cpap compliant, great data, still waking often

Billyc17,

You mentioned in first post that you are a back sleeper. Since most people experience snoring on their backs but snore much less when side sleeping, is there any possibility you might try to train yourself to stay off your back? There are a variety of methods - propping with pillows, sewing a tennis ball in a pouch to the back of your pyjama, etc.

Eliminating most of your snoring by a positional change could be a game changer with your pressure requirements and overall therapy.

Good luck...

I have been using APAP for 18 months, 100% compliant, AHI under <1. My pressure is 13-18 with a med of 16.50ish. I still wake up every 90 minutes - 2 hours. It is so frustrating. I do have RLS, and about 6 months ago started Klonopin which completely cures my RLS symptoms. I don't blame the Klonopin for the frequent arousals because I have been having the arousals for 8 YEARS!! I have not slept threw the night in 8 years. The most I have ever slept in one go is almost 4 hours and that was a one time miracle. My doctor just shrugs it off because my AHI is good and she says it's normal to wake up after each sleep cycle. Well maybe so, but I'd sure like to sleep threw the night, or maybe only get up once if that. If anyone finds a solution to this problem please let me know. And obviously I practice the good sleep hygiene, lights out, cold room, loose clothes, light covers, no eating before bed, no caffeine at night, etc...

Java wrote:I have been using APAP for 18 months, 100% compliant, AHI under <1. My pressure is 13-18 with a med of 16.50ish. I still wake up every 90 minutes - 2 hours. It is so frustrating. I do have RLS, and about 6 months ago started Klonopin which completely cures my RLS symptoms.

These are likely NORMAL post REM wakes.

Even people without any sleep problems at all ofen wake up very briefly after the end of each REM cycle. And REM cycles tend to occur every 90-120 minutes or so.

The thing is: In a person with no identifiable sleep problems, the person wakes up momentarily, checks out that there is nothing "wrong" and immediately returns to sleep. Since the wake is typically shorter than 5 minutes in length, they may not even remember the wake in the morning.

So one of the best things you can do about these wakes that occurring every 90-120 minutes is to assume that they're normal post REM wakes and (literally) not stress out about them. Whatever you can do to NOT focus on them and NOT increase your wakefulness so you prolong the length of the wake excessively is really the best way of dealing with them.

So: What do you you as soon as you find yourself awake in the night? Do you immediately look at the clock? Do you immediately start worrying about the fact that you are awake (again)? Do you worry that it's going to take a while to get back to sleep? Does your mind immediately start "racing"?

My doctor just shrugs it off because my AHI is good and she says it's normal to wake up after each sleep cycle. Well maybe so, but I'd sure like to sleep threw the night, or maybe only get up once if that. If anyone finds a solution to this problem please let me know. And obviously I practice the good sleep hygiene, lights out, cold room, loose clothes, light covers, no eating before bed, no caffeine at night, etc...

Listen to your doc.

Right now you are most likely doing SOMETHING during each of those post REM wakes that makes them last at least 5-10 minutes in length just so you CAN remember them in the morning so that you can then WORRY about them.

One of the hardest things I've had to grapple with is the idea of "letting go" about obsessing and worrying about the nightly quality of my sleep. When I started PAP back in Sept 2010, it triggered a lot of very severe problems for me, including both a seemingly intractable case of insomnia and a significant shift in my sleep period (delayed sleep phase problems). It took a lot of hard work to rein in these problems. But after doing that work I wound up continuing to obsess about every little wake that showed up in my data for a long, long time. Since March, I've consciously worked on taking a "vacation" from the sleep journalling and the worrying about trying to fix the last of my sleep problems. And as I've quit obsessing quite so much about the problems, they've become less problematic.

Am I sleeping soundly every single night at a time that I'd like to? No, not really---I still have my bad nights once or twice a week (at most). But on MOST nights, I sleep soundly enough---I remember 0-2 wakes, even though my data shows more than that. (I routinely turn my machine OFF and ON at every wake due to aerophagia issues, so the wakes show up in the data even though I don't remember most of them .) I don't worry about those unremembered wakes that show up in the data anymore---they're usually post-REM and cycling the machine OFF and ON did what I wanted it to do: It let me get back to sleep within a minute or two of waking instead of lying there worrying about getting aerophagia; hence I don't remember them and they have little or no impact on the overall quality of my sleep. And on MOST nights I'm getting sufficient sleep for me to feel decent the next day.

And as I've learned to quit worrying about trying to fix the remaining sleep problems, I've also noticed that the good nights are becoming the "norm" rather than the exception. It's not that I'm tracking them; its just that most mornings I'm waking up and I'm NOT immediately thinking about how bad the sleep was anymore.

So: What do you you as soon as you find yourself awake in the night? Do you immediately look at the clock? Do you immediately start worrying about the fact that you are awake (again)? Do you worry that it's going to take a while to get back to sleep? Does your mind immediately start "racing"?

I used to wake up, check the clock, think about everything on my to-do list for the next day and I realized that was bad and wrong. So for the past year I wake up, don't look at any clocks, don't touch my cell phone, but I do go pee and get a sip of water. Then I get back in bed and fall asleep within 30 seconds. If I don't get up and go pee I will literally lay there wondering if I have to pee, trying to talk myself out of it, then thinking I do have to pee, until finally I realize it would be easier to just get up and pee instead of laying there fighting in my head about it. Then I get the sip of water because the APAP makes my mouth so so dry and I have the humidity on 4. I'd run it on 5 but it runs out of water before the night is threw and smells like burning metal or something gross.

Hi guys, I have a similar situation but a little different. AHI<2, leaks well controlled, APAP with pressure around 17, average about 6 hours of sleep at night. But just like clockwork, I will have a great night feeling just so awesome in the morning then surely the next night I will wake up once or twice during the night and feel CRAPPY the whole day which is associated with chest pain. Then I will have a good night with no change in the data. Been going on for about 3 months now. Needless to say still looking for solutions.

Have you seen a doctor? Not everything is about Cpap, though using Cpap may bring it to light... at least look into it.

Have you been checked for GERD ('silent GERD' can be an issue that arouses people when sleeping, like apneas do, but they're not aware of it otherwise, and possibly you're having reflux with heartburn the next day... but I wouldn't assume it's 'the' answer either without knowing more, though if raising the head of your bed on 4-6" blocks makes a difference (as it does for many people), then you might have caught the problem.

wroy wrote:I will have a great night feeling just so awesome in the morning then surely the next night I will wake up once or twice during the night and feel CRAPPY the whole day which is associated with chest pain. Then I will have a good night with no change in the data. Been going on for about 3 months now. Needless to say still looking for solutions.

Any thing that can be described as "chest pain" needs to be checked out by your doctor.

As Julie says, not everything is related to CPAP and your treated OSA. Since this represents a NEW change, it's well worth telling your PCP about it.

Just so that its said.... Chronic pain can also cause wakeups, at least it has for me