Intro, Cleaning Habits, etc.

Julie wrote:Can someone please explain to me the logic of washing out the hose? The hose that blows ordinary, room air that you breathe all the time when not on Cpap, and that is then put through 1 or 2 filters in the machine and into your resp. system just like it is in the daytime? I really would like to understand your reasoning... really.

AND......to take Julie's thoughts a step further.......
WHY do people feel the need to DRY the hose after they washed it? You're just going to put moist air back through it again right away. When I see people post that they let their hoses hang to dry for a week, I wonder why the Hell they washed it to begin with. Hanging it in unfiltered room air is just going to expose it to potential "contaminants'......which is what the "cleaning" was supposedly about to begin with.

I've been saying this for years....... IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO WASH IT, DO IT IN THE EVENING BEFORE BEDTIME AND THE EXCESS HUMIDITY WILL BE ADDED BACK INTO THE AIR FROM YOUR HUMIDIFIER.
You thus eliminate the nonsensical reason for drying it.


Den

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Julie wrote:Can someone please explain to me the logic of washing out the hose?

I haven't found any research or studies either way: 1) Washing and disinfecting CPAP hose and mask measurably reduces risk of contamination, or 2) Not washing and disinfecting CPAP hose and mask leads to measurably increased risk of contamination. No evidence other than anecdotal to suggest washing is not required. I have not read a story on these forums of how lack of hygiene has caused a sickness.

The logic is that you touch the hose, attach the hose to your face, and breath into the mask and connecting hose for many hours. Are your hands, face, and bodily fluids free of contaminants? No.Therefore bacteria can grow and build up in this environment and ultimately lead to infections, especially in airway passages and lungs. Repeating this process day after day increases risk. You are unable to quantify the risk. Me either. I don't care for anecdotes.

SleepWrangler wrote:

Julie wrote:Can someone please explain to me the logic of washing out the hose?

I haven't found any research or studies either way: 1) Washing and disinfecting CPAP hose and mask measurably reduces risk of contamination, or 2) Not washing and disinfecting CPAP hose and mask leads to measurably increased risk of contamination. No evidence other than anecdotal to suggest washing is not required. I have not read a story on these forums of how lack of hygiene has caused a sickness.

The logic is that you touch the hose, attach the hose to your face, and breath into the mask and connecting hose for many hours. Are your hands, face, and bodily fluids free of contaminants? No. Repeating this process day after day increases risk. You are unable to quantify the risk. Me either. I don't care for anecdotes.

You may touch the outside, but you don't touch the inside (unless you're cleaning it). All the passes through the hose is clean, filtered air. "Contaminants" that may end up in the HH tank cannot be carried out with water vapor molecules because the water vapor molecules are too small.
The more scrubbing and drying the inside only increases the likelihood of "contaminants" being left inside the hose. If the hose isn't disconnected for any length of time, there shouldn't be much chance of anything remaining in there.

People just need to do some searching of past discussions about this on the forum and then make up their own minds.
In other words, do what you feel comfortable with. But, if at some point, it seems like a waste of time and money, it probably is.


Den

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Wulfman... wrote:You may touch the outside, but you don't touch the inside (unless you're cleaning it). All the passes through the hose is clean, filtered air.

Here is where I am having an issue: ever have a drippy nose? I wonder where that discharge goes when you are wearing a mask and hose? Major concern for me because I have a big drippy nose.

SleepWrangler wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:You may touch the outside, but you don't touch the inside (unless you're cleaning it). All the passes through the hose is clean, filtered air.

Here is where I am having an issue: ever have a drippy nose? I wonder where that discharge goes when you are wearing a mask and hose? Major concern for me because I have a big drippy nose.

There's way too much air pressure coming in for you to be able to blow anything back into the hose of a running machine.


Den

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And, "no", I don't ever recall having a drippy nose in nearly nine years of therapy. I do nasal cleansing before bedtime and that pretty well takes care of any congestion for the duration.


Den

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First of all, you should use a tissue right before clipping the last mask hook on when already lying down. Second, make sure your humidifier is not turned up too high. And third, I've had allergic rhinitis my whole life and since I've been on Cpap, at least at night, symptoms all disappear - at least my nose is dry, not 'too' dry, just that tiny bit more so than it would be without Cpap air passing through... and I haven't had a cold in decades.

Wulfman... wrote:

Julie wrote:Can someone please explain to me the logic of washing out the hose? The hose that blows ordinary, room air that you breathe all the time when not on Cpap, and that is then put through 1 or 2 filters in the machine and into your resp. system just like it is in the daytime? I really would like to understand your reasoning... really.

AND......to take Julie's thoughts a step further.......
WHY do people feel the need to DRY the hose after they washed it? You're just going to put moist air back through it again right away. When I see people post that they let their hoses hang to dry for a week, I wonder why the Hell they washed it to begin with. Hanging it in unfiltered room air is just going to expose it to potential "contaminants'......which is what the "cleaning" was supposedly about to begin with.

I've been saying this for years....... IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO WASH IT, DO IT IN THE EVENING BEFORE BEDTIME AND THE EXCESS HUMIDITY WILL BE ADDED BACK INTO THE AIR FROM YOUR HUMIDIFIER.
You thus eliminate the nonsensical reason for drying it.


Den

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Because a lot of people don't use a humidifier.

surf_rower wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:

Julie wrote:Can someone please explain to me the logic of washing out the hose? The hose that blows ordinary, room air that you breathe all the time when not on Cpap, and that is then put through 1 or 2 filters in the machine and into your resp. system just like it is in the daytime? I really would like to understand your reasoning... really.

AND......to take Julie's thoughts a step further.......
WHY do people feel the need to DRY the hose after they washed it? You're just going to put moist air back through it again right away. When I see people post that they let their hoses hang to dry for a week, I wonder why the Hell they washed it to begin with. Hanging it in unfiltered room air is just going to expose it to potential "contaminants'......which is what the "cleaning" was supposedly about to begin with.

I've been saying this for years....... IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO WASH IT, DO IT IN THE EVENING BEFORE BEDTIME AND THE EXCESS HUMIDITY WILL BE ADDED BACK INTO THE AIR FROM YOUR HUMIDIFIER.
You thus eliminate the nonsensical reason for drying it.


Den

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Because a lot of people don't use a humidifier.

I don't know about "a lot", but for those that don't, there's no wet environment for things to "grow". Everything is "dry" and shouldn't need to be cleaned or dried.


Den

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Well my two cents worth...

I've been on CPAP 14 yrs & fully believe in strengthening my immune system my making sure to expose myself to germs.

I've never washed a hose, just change when they wear out or if I am extremely ill (pneumonia). I have used mask wipes on rare occasion, washed masks when I first started, but soon lost that habit. I use distilled water now. I had been using tap before finding this forum, which convinced me of the benefits of using distilled. I usually top off my tank, every few months I drain & rinse.

That's my cleaning routine & I'm probably going to catch some flack from those who see problems with my routine, but I think each person has his/her own level of comfort with how they clean CPAP equipment. I'm comfortable with mine. I'm of the same school of thought many are - germs exist, better to teach our bodies to fight them. Many of you, including the OP are more comfortable with cleaning more often, and thoroughly.

Either way, who knows what is 'correct'?

Jen

Wulfman... wrote:WHY do people feel the need to DRY the hose after they washed it?

Well, I suppose because the long-held view that passive humidifiers cannot aerosolize water is not always correct and thus a wet hose may trap and provide an ideal home for bacteria to grow. Hydrophobic breathing-circuit filter positioned between the humidifier and face-mask tubing reduce the risk but I don't think our devices have one do they?

Has this study been obviated somehow? Filters Reduce the Risk of Bacterial Transmission from Contaminated Heated Humidifiers Used with CPAP for Obstructive Sleep Apnea http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556912/

SleepWrangler wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:WHY do people feel the need to DRY the hose after they washed it?

Well, I suppose because the long-held view that passive humidifiers cannot aerosolize water is not always correct and thus a wet hose may trap and provide an ideal home for bacteria to grow. Hydrophobic breathing-circuit filter positioned between the humidifier and face-mask tubing reduce the risk but I don't think our devices have one do they?

Has this study been obviated somehow? Filters Reduce the Risk of Bacterial Transmission from Contaminated Heated Humidifiers Used with CPAP for Obstructive Sleep Apnea

I've seen that (biased) "study" before. I have a copy of it.

Read the disclosure statement:

Disclosure Statement
This study was funded by Pall Corporation. All authors are, or were at the time of the study, employees of the Pall Corporation.

Now, if you look up the Pall Corporation, you'll find that they're a company that MAKES FILTERS.


Den

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Den, I am curious what you find biased...

Do you find the people that collaborated on the paper have a bias one way or the other?
Is it biased that they used ResMed equipment?
Is the selection of microorganisms biased?
Is their method of measuring colonies of microorganisms biased?
Is it biased that they used ISO 9001 calibration standards to calibrate their equipment?
Is the use of 20 cm pressure biased?
Is the use over 10 hours biased?
Is the use of Prism and Excell for the statistical analysis biased?

Or...

Is your bias comment based upon a filter company that has the equipment for testing lets a group of people use it on the weekends to conduct a test and puts their name on the paper? I am sure they look at this as a possible benefit for another line of filters, but am not sure this taints the value of the study.

I know this study challenges your long held view that passover humidifiers do not aerosolize water, but that idea is being shown not to be true. I have shown you with minimal equipment how you can verify the transportation of salt ions and you seem to have a hard time with that as will. Is my test also biased? My test is easy to judge because I gave you all the materials needed to run the test on your own. I also invited you to run the test and compare notes but that was too much bother.

I think you should have an open mind and voice your concerns on the merits of the test and not on the facility where the tests were conducted.

Did I miss something? Is your general bias that an aerospace filter company shouldn't run tests and publish papers or is there something specific that they missed?

HoseCrusher wrote:Den, I am curious what you find biased...

Do you find the people that collaborated on the paper have a bias one way or the other?
Is it biased that they used ResMed equipment?
Is the selection of microorganisms biased?
Is their method of measuring colonies of microorganisms biased?
Is it biased that they used ISO 9001 calibration standards to calibrate their equipment?
Is the use of 20 cm pressure biased?
Is the use over 10 hours biased?
Is the use of Prism and Excell for the statistical analysis biased?

Or...

Is your bias comment based upon a filter company that has the equipment for testing lets a group of people use it on the weekends to conduct a test and puts their name on the paper? I am sure they look at this as a possible benefit for another line of filters, but am not sure this taints the value of the study.

I know this study challenges your long held view that passover humidifiers do not aerosolize water, but that idea is being shown not to be true. I have shown you with minimal equipment how you can verify the transportation of salt ions and you seem to have a hard time with that as will. Is my test also biased? My test is easy to judge because I gave you all the materials needed to run the test on your own. I also invited you to run the test and compare notes but that was too much bother.

I think you should have an open mind and voice your concerns on the merits of the test and not on the facility where the tests were conducted.

Did I miss something? Is your general bias that an aerospace filter company shouldn't run tests and publish papers or is there something specific that they missed?

You're kidding........right???

Even passover humidification puts water vapor into the air I breathe during the night. The water level in my tank goes down and I have to add more every few nights to bring it back up to the full line.

I've also posted links to articles which say that viruses and bacteria cannot be carried out of heated humidifiers with water vapor.

You see what YOU want to see and I see what I believe to be true.


Den

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I agree that water vapor doesn't carry microorganisms. What I don't agree with is that blowing air over water doesn't aerosolize the water. The aerosol can carry microorganisms.