Canadians Being Truthful About Socialistic Medical Care

The Choker wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fexz8Ij-OBQ

This is hilarious. Paul Krugman tries to make a point that the Canadian health care system is great, asking the question "How many Canadians in here think their health care system is terrible?"

It turns out almost all of them did!

Paul Krugman is a fraud!

(I know, you have known that for years.)

Who really are these people all posting here about how great Canadian socialized health care is? Something funny is going on in this forum.

Hey I have a bridge in Brooklyn, NY and some great land in Florida to sell! You are just to sucker to spring for it!

That was some well designed scientific survey you got there - not.

I'm surprised at the response he got because most Canadians do like our health care system; there's no doubt about that. Note that, in saying this, I'm not assessing it or passing judgement on it, only observing that most Canadians do like it, warts and all.

OMG why do you have such a deranged obsession with this issue! Over and over and over... Britain is dumb. Canada is dumb. Australia is dumb..... Please, go throw a stone -- every civilized country in this world has a similar system. The whole world just must be so stupid.....

Sheesh! Why don't you get hooked on Doctor Who or golf or football something. Would be certainly more interesting to chat about.

Perhaps there has been a little too much severe apnea in your life. Too many hits to the melon.

Merry Christmas everyone! -- And may your New Year be bright and filled with hope and joy and good tidings! And good health!

I'm feeling a little guilty for how much of our health care I used this year. First with a thyroid tumour with scans, tests, appointments and finally surgery (benign). Then 2 cataract surgeries and the last 4 months surgery, chemo for breast cancer and then home care nurses to my home daily and then recently twice a week, home support workers to help with personal care, shopping, cleaning, lunches etc. and it didn't cost a dime. I also have access to nutrition classes, counselling, relaxation classes and groups....all free.

I do understand that this thread is not about our great health care system here. It is a rant by someone who appears to be unstable. Just thought I would take an opportunity to be one person who thinks our system works and hopefully the US will join the rest of the world soon with universal health care. No system is perfect but this seems to be working for many and has for a long long time.

Glad you got the care how and when you needed. I am happy to have my taxed dollars put into the pot to help folks out like you when they need it. It just makes for a stronger and more productive society.

SleepyBobR wrote:I'm surprised at the response he got because most Canadians do like our health care system; there's no doubt about that. Note that, in saying this, I'm not assessing it or passing judgement on it, only observing that most Canadians do like it, warts and all.

It is all in how you frame the question. Everybody dislikes parts of it and thinks they know how to fix it. Ask the question right and it will sound like everyone hates it. "When did you stop beating your spouse?" A huge part about polling is asking the question. Ask it a certain way and the poll will always support your ideas.

Elle wrote:I'm feeling a little guilty for how much of our health care I used this year. First with a thyroid tumour with scans, tests, appointments and finally surgery (benign). Then 2 cataract surgeries and the last 4 months surgery, chemo for breast cancer and then home care nurses to my home daily and then recently twice a week, home support workers to help with personal care, shopping, cleaning, lunches etc. and it didn't cost a dime. I also have access to nutrition classes, counselling, relaxation classes and groups....all free.

I do understand that this thread is not about our great health care system here. It is a rant by someone who appears to be unstable. Just thought I would take an opportunity to be one person who thinks our system works and hopefully the US will join the rest of the world soon with universal health care. No system is perfect but this seems to be working for many and has for a long long time.

Good to know our money is put to good use. I would never want anyone to be without the care they need.

"Breaking Bad" - the Canadian version would be half an hour long. Guy finds out he has cancer. He has it dealt with, gets therapy and goes back to work and starts a fund raiser to to help with cancer research and becomes famous.

Thank you Blackspinner, I love the breaking bad analogy. So true.

BTW I intend to lay low on using the system for some time. This was my "sick" year. DONE.

Canadian here.

Our system has its advantages, in particular catastrophic care won't cost you your life savings, or much at all. My brother-in-law's wife had very premature twins (born at 25 weeks.) After a 250 km emergency air ambulance transfer to an available facility in Kingston, the twins spent the first three months of their lives under 24-hour, level 4 neonatal intensive care and another four months in a level 3 facility closer to home. My father-in-law estimated by their first birthday they had received $750,000 to $1 million in care. The province paid for everything except parking for visitors. The twins are six years old now and doing fine. Not bad considering they each weighed 2 lbs at birth. As an aside, both my kids were by C-section (at term) with my wife staying in the hospital for 5 days afterwards. Didn't cost me a cent out-of-pocket. Except for parking.

Our system has its disadvantages, in particular less critical care, which puts you on a wait list. My wife hurt her knees in a half-marathon. She was on a three-month waiting list for an MRI, and even then the MRI was scheduled at 3 am (seriously.) During that period she had a difficult time walking.

As for my OSA, I've posted elsewhere about my experience. I've been through two sleep studies, a six-week APAP trial, heart tests, and two visits to my GP -- and the province paid everything. After my titration study I picked up a CPAP + mask for $1700. The province paid $780. The rest was covered by my Company's insurance. I haven't spent a cent out of pocket, and I'm having a good night sleep for the first time in decades.

But it is not true that we enjoy "free" healthcare. It costs the government a fortune. I'm paying for it through my taxes. The Ontario government spent $48 billion on healthcare last year for a province of 13 million people (Ontario, if it were a US state, would be the fifth largest; smaller than Florida but larger than Illinois.) Scaled up to the population of the US, that's over $1.2 trillion per year. Very expensive.

At the risk of throwing gasoline on the fire, as a Canadian who is familiar with our system, I find the US healthcare system bewilderingly complex. I honestly believe US care is better than Canadian *if* you can find yourself top-drawer coverage. That's a big if. I also believe (without fully understanding how the US system works) that ACA / "Obamacare" is going to make things more difficult for a lot of people before they get better.

To piggy back on Ontario Cpap, Alberta does not fund cpap therapy or tests at all, but my employee benefits picked up 80% of the tab for everything. Each province handles it differently, as healthcare in Canada is provincial rather than federal (same for education).

Ontario CPAP has it right. Health care in Canada is at its best for urgent and/or catastrophic care. No one dies for lack of an immediate appendectomy and no one goes broke paying for their chemotherapy. The problems creep in with the obsession with making the care "free". Because there are no co-pays and no deductibles, the government pays for almost everything. It would be as if your car warranty included all regular maintenance such as oil changes, brake pads, filters etc., not just major repairs, with no deductible. Some car warranties do work this way but it all has to be rolled into the price of the car. Also, the obsession with single payer extends to an obsession with single supplier. The government doesn't just pay for everything, it supplies almost everything or sets the price when it doesn't. This prevents market forces from operating that would otherwise drive down costs and improve quality so the only way to control the burgeoning costs is by rationing the care, hence the waiting lists for anything that isn't urgent. And, of course, as Ontario CPAP points out, none of this is anything remotely close to free and the costs keep rising. Many believe the system to be unsustainable without some reforms to address the issues but the country is not ready for that at this point. Health care reform remains a political third rail in Canada and no one wants to go near it because, as I said before, most Canadians do like our system, warts and all.

SleepyBobR,

Has anything like instituting co-pays and deductibles been considered according to income? Obamacare has been set up on that basis for people getting subsidies.

And of course, implementing that type of system could be costly initially. But I wonder if eventually, it would save alot of money.

49er

SleepyBobR wrote:Ontario CPAP has it right. Health care in Canada is at its best for urgent and/or catastrophic care. No one dies for lack of an immediate appendectomy and no one goes broke paying for their chemotherapy. The problems creep in with the obsession with making the care "free". Because there are no co-pays and no deductibles, the government pays for almost everything. It would be as if your car warranty included all regular maintenance such as oil changes, brake pads, filters etc., not just major repairs, with no deductible. Some car warranties do work this way but it all has to be rolled into the price of the car. Also, the obsession with single payer extends to an obsession with single supplier. The government doesn't just pay for everything, it supplies almost everything or sets the price when it doesn't. This prevents market forces from operating that would otherwise drive down costs and improve quality so the only way to control the burgeoning costs is by rationing the care, hence the waiting lists for anything that isn't urgent. And, of course, as Ontario CPAP points out, none of this is anything remotely close to free and the costs keep rising. Many believe the system to be unsustainable without some reforms to address the issues but the country is not ready for that at this point. Health care reform remains a political third rail in Canada and no one wants to go near it because, as I said before, most Canadians do like our system, warts and all.

Yes, studies done by various think tanks and the like have made suggestions but there is little uptake at this point by politicians because of the potential for backlash. Most provinces do not even allow opting out of any kind so there is no alternative to the government system. That is why you hear about people going to the US for their MRI or whatever to avoid the wait. In most provinces, private clinics that charge directly for such services are not allowed as this is seen as instituting "American style two tier health care" even though such services, if allowed, would take the pressure off the government run system by removing people from the queue. Very political.

SleepyBobR wrote:Yes, studies done by various think tanks and the like have made suggestions but there is little uptake at this point by politicians because of the potential for backlash. Most provinces do not even allow opting out of any kind so there is no alternative to the government system. That is why you hear about people going to the US for their MRI or whatever to avoid the wait. In most provinces, private clinics that charge directly for such services are not allowed as this is seen as instituting American style "two tier" health care even though such services, if allowed, would take the pressure off the government run system by removing people from the queue. Very political.

Thanks for your reply.

Hmm, other countries that have similar type plans to Canada allow private insurance companies to operate.

Yup, it is always about politics no matter what your perspective is. That will sadly never change.

We pay premiums for health care. There is a monthly fee for the Medical Services Plan in BC. I'm not sure what other provinces charge but it likely isn't "free" in most.