Sleep apnea with no risk factors?

I saw an oral surgeon this afternoon and he pointed out that I have 16mm of space in my throat and they don't usually worry about sleep apnea unless its 10mm or less. I'm of healthy weight. My neck circumference is 15", which is a bit thick but less than the 17" risk factor. I don't smoke. What could be causing my sleep apnea then? He said he'd advance the jaw by 10mm so it's be 26mm. I have a 1.5mm anterior open bite, which we're thinking of correcting with TADS. My only thought is maybe that the anterior open bite is creating too much space for my tongue and I'm losing the suction that would normally keep it in place. I am male but only 33 years old. I don't drink but I do frequently have trouble breathing through my nose. I would guess a lot of people have these risk factors so what makes me special?

Could it be that your dentist sees a fat cheque in the future for doing the jaw advancement?

Seriously, I would not take a dentist's advice on what's basically a respiratory/neurological problem, but have you talked to your sleep doctor about what the dentist said? Do you have a copy of your study to see what they found - there has to be some reason they put you on Cpap.

Oral surgeon actually. PCP and sleep doctor think it's a decent option but last resort. My AHI is 55! I'm learning about the surgery for independent reasons. That would be a nice bonus but I'm perplexed about why I have it. Only thing I can come up with is neuromuscular problem? I'm a nocturnal clencher due to a pretty bad malocclusion and he said it's possible all the clenching is messing up my muscle coordination in my throat and that's causing the apneas.

balor123 wrote:I saw an oral surgeon this afternoon and he pointed out that I have 16mm of space in my throat and they don't usually worry about sleep apnea unless its 10mm or less. I'm of healthy weight. My neck circumference is 15", which is a bit thick but less than the 17" risk factor. I don't smoke. What could be causing my sleep apnea then? He said he'd advance the jaw by 10mm so it's be 26mm. I have a 1.5mm anterior open bite, which we're thinking of correcting with TADS. My only thought is maybe that the anterior open bite is creating too much space for my tongue and I'm losing the suction that would normally keep it in place. I am male but only 33 years old. I don't drink but I do frequently have trouble breathing through my nose. I would guess a lot of people have these risk factors so what makes me special?

I think that the first thing that you should do is to look at your vitamin D3 levels!

Those who are working with the D3 hormone (A.K.A. Vitamin D3) (e.g. Dr. Stasha Gominak, Michael F. Holick, Ph.D., M.D., Vitamin D Council) seem to be finding that the very low side of the “normal” range of 30-100 ng/L produces a range of symptoms including OSA, pain, and infection. All believe that a level lower than 50 ng/mL is not good and Dr. Stasha Gominak recommends 60-80 ng/mL for good health.

I find that I tend to over breath in the late fall and winter and that my nose grows stuffy if I do. This year I am supplementing D3 and doing some very short (2 minutes – no pinking!!) times in the gym tanning booth. I find it easier to breath eucapnically. I also see fewer times of “unstable over breathing” in the data from my CPAP.

It takes about six weeks to see the change.

Another thing you might look into is your metabolic health. It is interesting to me that many people who are normal body weight have fatty liver disease!! I think Dr. Lustig does a good if somewhat too technical job explaining what metabolic disease is, how it is generated by our food choices, and what to do about it (see: http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Chance-Beatin ... 59463100X/ ).

I haven't had it measured in a while but I took D3 supplements (3k IU I think) for two years. I've also been following a Paleo diet for about the same amount of time. I live in TX now so I don't imagine that sunlight is a problem anymore.

balor123 wrote:I haven't had it measured in a while but I took D3 supplements (3k IU I think) for two years. I've also been following a Paleo diet for about the same amount of time. I live in TX now so I don't imagine that sunlight is a problem anymore.

Some say we can only get UVB 10a to 3p (sun angle issues).

It is not easy to track what we eat and we tend to follow our instincts where food is concerned. The thing is they have turned "food" into an addictive substance. The book is good.

The only other thing that comes to mind is pollution.

The causes of apnea are not yet fully understood, nor do I expect that to ever be known, due to the nature of research.
Medicine, and scientists in general, look at coincidences and assume they are causes.
Often this is without testing. Too bad they let them publish, because then their colleagues also believe the same cr_p.
Science is driven by profit, not truth. They are not looking for what makes something happen,
but for a way to make money from it, hopefully without making it worse.

chunkyfrog wrote:The causes of apnea are not yet fully understood, nor do I expect that to ever be known, due to the nature of research.
Medicine, and scientists in general, look at coincidences and assume they are causes.
Often this is without testing. Too bad they let them publish, because then their colleagues also believe the same cr_p.
Science is driven by profit, not truth. They are not looking for what makes something happen,
but for a way to make money from it, hopefully without making it worse.

From all appearances they have left of caring about "making it worse" a long time ago.

Todzo wrote:It is not easy to track what we eat and we tend to follow our instincts where food is concerned. The thing is they have turned "food" into an addictive substance.

I'm looking forward to going back to eating meat and veggies all the time. Halloween left a bunch of Reese's PB cups in my house and I have no willpower for those

Todzo wrote:The only other thing that comes to mind is pollution.

I mentioned it in another thread but I think this one is massively underappreciated. That and home environments which promote sensitivities. It may just also be that not all humans are well adapted to living in all environments. My ancestors are European, for example, and central TX is known for its terrible allergies! That leads to nose breathing problems. That then leads to bruxism. The bruxism (and braqces) leads to a mouth guard being prescribed which results in poor tongue posture and jaw growth deformities. That then leads to more bruxism, sleep apnea, etc down the line. So far I haven't found many people who follow this pathology of problems.

Todzo: We are hoping.

chunkyfrog wrote:The causes of apnea are not yet fully understood, nor do I expect that to ever be known, due to the nature of research.
Medicine, and scientists in general, look at coincidences and assume they are causes.
Often this is without testing. Too bad they let them publish, because then their colleagues also believe the same cr_p.
Science is driven by profit, not truth. They are not looking for what makes something happen,
but for a way to make money from it, hopefully without making it worse.

One of the big problems is ethics. You can't experiment on humans these days.
Did you know that a lot of info on vitamins and nutrients were developed by experimenting on Native American kids in the 40's & 50's? Give one school supplements, another more food and nothing to the third? These were kids coming to school hungry or in some cases they were in residential schools.
Of course then there were the experiments done on 3rd world women to develop birth control pills.
Do you want to be the one on a placebo xpap machine for a few years to see what happens? Because someone has to be in the control group.

balor123 wrote:

Todzo wrote:It is not easy to track what we eat and we tend to follow our instincts where food is concerned. The thing is they have turned "food" into an addictive substance.

I'm looking forward to going back to eating meat and veggies all the time. Halloween left a bunch of Reese's PB cups in my house and I have no willpower for those

Todzo wrote:The only other thing that comes to mind is pollution.

I mentioned it in another thread but I think this one is massively underappreciated. That and home environments which promote sensitivities. It may just also be that not all humans are well adapted to living in all environments. My ancestors are European, for example, and central TX is known for its terrible allergies! That leads to nose breathing problems. That then leads to bruxism. The bruxism (and braqces) leads to a mouth guard being prescribed which results in poor tongue posture and jaw growth deformities. That then leads to more bruxism, sleep apnea, etc down the line. So far I haven't found many people who follow this pathology of problems.

One of my little hobbies is looking for the receded chin and other signs of small airway - in athletes. I know they are out there. I have only been looking for a few years so I know I will find one - - eventually.

An athletic lifestyle involves more than movement. Those guys and gals gotta eat!!! And they care very very much about what they eat. They eat for strength indeed!!!

So I have been pursuing an active lifestyle for several years now (up from about 20% to above 85%). So I just had some protein supplement, will eat some fiber, and care very much what I eat. I will make it a lot of fruits and veggies with much raw. There will be some fermented food (love Kimchi - mixed protein supplement with yogurt) which I believe to be good for the all important microbiome.

I think much of it is learning to take better care of ourselves.

So now I am off to the gym for several hours.

Well, that's not my problem. My mandible is actually slightly longer than my maxilla creating a tiny class 3 malocclusion. I've seen that receded chin though. They're not common but when you see one, well they're not pretty. I've observed that long face syndrome is pretty common. So are TMJ problems.

balor123 wrote:Well, that's not my problem. My mandible is actually slightly longer than my maxilla creating a tiny class 3 malocclusion. I've seen that receded chin though. They're not common but when you see one, well they're not pretty. I've observed that long face syndrome is pretty common. So are TMJ problems.

balor123 wrote:He said he'd advance the jaw by 10mm so it's be 26mm

Will you still be able to chew?

If this surgeon were to suggest the same surgery for me, I would run for my life!