows arrhythmias and accelerated heart rate from the first evening (the worst) and significantly reduced each night thereafter until it went away completely.

Aldosterone is a steroid hormone (mineralocorticoid family) produced by the outer section (zona glomerulosa) of the adrenal cortex in the adrenal gland. It plays a central role in the regulation of blood pressure mainly by acting on the distal tubules and collecting ducts of the nephron, increasing reabsorption of ions and water in the kidney, to cause the conservation of sodium, secretion of potassium, increased water retention, and increased blood pressure.

I took 1/4 teaspoon of salt on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday and ate potassium rich foods. The accelerated heart rate and arrhythmias were gone by Tuesday when I went to the hospital. They gave me a clean bill of health. I'm glad because I hate hospitals. I see my cardiologist in a couple of weeks for a scheduled stress test. I'll see if he gives me shit. Probably. The emergency doctor wanted me to see if they would accelerate the stress test schedule if possible. To me this means no longer an emergency.

So, good food sources of potassium are important. Salt is just as important especially if you take a diuretic. A lot of diabetics may have metabolic syndrome too so potassium and salt is critically important when LCHF'ing.

[1] Sodium wasting in potassium depletion: the role of aldosterone: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 71/?page=1

another question about LCHF diet

a year ago I had a urine test and it showed protein in my urine. my blood test did not show anything suspicious with my kidneys.
my PCP prescribed beazepril to help lower my minimally high blood pressure 140/80 and suggested that I lose weight to get my "pre-diabetes" under control… fasting blood glucose around 110

I've done a bit of reading on the net (always scary) about protein in the urine and the affect of high blood sugar on the kidneys…the following is a suggesting from the American Diabetes Association...

"Another treatment some doctors use with macroalbuminuria is a low-protein diet. Protein seems to increase how hard the kidneys must work. A low-protein diet can decrease protein loss in the urine and increase protein levels in the blood. Never start a low-protein diet without talking to your health care team."

I am embarking on a LCHF diet…and I wonder if I am doing the right thing by eating large amounts of protein.

nmevan

nmevan wrote:I am embarking on a LCHF diet…and I wonder if I am doing the right thing by eating large amounts of protein.

nmevan, low carbohydrate doesn't automatically mean high protein. In fact, it shouldn't. Increased fat (the HF part) consumption should offset the reduction in calories from carbs. Additional protein (above normal requirements) is not required nor necessarily desirable.

nmevan wrote:another question about LCHF diet. I am embarking on a LCHF diet…and I wonder if I am doing the right thing by eating large amounts of protein.

I don't know what "large amount" means but I suspect you have already read a lot of guidance about protein targets. A doctor on Diabetes Summit said the standard method used by nutritionists to estimate our minimum daily protein requirement is to multiply the body weight in kilograms by .8, or weight in pounds by .37.

I've been using this calculator to establish rough macro nutrient targets: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ and this one from about.com http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/library/b ... lators.htm. I tend to the low end of the range right now. I will probably adjust as I add more resistance training during the summer.

BTW, thanks for listing your meal plans earlier. It reminded me to have more seeds and nuts in my diet. I started including more of that today with sunflower seeds, cold pressed flax meal, and psyllium seed husk. Makes eating all the fat more bearable because I am now also getting plenty of fiber. Must be the formerly vegan prejudice in me breaking out again. Still have to find a local butcher who knows of farms and hunters in my area with grass fed animals and wild turkey for sale.

LCHF. Is NOT a high protein diet. It's a moderate/adequate protein diet.

There's even some research using LCHF to treat diabetic kidney disease which researchers claim is more effective than kidney dialysis.

It's a good idea to keep an eye on your kidney function with your doctor's help, but the damage comes from decades of hyperglycemia, not from LCHF.

thanks to everyone for your caring and help
I've actually lost a few pounds in the last week

I've been listening to the diabetes summit this week and have enjoyed it…but it drives me crazy when the presenters contradict each other…one example is whether or not to eat in-between meals…I've heard both sides…that eating several small meals keeps your blood sugar regulated…and then an opposing view that one only spikes blood sugar when you ingest food…one fellow even claimed that you should only eat two large meals a day…I just wish they were all on the same page!

I have reactive hypoglycemia and here's my observation:

When I ate a lot of carbs I HAD to eat every two hours. I ate carbs which spiked my blood glucose until my insulin resistant cells finally let the insulin work. At that point, the insulin levels were so high, they dropped my blood sugar like a stone. That made me hungry and needing to eat again. A two hour cycle while awake. Torture.

On low carb, high fat, my blood sugar is rock steady. I don't have those highs and lows. IF I'm hungry, I eat. If I'm not hungry, I don't. I very rarely snack, because I don't NEED to. But when I do, there's NO reason not to--unchecked hunger gets away from you and makes you make awful food choices. I do check in with myself--is it truly hunger or is it just that I really want the square of chocolate I promised myself. If I'm not sure, I wait 20 minutes. 90% of the time I forget my "hunger" but if I don't, I eat a snack. I try to make it a good, nutrient dense low carb snack (not just a square of chocolate!).

Start listening to your own body. You can go crazy listening to the "experts" who all have their own opinions and thoughts. Pick one, adopt a basic structure, and listen to your body. When you silence the blood sugar roller coaster, you'll be able to feel and appreciate your own body again.