Insight Please

Hello,

My son's father has been diagnosed with sleep apnea. He was diagnosed after falling asleep at the wheel and crossing 4 lanes of highway traffic and flipping his vehicle numerous times with our 9 year old son in the vehicle.

In my relationship which ended 9 years ago I remember him always being tired and needing a full 8 hours of sleep to be able to function. We were also involved in an accident where he as the driver ran a light and t-boned another vehicle as well as memories of missing red lights and road signs.

My son obviously spends time with his father and as this is all fairly new with a recent diagnosis and as his father lives alone it is just the two of them. Aside from the above incidents and driving worries, should I be concerned about their time at home? Can it cause him to pass out and possibly fall? Or fall asleep with the stove on? My apologies if this comes agross as ignorant.

Also, after his diagnosis he was told to stop building body muscle as it affects his apnea and he is quite acvtive in not just exercise but in putting on muscle mass and has now started to do so again despite the Dr.'s advice. Could this cause complications that I should be concerned with?

Any insight is appreciated as I am unfamilliar with sleep apnea and its effects on a daily basis.

Thank you for your time,

Karlen Maguire

karma wrote:Hello,

My son's father has been diagnosed with sleep apnea. He was diagnosed after falling asleep at the wheel and crossing 4 lanes of highway traffic and flipping his vehicle numerous times with our 9 year old son in the vehicle.

In my relationship which ended 9 years ago I remember him always being tired and needing a full 8 hours of sleep to be able to function. We were also involved in an accident where he as the driver ran a light and t-boned another vehicle as well as memories of missing red lights and road signs.

My son obviously spends time with his father and as this is all fairly new with a recent diagnosis and as his father lives alone it is just the two of them. Aside from the above incidents and driving worries, should I be concerned about their time at home? Can it cause him to pass out and possibly fall? Or fall asleep with the stove on? My apologies if this comes agross as ignorant.

Also, after his diagnosis he was told to stop building body muscle as it affects his apnea and he is quite acvtive in not just exercise but in putting on muscle mass and has now started to do so again despite the Dr.'s advice. Could this cause complications that I should be concerned with?

Any insight is appreciated as I am unfamilliar with sleep apnea and its effects on a daily basis.

Thank you for your time,

Karlen Maguire

First of all, I hope your son is OK from that accident.
But, in my opinion, your son's father is a ticking time bomb. He obviously needs to be tested for sleep apnea and probably needs to be on CPAP therapy. Unfortunately, too many "macho" guys don't/won't use this therapy. But, there are many pro football players who have sleep apnea and DO use the therapy. One of the famous casualties of sleep apnea was Reggie White and his death woke up lots of people to this condition and therapy.

I don't know how you can approach it, but you may need to consult an attorney to find out what your legal options may be.

Good luck!


Den

.

You say he was diagnosed with sleep apnea. The question is if he is being treated and if he is fully compliant with with the prescribed treatment. You are in a difficult position. Do you have the kind of relationship with the father that you could have this discussion with him to express your concerns? Especially with his history of accidents, you have every right to be concerned. And every responsibility to assure your son's safety. Maybe his father is getting treatment and you can relax a bit. Even if he's back to bulking up, his treatment can accommodate possible increasing pressure needs if he's in tune to monitoring it. Could he fall asleep while cooking? Yes, he could. Hopefully you can have that talk with him. Seems the accident would open the door to the talk and it certainly makes it your business. Good luck with all this. Feel free to direct him here if he needs help with anything treatment wise.

Thank you for your responses.

He was actually on his way to a doctor appointment to look into his symptoms at the time of the crash with our son which was about a year ago. After that he was dignosed but I am unsure with which type of apnea specifically.

Since his diagnosis he has gotten a machine to use at night and says he is using it.

I'm concerned is all not knowing about this disorder, if that is what it's considered, and am wondering if my concerns are valid and if there is anything else I should be aware of that could happen now that he's been diagnosed.

Since that big accident he has also been in another fender bender that I forgot he mentioned the other day.

And the working out after being advised not to worries me somewhat because if you're advised not it must be because it can cause some sort of other health problems I would assume.

What are the concerns an individual with sleep apnea would have for themself in a situation where they live alone?

Hi - I do hope your son is now alright and is otherwise happy. I also think you need to learn more about apnea as there is so much misinformation out there, including lots given by doctors who are not as familiar with it as they should be and often perpetrate out-of-date stereotypes about it (such as the one that all people with apnea are overweight - not true by a long shot - or that only men get it (definitely not true!), or everyone who snores (not true, though some people with apnea do snore of course.

What apnea isn't (except in rare cases) is narcolepsy - and people with that do 'fall down', but 99% of the rest of us don't and won't. Apnea makes you quit breathing for a few seconds up to a minute at a time when asleep (only), and then you gasp for air, go back to sleep and the cycle starts again within a while, anywhere from e.g. a very mild case that awakens you (but NOT enough for you to be aware of it even if you have a severe case) only e.g. 5 times an hour, to some who have up to 100 (and over) events per hour, the majority of us being somewhere in between. There are people with 'positional apnea' who don't register problems if they don't sleep on their backs, and others who aren't sleepy during the day (enough so they're aware of it), but still test positive for it, and many who also have other conditions like thyroid problems that contribute to it as well.

It is the constant 'micro-awakenings' that make your sleep lousy and you so tired the next day... though again, very many people do function at their work, if often half asleep, without (yet) having been treated.

It's quite widespread - I can almost guarantee that people you know have it and use Cpap, but haven't made a point of sharing the news, and others who are in denial, which is sad.

Apnea can eventually lead to strokes and other cardiac issues, but that's not to say a particular individual will drop dead within 6 mos if untreated - thousands go untreated (never diagnosed properly, or told they 'just' have depression, or who knows what) and most make it to a relatively mature age, but each case is different and needs to be investigated by knowledgable pros. Your average GP, unless they've taken specialty courses, is not going to be a fountain of knowledge, but many neurologists and/or pulmonologists/respirologists are experts and its just a matter of finding one to help.

Again, apnea is 'obstructive' most of the time - your tongue relaxes and blocks your airway enough when you sleep so as to cause events, and Cpap helps keep your airway open enough to let the air in.

Go read your head off at the lightbulb link on top of the page but relax a little - I think you've been misled to some extent - narcolepsy and apnea are two different things and the first is really quite rare, the second anything but.

karma wrote: He was actually on his way to a doctor appointment to look into his symptoms at the time of the crash with our son which was about a year ago. After that he was dignosed but I am unsure with which type of apnea specifically.

Since his diagnosis he has gotten a machine to use at night and says he is using it.

If your son's father is using his PAP all night long every night and if his therapy is optimized, there's a very good chance that he's no longer excessively sleepy during the daytime.

That's the one bit of good news about being diagnosed with OSA: Most OSA patients who use CPAP every night, all night long become symptom-free (in terms of daytime sleepiness) within a few weeks to a couple of months of starting therapy. More good news: Using CPAP prevents the apneas from happening in the first place and that in turn significantly reduces the chances of the OSA patient of developing more OSA-related health problems. And once an OSA patient has become a committed PAPer, there really are no excessive risk factors for living alone: PAP really does return the typical OSA patient to normal in terms of daytime sleepiness and cognitive abilities and overall functioning.

But in order to be effective CPAP does have to be used every night, all night long. Sleeping with the CPAP for only part of the sleep time each night or sleeping with the CPAP for only a few nights each week is not likely to fully resolve the daytime symptoms, including the excessive sleepiness.

So the upshot: If your son's father is using his PAP all night, every night, then he's probably no longer excessively sleepy during the daytime and no more likely to fall asleep at the wheel than a normal person and no more likely to fall asleep with the stove on than a normal person.

But if your son's father is NOT using his PAP at night, then chances are he still is dealing with excessive daytime sleepiness and he is substantially more at risk of falling asleep while driving and more likely than a normal person to fall asleep with the stove on.

Karma, I think it's important for you to understand what OSA is and is not. OSA is simply a physical obstruction of the airways during sleep that stops a person's breathing. As a result, the person's oxygen levels drop, preventing restful sleep. OSA can also cause people to partially or fully wake frequently during the night, further disrupting sleep. The result is that people with OSA become very tired. It's as simple as that. The same could be said, for different reasons, of people who get inadequate sleep or who suffer from insomnia. People who are very tired are more likely to fall asleep at inappropriate times and are at a greater risk of falling asleep at the wheel (or, I suppose, with the stove on). But they do not generally pass out or fall.

And the important part is that your son's father is receiving treatment. CPAP successfully reduces daytime tiredness in most people who successfully and consistently use it. Of course it is impossible for you to monitor his compliance with therapy, but you can ask your son whether he notices that his father still seems sleepy during the daytime, takes frequent naps or falls asleep at inappropriate times, etc. But be careful not to turn your son into his father's sleep police, though; that is unlikely to result in improved compliance, and may strain your relationship with both your son and your ex and even his relationship with his father.

If your ex would cooperate, I'd be wanting to know a lot more about his treatment before I'd ever let him drive your son again. It's important not only that he is compliant with his therapy, but also that it is effective therapy. I think it's reasonable for you (through an attorney if necessary) to require that his data be regular monitored for EFFICACY and compliance. I think he should also have an MSLT to screen for narcolepsy.

Every time he drives your son he is taking your son's life in his hands. Don't put your son in the middle of this. Asking him if his dad is sleepy or drowsy is not fair to your son and not enough info. But I think you are justified to insist that he not drive your son unless you are assured through objective data that he is being adequately treated and compliant.

If I was your ex and came that close to harming my own child, I'd be doing everything possible to make sure I was properly treated so I could protect him.

As for the exercise, I never heard that before, and if it's important to him it deserves a second opinion.

I agree with Jnknitz I would want a court order requiring efficacy and compliance reporting as a condition of visitation rights.
The alternate would be a prohibition on your son riding in a car when his father is driving and possibly mandating only supervised visitation.
If you X is willing to provide you with weekly efficacy reports from his data capable machine, the folks here could teach you how to understand them. At that point I might be willing to forgo the court orders. But I would want to be sure he was being effectively and consistently treated.

Thank you so much all. I really appreciate you taking the time to read my post and provide your insight for me. This is very helpful in providing addition info to an unknowlegable individual. Ithe driving is a concer feels more legitimate now.

Have you all been diagnosed with Sleep Apnea as well or have someone in your life who has been?

Vast majority of us have diagnosed OSA (and or other similar sleep conditions), and some of us write to help family and friends with it.