OT: Drugs Haldol & Ativan

Taz wrote:Hi 49er,

Sorry my post upset you. I was telling it like it is and in a way, I was defending the medical staff. They are forced to make split second decisions and sometimes they may be a bit over aggressive but their goal is to protect and stop harm. Lesser sedating drugs would not have stopped a psychotic patient quick enough. In the ICU setting, if the patient had ripped out tubes and IV's, causing injuries.....then jenncat's family would have a really good case of medical negligence . From the medical staff's standpoint, it kind of a case of "be damned if you do or be damned if you don't". Jenncat's BIL will detox from the Haldon & Ativan...it will take time but he will...the real issues here are the acute injuries & medical history he came to the hospital with. Hospitals do make mistakes....but the good they do and the many lives they save far out weigh the mistakes.

Taz

Taz,

With all due respect, many patients take months to detox from these drugs and some folks do not recover. There are too many cases where giving the drug is totally inappropriate and instead hospitals hide behind the "CYA" excuse just to give drugs for their convenience.

And the hospital was definitely negligent in giving Jen's BIL the drug 4 more times when they should realized he had adversely reacted. Not immediately recognizing adverse drug reactions seems to be a big time problem with alot of medical professionals. That is despicable.

49er

jencat824 wrote:I understand that the medical staff has a duty to protect the patient and themselves, but in this case, I really think they acted to dope the patients so they could have a quiet evening.

That may well be, Jen. I really feel for you in this situation. I watched my grandfather starve to death in the hospital, unable to swallow from a chemotherapy-induced thrush infection while doctors insisted that he was suffering from end-stage Alzheimers and had forgotten how to swallow. In the end we had to threaten legal action to get him released and move him to another hospital to get him nutrition, but by that time it was too late: he was in multiple organ systems failure.

That said, Taz is right: be prepared for your attorney to tell you there's not much s/he can do. You are very unlikely to get any physician to go on record second-guessing the decisions of those who were there. Even if you can get them to admit privately to you that they would not have done the same, they are extremely unlikely to be willing to testify to that fact.

The Latinist wrote:

jencat824 wrote:I understand that the medical staff has a duty to protect the patient and themselves, but in this case, I really think they acted to dope the patients so they could have a quiet evening.

That may well be, Jen. I really feel for you in this situation. I watched my grandfather starve to death in the hospital, unable to swallow from a chemotherapy-induced thrush infection while doctors insisted that he was suffering from end-stage Alzheimers and had forgotten how to swallow. In the end we had to threaten legal action to get him released and move him to another hospital to get him nutrition, but by that time it was too late: he was in multiple organ systems failure.

That said, Taz is right: be prepared for your attorney to tell you there's not much s/he can do. You are very unlikely to get any physician to go on record second-guessing the decisions of those who were there. Even if you can get them to admit privately to you that they would not have done the same, they are extremely unlikely to be willing to testify to that fact.

Sadly, I agree with you Latinist. If the physicians were following the standard of care, no matter how screwy it is, the chances of winning a lawsuit are slim and none.

So sorry about your grandfather.

49er

purple wrote:Did you consider, a doc who prescribes for a patient gets paid more than one who just looks in on a patient? What do you know about this JanKnitz?

Purple,

No, a hospital physician does not get paid more for prescribing for a patient. He/she is paid a certain amount for being the attending or resident physician regardless of any prescribed meds. Now....in out-patient care....it's a different story. I've often felt and even accused some docs of prescribing meds just so they can bill the insurance and keep the patient coming back. I'm afraid that goes on more than anyone cares to admit. Take a case like....a young woman comes to an out-patient doc complaining of anxiety due to a recent break up with a boyfriend. Doc prescribes her an anti-anxiety med, she returns in 3 months doing well, so he renews the Rx. This continues....she becomes medically dependent on the med, has no complaints.....guess what...this nice doc now has a long term patient. Wouldn't it have been nice if the doc had given her a very short term Rx and referred her for relationship counseling. Unfortunately, this is not the way medical practices are built....out-patient docs need good return paying customers. I have more complaints about what goes on in out-patient medicine than in a hospital setting.

Taz

ICU psychosis is a real thing, and may persist even after step-down; you might want to ask his regular doctor about it:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national ... hosis.html
http://www.medicinenet.com/icu_psychosis/article.htm
http://www.medpagetoday.com/CriticalCar ... Care/42029
http://psychiatry.stanford.edu/Psychoso ... CU-CCC.pdf

I have done some research & yes, I do know ICU psychocis is very real. I wasn't there but still think after the 1st dose, they should have stopped & switched to another drug. Can't change the past & I'm happy to report he seems to be doing better. Burn is healing but his 02 requirements are still staggering. The effects of the drug are beginning to wear off (after about a week), and he is now eating, no longer on a feeding tube.

Thanks for all your help & support. I know this was way off topic, but I was panicked & desperate for some answers, which all of you who posted have helped me with tremendously. Now, I'm just going to get myself of a 'go the the rehab' schedule for both of them. My 'forum friends' have helped me thru this & I can't thank you enough.

Jen