Comparing insomnia programs

I wanted to see if anyone has tried these sites before I pay money myself. Please let me know if you have used either of these.

http://www.effortless-sleep.com/the-technology/
This is the cheaper of the 2

http://www.sleeptracks.com//overview/
While more expensive, this seems to offer a litte more.

Thanks in advance.

Hello Fmj,


First: I have not tried nor heard of either therapy. But, after a quick glance, I would be suspicious of both.

The first website you posted looks like they want to take your money. I don't see much offered. They state, "The Effortless Sleep Method™ Sleep Booster Tool is a state-of-the-art SMR (sensorimotor rhythm) brainwave synchronization recording."

What does this mean? Are they trying to impress you with wording. They offer a book and a bunch of CD's. It's cheap at only $39 so if you are a believer, I guess losing forty bucks wouldn't hurt you.

The second website looks more suspicious to me. The root of their therapy is "a brainwave reboot, a confidence reboot, and
A habit reboot. I really don't see much of anything with substance offered. I am super suspicious of companies that only place the positive reviews of their products and don't offer the consumer the advantage of seeing what ALL people who purchased their product actually think of it. The following is stated in small writing under all of the positive and not one negative review:

"We receive a lot of tes­ti­mo­ni­als, and some of them are posted here…"

Again, you will be purchasing one book and five CD's.

In summary: I haven't tried these programs. They look suspiciously like they simply want to lighten your wallet. But, I freely admit I may be wrong since I haven't had exposure to their material (and never will).

Take care,
TheWino

IMO (and giving each answer a broad leeway):

• Self-help insomnia programs are like diets-- they ALL work.
• Going to a behavioral sleep specialist will cost $100 an hour x 6 visits.
• Consequently, those programs are cheap by comparison.
• Read (and you may have to buy) everything from Arthur Spielman and Thomas Roth.
• The approach to insomnia is somewhat standardized, so get back to free research.
• Perhaps the real question is-- Are you committed?

fmj, is this insomnia a recent problem, or have you had it a long time? It can also be a circadian rhythm disorder.

fmj13

Before sending money anywhere, look for references on sleep hygiene practices. It may be that you are doing things the result in insomnia that you can stop doing.
We have a member, robysue, who has posted extensively on her insomnia problems and struggles. Perhaps there is something there that might be of help.

For some folks:
Eating/drinking anything with caffeine in it makes sleep worse.
Eating late at night can be a problem.
Strenuous exercise near to bed time can also be a problem.
Highly variable bed time can be a problem also.
Reading in bed, watching TV in bed, etc. doesn't help train you that bed is for sleeping so when you get in bed your body and mind don't automatically switch to "I'm going to sleep" mode.

Try keeping a log of what you eat/drink after noon each day, your exercise, if any, and your bed time for a week or so and see if anything pops out.

echo wrote:fmj, is this insomnia a recent problem, or have you had it a long time? It can also be a circadian rhythm disorder.

In addition to the excellent questions above, is your pap therapy optimized because that could also be a reason you're having trouble with insomnia?

Regarding the effortlesssleep.com site, I did buy the author's book before I realized that I had sleep apnea. She used to have insomnia herself and overcome it by simply deciding to live her life come heck or high water and not let it be ruled by insomnia. And there is alot of merit in that argument although at times, that can be easier said than done, particularly if you need to drive someplace and don't feel safe driving due to your lack of sleep.

Interestingly, she does not believe in sleep restriction therapy which is a main component of cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. She calls it torture.

Perhpaps you might see about getting her book from the library and see if it makes sense to you before spending any money on her program.

Not familiar with the other program.

Best of luck to you.

49er

Another thing that is not often mentioned is to de-stress your bedroom;
in other words, declutter ---vigorously! Even in the dark, collections that need to be organized will disrupt your sleep.
A clean open space is a place of peace. Be mindful of how your surroundings invade your consciousness.

I know and practice most of the basics of sleep hygiene. What I can say about my insomnia - even with the VPAP, I don't get enough deep sleep - I am aware a lot of the time. I normally don't have trouble falling asleep initially, but a number of nights, I will wake up in the middle of the night, usually for about an hour.

If you wake up at night and can't go back to sleep in 20-30 minutes,
Get up, go to another room, and do something quiet until you feel sleepy.
Then go back to bed.

JDS74 wrote:If you wake up at night and can't go back to sleep in 20-30 minutes,
Get up, go to another room, and do something quiet until you feel sleepy.
Then go back to bed.

Yes, but since it happens so often, something is wrong.

If your OSA treatment is confirmed to be therapeutic, you are on no meds known to cause sleep disruption, you don't have thyroid dysfunction, and you've done all the obvious things, then if you seem to move around a lot, consider if limb movements could be an issue. Periodic Limb Movement Disorder can cause shallow and fragmented sleep.

In addition to what kteague mentioned, I'd also look into getting a cortisol saliva test. High cortisol at night can cause sleep problems.

echo wrote:In addition to what kteague mentioned, I'd also look into getting a cortisol saliva test. High cortisol at night can cause sleep problems.

Hi Echo,

I would be very skeptical of these types of test as many seem like they are a ripoff. My reasoning for saying that many of the companies that administer these tests sell the supplements that allegedly relieve the problem.

49er

echo wrote:In addition to what kteague mentioned, I'd also look into getting a cortisol saliva test. High cortisol at night can cause sleep problems.

IMO in order for cortisol level testing to be informative in this case, one needs to track it throughout a day (Google > cortisol level > Images) as there is tremendous variation during the course of the day.

fmj13 wrote:I know and practice most of the basics of sleep hygiene. What I can say about my insomnia - even with the VPAP, I don't get enough deep sleep - I am aware a lot of the time. I normally don't have trouble falling asleep initially, but a number of nights, I will wake up in the middle of the night, usually for about an hour.

and

fmj13 wrote:

JDS74 wrote:If you wake up at night and can't go back to sleep in 20-30 minutes,
Get up, go to another room, and do something quiet until you feel sleepy.
Then go back to bed.

Yes, but since it happens so often, something is wrong.

Not necessarily. Some people simply have a two-part sleep pattern. There's some real evidence that prior to the introduction to artificial life two-part sleep was more of the cultural norm and it may be more "normal" from a biological point of view than our 21st century American view that we should get 8 solid hours of uninterrupted sleep each night. (See links at the bottom of this post)

But the real issue here is that you are bothered by this particular pattern of waking up in the middle of the night for about an hour.

You say you "know and practice most of the basics of sleep hygiene." Which sleep hygiene practices do you chose to ignore most of the time and why do you tend to ignore them? That might be the key to ending the troublesome middle of the night hour long wakes ...

Also what kinds of insomnia work have you done other than basic sleep hygiene? Have sleeping pills (prescription or OTC) ever been any use? Do you want to avoid them at all costs?

For self-help, you might want to work your way through Sound Sleep, Sound Mind by Dr. Barry Krakow. But be forewarned: His suggestions that are most directly applicable in your case are:

1. Figure out a way of being less aware of the time---starting with ditching the clock or at least turning it around to make it harder to see when you first wake up.
2. Not lying in bed when you're not asleep
3. Not worrying about an hour long wake, but accepting the fact that your body just doesn't want to be asleep and getting up and doing something relaxing (and fun) instead of allowing yourself to worry about the wake.

Links about two-part sleep:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16964783
http://www.history.vt.edu/Ekirch/sleepcommentary.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/0 ... 32060.html
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ht-anxiety
http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/two-sleep ... o-slumber/
http://slumberwise.com/science/your-anc ... -like-you/