OT: Humana Insurance fraud

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idamtnboy
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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by idamtnboy » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:01 pm

msla wrote:
cpapist wrote:No, it is not like an insurance policy. Insurance companies invest your money so they will be able to pay future claims.

The government takes your money as it comes in and spends it immediately. There is nothing there for future claims.
A staffer in my democrat senator's local office agreed with me that social security was based on Ponzi scheme economic planning.
Both of the above comments about Social Security are off base. Here are some comments I put together months ago in response to some scare mongering email I received.

We need to clear up an all too common misconception. Social Security was never intended to be, never has been, and probably never will be, a retirement investment program. It was established as the Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program. The official title for collecting contributions is the Federal Insurance Contributions Act. Funds not needed to support current benefits and operating expenses go into the Old Age and Survivors Insurance trust fund to be held to meet future expenses not met by the then current contributions. Supplemental Security Insurance provides benefits for the disabled and underage poor children. SS originally included, and maybe still does, payments to states to support unemployment insurance benefits.

The key operative word is "insurance." All insurance plans are based on an "in and out" funding scheme. Current insurance policy holders, whether it is for life (death) insurance, fire insurance, car insurance, liability insurance, or whatever insurance you can think of, pay into the fund to cover the losses suffered by other insurance policy holders. Excess income is stashed away to cover excessive future losses, or paid to policy holders as dividends, or paid to management as bonuses, or some combination of all three.

Social Security has always operated this way, and always will. It is financially impossible at this point to suddenly start investing contributions to pay for future retirement benefits because current benefits have to be paid somehow.

The idea of SS being a retirement program has been allowed to exist because the concept of retirement benefits is politically a whole lot more palatable than is insurance. No one hates retirement benefits. Almost everyone hates insurance, especially when it is compulsory like car insurance. Insurance is seen mostly as money gone out the window. Payments into a retirement fund are viewed as belonging to the contributor.

I'm not sure why the hue and cry about the word "benefit." Benefit is used for all kinds of payments from all kinds of financial programs. The monthly SS check IS a benefit. The email I responded to conveys the wrong idea of SS benefits being "earned income." If your house burns down the money the insurance company pays you is a benefit, but it is not "earned income." You have no claim on the money without meeting the two requirements for filing a claim, namely your house burned down, and you paid for the policy. In the same vein no one has a claim on a SS retirement benefit check until they have met two conditions, one having been a contributor into the insurance pool, and two, reaching the age set by the rules whereby that person is entitled (there's that nasty word!) to file a claim.

Because of all the natural disasters of the past few years casualty insurance funds are in a squeeze. Everyone who contributed into them may not receive a payout as large as they expected, or need, to be made fully whole. If measures are not taken, the same type of squeeze will affect the Social Security funding scheme.

As long as Uncle Sam is good for its debts all the money put into the SS trust fund will be there for benefits payout. Arguably, the fund might be healthier today if the money had been invested in instruments other than G bonds. As an aside, taking all the money that comes into SS and investing it into commercial markets may not be wise. The massiveness of the funds could easily distort investment markets. The Board of the Federal Thrift Savings program, the retirement fund of Federal employees, is concerned about this issue. It's a whole lot smaller than the SS fund would be.

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SleepyBobR
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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by SleepyBobR » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:42 am

This article offers a good understanding of the true nature of the Social Security Trust fund and its solvency...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/ ... d-solvent/

Would make me a little nervous if I was dependent upon it or planned to be.

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idamtnboy
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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by idamtnboy » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:20 am

SleepyBobR wrote:This article offers a good understanding of the true nature of the Social Security Trust fund and its solvency...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/ ... d-solvent/

Would make me a little nervous if I was dependent upon it or planned to be.
Good article. However, Social Security is in a no more vulnerable position than are all holders of US Government debt. Eventually Uncle has to find the money to redeem the debt, or default on it. SS may be in a better position than say, the Chinese, because it would be more palatable to Congress to let the US default on bonds owned by the Chinese than to default on the bonds owned by our own people via the SS Trust Fund. But any default would most certainly crash our economy.

What's the Canadian situation with respect to a similar system? Is there an analogous retirement program there?

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SleepyBobR
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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by SleepyBobR » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:19 am

Yes, the Canada Pension Plan (CPP) is a contributory, earnings-related government pension plan. It forms one of the two major components of Canada's public retirement income system, the other component being Old Age Security (OAS), a non-contributory, means tested program for seniors. Other parts of Canada's retirement system are private pensions, either employer-sponsored or from tax-deferred individual savings (known in Canada as a Registered Retirement Savings Plan, much like your IRAs). The Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB) manages the CPP's assets (portfolio of equities, fixed income and other securities) on behalf of the CPP.

Changes have been made over the years to CPP and OAS such as raising contributions, raising eligibility age and means testing with claw-backs to keep them viable and sustainable and establishing an actual investment fund for the assets. For whatever reason, this hasn't been quite the political 3rd rail it seems to be in the US.

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msla
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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by msla » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:19 am

SleepyBobR wrote:The Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB) manages the CPP's assets (portfolio of equities, fixed income and other securities) on behalf of the CPP.
.
Is this somewhat a little more diversified than SS trust holding only US government issued promissory notes? From the latest SS trustees report "Asset reserves held in special issue U.S. Treasury securities grew from $2,678 billion at the beginning of the year to $2,732 billion at the end of the year." (emphasis added)

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SleepyBobR
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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by SleepyBobR » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:57 am

Yes. Didn't used to be but they made changes ten years ago or so as I recall.

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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by BlackSpinner » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:33 am

It is really interesting that people have focused on the social net rather then the insurance fraud.
Somehow it looks like the fact that a company is ripping of seniors and other fragile people is not half as important then whining about some government function.

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StuUnderPressure
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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by StuUnderPressure » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:24 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:Friends posted this on my facebook.
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3195872.shtml?cat=1
The Minnesota Attorney General is asking the federal government to investigate one of the state's largest health insurance providers, accusing Humana of a pattern of denying claims and overcharging folks on Medicare.

The Attorney General's office compiled several hundred pages of affidavits that it presented to the federal government on Friday. The office said it proves Humana has been improperly handling insurance claims by dozens of Minnesotans enrolled in its Medicare Advantage plans.
Well good thing the IRS is going to be the one in charge of Obamacare.
Might make someone think twice about committing fraud when the IRS is in charge.

Well, maybe not!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-576 ... ts-report/

http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/irs-staffe ... ack-taxes/

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Re: OT: Humana Insurance fraud

Post by cpapist » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:41 pm

Well good thing the IRS is going to be the one in charge of Obamacare.

Holey Moley! This bunch here will soon be calling for martial law to enforce Obamacare! SMH.