Mouth dry (always mean Open Mouth in therapy)?

Jeannh wrote:I also always wake up with a painful dry mouth with my humidity at the max. I've reduced meds that might cause it, lifted the head of my bed, taped, chin-strapped, taped and chin-strapped, used Biotene rinse and gel - all to no avail.

In despair, after 87 straight nights on the mask, I slept two nights OFF. No dry mouth problems.!! My dentist is concerned about the impact of the dryness on my very expensive dental work. I looked at dental devices, but they don't work with my teeth.

I'm not willing to trade apnea problems for mouth problems. Now what?

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

I too tried all those other things you mention above, also without much improvement.

But this seems to be working for me. I have been wrapping this microfiber headband horizontally around my mouth, just under my nose, secure it in back with the included velcro, and then slip my Ruby chinstrap over it to hold it in place all night. The bottom of my Wisp inflates and seals against the microfiber just as if it was my own skin. For about 7 days down, I have cut my leaks way below the red line in ResScan and wake up without my previously persistent dry mouth.



It seems to work as well as taping but better for me due to my beard and mustache, and no ouch-factor removing it in the morning.

Might be worth a try.

Best wishes, Nate

Thanks- I'll try it! Love your creativity!

OK, here we are getting back on topic for this forum. This COULD be the reason why your CPAP therapy has not been working and your testosterone is still low.

Waking up with a dry mouth while on CPAP is a cardinal sign of mouth leak/jaw drop and breathing through your mouth while asleep on CPAP. I had this when I first started CPAP years ago and I actually felt WORSE sleeping on CPAP with a nasal mask than with no CPAP at all.

Have you not told your sleep medicine equipment support people offline about this? I told mine the first couple days and was allowed to try a chin strap first, which was worthless. After that I was switched to the full face mask, a Resmed Quattro full face mask. The first night I slept with it on I hated it, the next night I went back to my nasal mask which was even worse. I then realized I HAD to stick to the full face mask or this CPAP thing was not going to happen for me.

So I sat down one night, watched the official Resmed Quattro full face mask video, read all the instructions, took a few hours adjusting the mask. And went to bed on it. The next morning I woke up feeling restored for the first time in years, with no dry mouth or sore throat. It was like, a miracle or something.

Ive stuck to a full face mask (Quattro size medium) even since then. Ive tried a nasal mask once in a while since and every time I re-try a nasal mask my OSA symptoms come back in spades. Ive also tried a few other full face masks, like the Resmed Quattro FX full face mask, a Fisher and Paykel full face mask and one or two other full face masks. None handle the jaw drop I have like the good old original Resmed Quattro ORIGINAL.

Id highly suggest the Resmed Quattro original. Just make sure you get the right size mask for your face, that is very very important.

I bet if you get on the correct full face mask and start using it regular, your fatigue complaints will improve a lot.

One thing about these full face masks, the cushions wear out kinda fast. Three months for me and my Quattro cushions are normally worn out. Two months sometimes and they are worn out. Once the cushions wear out, I will get bad leaks and my therapy starts to totally suck and OSA symptoms start coming back.

Definitely, before you start something as drastic as TRT, try a good FFM that handles jaw drop well. I'd recommend the ORIGINAL Resmed Mirage Quattro FFM.

Eric

Ruinednose wrote:I wake up with mouth dry in middle of the night

Is that always because i open my mouth during treatment at night?
i tried taping mouth but it sure hurt my cheecks and feels weird.
I don't have a chin strap.

Should i buy chinstrap or better yet go with a full face mask.?
Does full face mask tend to leak more then nasal?

Look man, forget this "make your own chin strap" crap. Thats loser talk. Go to your equipment supplier and get yourself a GOOD Resmed brand full face mask, proper size for your face. Get an original Quattro. The Quattro FX does not handle jaw drop as good as the original,good old Quattro FFM.

I bet if you get on the right FFM, your fatigue will improve and your thinking will clear up.

Eric

ok ill talk to my DME to get one and try it out, the thing is my dme is with respironics and they have only one FFM so i guess thats really my only option as far as trying stuff out.
i will definetly get on it

From your descriptions on here, I'd bet money that simple mouth leak is causing your OSA to remain untreated. Its rare that someone who starts CPAP to report that they do not feel better not long after they begin CPAP therapy. One of the main "bumps" in early CPAP therapy is some people find out they are mouth leakers and need a full face mask. Some refuse to wear a full face mask or cant tolerate one due to claustrophobia. Thats the crowd that goes with the chin strap/nasal mask combo and it almost never works well. Neither does mouth taping, mouth taping is actually dangerous...no sleep medicine doctor will EVER recommend mouth taping for mouth leak.

I have never used a Respironics full face mask before, however Ive read Respironics makes some good gel full face masks. I dont know much about Respironics masks, although I do know Respironics likes to use gel in their masks a lot which I think is good, as it can mean you can often get a better seal without tightening up the straps as much.

Again, it is critical you get the right size full face mask. If I use a large Quattro, my therapy deteriorates fast. I need a medium Quattro. Nothing else. Period. Its the same way with other full face masks. You need to get properly fitted by an RT offline for the right FFM.

I bet your problems improve after you do that and start using a FFM regular.

Eric

Ruinednose wrote:ok ill talk to my DME to get one and try it out, the thing is my dme is with respironics and they have only one FFM so i guess thats really my only option as far as trying stuff out.
i will definetly get on it

My friend...i do not have OSA i have UARS.
I have at most 1 event a night fo OS and about 4 hypopneas.

SO the leak must not mean that its destroying my therapy.
however i will take your advice and get a FFM

SuddenlyWornOut45 wrote:From your descriptions on here, I'd bet money that simple mouth leak is causing your OSA to remain untreated. Its rare that someone who starts CPAP to report that they do not feel better not long after they begin CPAP therapy. One of the main "bumps" in early CPAP therapy is some people find out they are mouth leakers and need a full face mask. Some refuse to wear a full face mask or cant tolerate one due to claustrophobia. Thats the crowd that goes with the chin strap/nasal mask combo and it almost never works well. Neither does mouth taping, mouth taping is actually dangerous...no sleep medicine doctor will EVER recommend mouth taping for mouth leak.

I have never used a Respironics full face mask before, however Ive read Respironics makes some good gel full face masks. I dont know much about Respironics masks, although I do know Respironics likes to use gel in their masks a lot which I think is good, as it can mean you can often get a better seal without tightening up the straps as much.

Again, it is critical you get the right size full face mask. If I use a large Quattro, my therapy deteriorates fast. I need a medium Quattro. Nothing else. Period. Its the same way with other full face masks. You need to get properly fitted by an RT offline for the right FFM.

I bet your problems improve after you do that and start using a FFM regular.

Eric

Ruinednose wrote:ok ill talk to my DME to get one and try it out, the thing is my dme is with respironics and they have only one FFM so i guess thats really my only option as far as trying stuff out.
i will definetly get on it

I believe some things you say are ill informed, Eric.

Hi Guys,

I have used a Resmed S-8 in the past with no problems. I now have a Resmed S-9 escape thanks to Tricare. I manage to wake up 2 to 3 times a night to pee (most nights). The s-9 escape has to be turned off when I get up and on once I return. This 5 minute off and on appears to mess with the humidifier as I wake up in the morning with dry mouth and most of the water in the tank. The nights I sleep thru I am fine, no dry mouth and most of the water out of the tank. (Works as designed)

Any ideas as to how to explain the problem and a possible solution.


Equipment:
Resmed escape S-9
Humidifier H5i
Mask Swift FX

Eric just trolls, he is useless

Uh, that is not true. I do get irritated with some here as they do not seem serious about their therapy to me. but your description of waking up with an open mouth is exactly what I experienced in the early days of my CPAP therapy and a Quattro FFM fixed it and fixed it good.

I was not trolling you and honestly attempting to help you out.

Eric

Ruinednose wrote:Eric just trolls, he is useless

"Thats the crowd that goes with the chin strap/nasal mask combo and it almost never works well. Neither does mouth taping, mouth taping is actually dangerous...no sleep medicine doctor will EVER recommend mouth taping for mouth leak."

That is not correct. The majority of people use a nasal mask, and may add a chinstrap. Saying it almost never works is just wrong. With most people it DOES work.
Where have you heard mouth taping is dangerous? I have worked for several sleep physicians who do advise to use micropore to tape your mouth IF a chinstrap isn't effective, and on a case-to-case basis. To say a sleep medicine doctor would never recommend this is absolutely wrong.

In saying this, although a full face mask is bigger, it can actually be better for someone with claustrophobia. Knowing you can breathe through your mouth is actually calming. I've seen this probably a hundred times.
Start with a nasal mask, go to a full face mask if a nasal mask is not tolerated. Most people get along fine with a nasal mask. In fact, I recently had a lady who was convinced she could never breathe solely through her nose, so we tried a full face mask. Unfortunately no full face mask would fit adequately without some leak, which on the download was fine, but annoying to her. I sent her off with a nasal mask and a full face mask, and encouraged her to give the nasal mask a go, because it is much less likely to leak (less surface area).

She came back the next week in love with the nasal mask, didn't want a bar of the full face mask.

Everything is a case-by-case basis. There's no hard and fast rule, and I don't see my patients as just numbers. I treat them as people; some things work for some and not others.

You really shouldn't post things that may off-put somebody when you are misinformed. It isn't fair for people who are really giving it a go on this forum.

You are quoting my statements out of context. I full well realize that the majority of CPAP users get along just fine with a nasal mask and some use a chin strap for mild or minor mouth leak issues. That is fine and great and I wish I was one of those CPAP users. I'd love to be able to get by with a nasal mask, like a Resmed nasal Activa.

What I was saying is that if you are one of those people who DO have serious jaw drop/mouth leak issues, the nasal mask/chin strap combo almost never works. The full face mask is the thing that works for those who have SERIOUS jaw drop and mouth leak issues.

Resmed even says so on their website. They dont push "chinstraps" for serious mouth leak/jaw drop, they push full face masks and rightly so, because FFMs actually SHUT DOWN mouth leak and some of the FFMs (not all but some) control jaw drop.

Please do not repost things I post out of context in the future. Thank you.

As far as mouth taping, I have NEVER had a sleep medicine specialist recommend mouth taping. In fact, they all advise AGAINST mouth taping. In the USA, mouth taping is considered a major liability issue.

Off the record, you might be able to get some sleep specialists in the USA to say, "yeah give it a try." But here in the USA, mouth taping is not considered "safe." Although many American CPAP users try mouth taping with a nasal mask and from what Ive seen on forums, almost all people who try mouth taping end up on a full face mask sooner or later.

What the deal on mouth taping is outside the USA, I have no idea and do not care what other country's sleep medicine specialists recommend. Im an American and have an American centric perspective on the world.

Eric

Eric

sleepstar wrote:"Thats the crowd that goes with the chin strap/nasal mask combo and it almost never works well. Neither does mouth taping, mouth taping is actually dangerous...no sleep medicine doctor will EVER recommend mouth taping for mouth leak."

That is not correct. The majority of people use a nasal mask, and may add a chinstrap. Saying it almost never works is just wrong. With most people it DOES work.
Where have you heard mouth taping is dangerous? I have worked for several sleep physicians who do advise to use micropore to tape your mouth IF a chinstrap isn't effective, and on a case-to-case basis. To say a sleep medicine doctor would never recommend this is absolutely wrong.

In saying this, although a full face mask is bigger, it can actually be better for someone with claustrophobia. Knowing you can breathe through your mouth is actually calming. I've seen this probably a hundred times.
Start with a nasal mask, go to a full face mask if a nasal mask is not tolerated. Most people get along fine with a nasal mask. In fact, I recently had a lady who was convinced she could never breathe solely through her nose, so we tried a full face mask. Unfortunately no full face mask would fit adequately without some leak, which on the download was fine, but annoying to her. I sent her off with a nasal mask and a full face mask, and encouraged her to give the nasal mask a go, because it is much less likely to leak (less surface area).

She came back the next week in love with the nasal mask, didn't want a bar of the full face mask.

Everything is a case-by-case basis. There's no hard and fast rule, and I don't see my patients as just numbers. I treat them as people; some things work for some and not others.

You really shouldn't post things that may off-put somebody when you are misinformed. It isn't fair for people who are really giving it a go on this forum.

SuddenlyWornOut45 wrote:You are quoting my statements out of context. I full well realize that the majority of CPAP users get along just fine with a nasal mask and some use a chin strap for mild or minor mouth leak issues. That is fine and great and I wish I was one of those CPAP users. I'd love to be able to get by with a nasal mask, like a Resmed nasal Activa.

What I was saying is that if you are one of those people who DO have serious jaw drop/mouth leak issues, the nasal mask/chin strap combo almost never works. The full face mask is the thing that works for those who have SERIOUS jaw drop and mouth leak issues.

Resmed even says so on their website. They dont push "chinstraps" for serious mouth leak/jaw drop, they push full face masks and rightly so, because FFMs actually SHUT DOWN mouth leak and some of the FFMs (not all but some) control jaw drop.

Please do not repost things I post out of context in the future. Thank you.

As far as mouth taping, I have NEVER had a sleep medicine specialist recommend mouth taping. In fact, they all advise AGAINST mouth taping. In the USA, mouth taping is considered a major liability issue.

Off the record, you might be able to get some sleep specialists in the USA to say, "yeah give it a try." But here in the USA, mouth taping is not considered "safe." Although many American CPAP users try mouth taping with a nasal mask and from what Ive seen on forums, almost all people who try mouth taping end up on a full face mask sooner or later.

What the deal on mouth taping is outside the USA, I have no idea and do not care what other country's sleep medicine specialists recommend. Im an American and have an American centric perspective on the world.

Eric

Eric

sleepstar wrote:"Thats the crowd that goes with the chin strap/nasal mask combo and it almost never works well. Neither does mouth taping, mouth taping is actually dangerous...no sleep medicine doctor will EVER recommend mouth taping for mouth leak."

That is not correct. The majority of people use a nasal mask, and may add a chinstrap. Saying it almost never works is just wrong. With most people it DOES work.
Where have you heard mouth taping is dangerous? I have worked for several sleep physicians who do advise to use micropore to tape your mouth IF a chinstrap isn't effective, and on a case-to-case basis. To say a sleep medicine doctor would never recommend this is absolutely wrong.

In saying this, although a full face mask is bigger, it can actually be better for someone with claustrophobia. Knowing you can breathe through your mouth is actually calming. I've seen this probably a hundred times.
Start with a nasal mask, go to a full face mask if a nasal mask is not tolerated. Most people get along fine with a nasal mask. In fact, I recently had a lady who was convinced she could never breathe solely through her nose, so we tried a full face mask. Unfortunately no full face mask would fit adequately without some leak, which on the download was fine, but annoying to her. I sent her off with a nasal mask and a full face mask, and encouraged her to give the nasal mask a go, because it is much less likely to leak (less surface area).

She came back the next week in love with the nasal mask, didn't want a bar of the full face mask.

Everything is a case-by-case basis. There's no hard and fast rule, and I don't see my patients as just numbers. I treat them as people; some things work for some and not others.

You really shouldn't post things that may off-put somebody when you are misinformed. It isn't fair for people who are really giving it a go on this forum.

your so cool